The most common 'cheat' used in DayZ...

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I will maybe use the ingame walkys but even than, I wanna have fun playing. I wanna talk about the last party I had or how stupid my boss is to my friends. And I won't use the walkys then cause I don't got a backpack full of batteries.

 

I've had mine on the last couple days while playing, my battery hasn't died yet. I think they either last a really long time or they don't consume any power yet.

[SubSt8 35]

To call any extra Voip a cheat is just ridiculous if the game doesn't provide the correct tools. For one there are no hand signals that teams COULD use, let alone a radio system that people could use. Even then games are STILL so limited (or broken) that teams wouldn't be able to communicate the same way we do IRL. 

There are movements that even my fatass can do IRL that we can't do in game, like peak OVER a wall or ledge, or scale a wall. Until they give us 100% realistic gameplay, teamspeak can and will never be a cheat. I get that we all want realistic game play but if the game doesn't deliver a system that allows us to do these things, we have to provide a system for ourselves.

Oh and a side note, someone said that turning up the gamma is cheating. Wut. Have you been outside at night before? It's not true darkness, I've been in true darkness. Stars and moonlight provide a great deal of light and once your eyes adjust you can see pretty well. Now if they introduce storms and those clouds block the sky, they could make it MUCH MUCH darker but until they MAKE the game more realistic, turning gamma up IS more realistic.

Edit: Also another note on the teamspeak thing. You have to have some way to be able to identify one player from the next easily. IRL we all look different, act different and these are clues that we use to identify people. Either introduce a more robust character creation or give teams an easy way to mark each other.


Tl;dr Game doesn't provide enough realistic tools to be able to call teamspeak/gamma cheating.

Edited January 28, 2014 by SubSt8

[GormFire 2]

TS, Ventrillo, ect.....  One of the major saving factors in any gamers MO.  The whole point is for people all over the world to be able to get together and have fun in one place.  Using a VoIP is how we all interact, the game is the forum in which we all find common ground.  Dumb Dumb Dumb to complain about it IMO. 

[Zombie Jesus 723]

 

You're free to cheat all you want. I just don't think it's justified in this games atmosphere. When you don't have your friends to lean on constantly & consistently, the game is a different beast, loneliness comes into play. After not seeing anyone for a long time you crave human contact, you set out on a journey to find another player to converse with. Except if you pull up teamspeak or steam chat, you never let yourself feel any of that.

 

I play lone wolf about 50% of the time and enjoy that feeling as well, but I guess most of the disagreements on this forum boil down to preference of the individuals. You guys think it is a cheat and many other players think you guys are too uptight. Both of us are probably right on a certain level, yes Voip gives people an advantage not in the game but thinking it is cheating is being uptight. 

 

Besides the fact that it is next to impossible to address from the developers it sort of reminds me of the constant arguing about 3PP and the ability of players to make choices. If you are actually playing with friends and want a straight up RP experience you are free to do that, what rubs people the wrong way is the fact that so many people want to put their preference and make it the standard for everyone else. Or they take their preference and label it the right way and everyone else is cheating. 

 

BTW I remember that episode of Walking Dead where Shane dies and then he hits respawn, that was a classic (hint it is a game). Is the respawn button cheating? Is knowing the map from experience cheating when you are a fresh spawn? 

 

Sigh, this forum is turning into gaming hipsters versus children and those in the middle who enjoy a tough survival game but want some semi enjoyable aspects to remain are caught in an endless loop of bad arguments. 

[SubSt8 35]

Nobody is here trying to take your freedoms away. Just because we think you're cheating, doesn't mean we're actively trying to stop you from doing so.

 

 

That's the whole point of this thread. To express how some of us think that it's cheating. We think it's bad for the game, and you guys shouldn't do it. You can call it meta-gaming instead, but it doesn't change the fact that we don't like it and think you should stop.

 

I don't accept this idea that dayz should be accessible to groups of friends. There is a valid way to find someone, you look for them. Think, Rick in the first season of the walking dead. He didn't jump on teamspeak and ask his wife and son where they were.

 

You're free to cheat all you want. I just don't think it's justified in this games atmosphere. When you don't have your friends to lean on constantly & consistently, the game is a different beast, loneliness comes into play. After not seeing anyone for a long time you crave human contact, you set out on a journey to find another player to converse with. Except if you pull up teamspeak or steam chat, you never let yourself feel any of that.

Your trying to inject realism in game where you can be shot multiple times then eat some food and heal the wounds away in an hour. In a game where there are LITERALLY walking dead. This game is still QUITE far from realistic and until the developers bring it to a state of realism using teamspeak is just making up for the lack of realism provided in the game.

I do take offense to you saying that using voip is cheating, I abhor cheating. But the simple fact that you are not your character you are playing IS cheating. As a "fresh spawn" you shouldn't have an extensive knowledge of the map. Heck most people probably couldn't figure out how to USE a gun, let alone zero the gun, reload it, load ammo into magazines or attach various attachments.

The point I am getting at is that 100% realism will never be accomplished in the game. They can provide actual radio's in game and the developers can state that using any third party voip is cheating, THEN it will be cheating. Until then though for you to say I am cheating because the game is lacking? Unfair.

Edited January 28, 2014 by SubSt8

[Sinphaltimus 262]

Wait, did he say Rick in walking dead didn't use teamspeak? Well Rick can't Sprint from city to city across half a continent non stop without getting tired either. WTF? Starving to death in a day? WTF? Oh wait, Zombies? WTF?

[Mdogg2005 447]

I play with my girlfriend, brother, and several friends.  Sometimes all at once.  We use Skype to coordinate where we are, how to meet up, etc.  It does not break my immersion in the slightest.  I also feel like having 2-6 people meet up without any communication whatsoever is dumb.

 

Also LOL "Playing with friends and meeting up with them is cheating" get the fuck outta here.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Mdogg2005

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Why do you guys want everyone to just accept your "meta-gaming" because it's not(or can't be) actively stopped? We can't stop people from excessively speeding, that doesn't mean it's good and should be encouraged and justified.

 

Am I not free to discourage the practice, the same way you guys are free to encourage it?

 

Stop taking offense to us calling you cheaters. If you really thought your actions were valid, I doubt you'd be getting so defensive about it.

 

 

 

I do think it's funny how i mention a part of a fictional show to give context to my point, and promptly get a lecture about realizm in dayz. No shane didn't respawn, and no rick didn't sprint from city to city. Because... like dayz, the walking dead is fictional. It's entertainment. It's not life and death. You don't have to be so paranoid about putting your virtual life at risk. You can be vulnerable in the hopes of being entertained. At least that's how I feel about dayz.

[Gerandar 212]

I will use whatever I can to get an advantage, play to win as it were.

[GormFire 2]

Oh Crap!!  the secret is out!!!   Dont tell anyone but us gamers/nerds actually have friends???  Who would have thunk??  

[janol 65]

Also LOL "Playing with friends and meeting up with them is cheating" get the fuck outta here.

 

There are in-game means for communication, you know. They are there on purpose. In a perfectly clear sense, constant external communication over the game is much like giving your self a free walkie talkie, which cannot be intercepted.

[SubSt8 35]

Why do you guys want everyone to just accept your "meta-gaming" because it's not(or can't be) actively stopped? We can't stop people from excessively speeding, that doesn't mean it's good and should be encouraged and justified.

 

Am I not free to discourage the practice, the same way you guys are free to encourage it?

 

Stop taking offense to us calling you cheaters. If you really thought your actions were valid, I doubt you'd be getting so defensive about it.

 

 

 

I do think it's funny how i mention a part of a fictional show to give context to my point, and promptly get a lecture about realizm in dayz. No shane didn't respawn, and no rick didn't sprint from city to city. Because... like dayz, the walking dead is fictional. It's entertainment. It's not life and death. You don't have to be so paranoid about putting your virtual life at risk. You can be vulnerable in the hopes of being entertained. At least that's how I feel about dayz.

In one sentence you call for everyone to voice their opinion and in the next you insult anyone who has a different opinion then you. You also failed to respond to anyone who responded to you, which makes me think you don't have an answer for those who bring up valid points. Oh I will stop being vague, you clearly dodged the points I was trying to make.

One more time: If the game doesn't provide the tools for realistic game play, you cannot expect players to not find those tools else where. And if the developers don't come out and clearly state "External Voip is cheating." then you calling players cheating is just your opinion and only matters to you. To which we are more than in our rights to be defensive about.

Discourage all you want but when you start insulting then you have an issue. Does external voip go against the games realism? Yes but it is a far stretch from cheating.

[tomroadrunner 69]

OP clearly states there's no winning this battle, but people still feel the need to say that if something can't be stopped, we should welcome it with open arms. I disagree. Just because we can lie cheat and steal, doesn't mean those things are good and should be defended.

 

Some people need to step back and think about why they get so defensive whenever third party voice software is even brought up. Even the slightest mention of it being negative sets people off on 'just a game' or 'can't be stopped' rants. We can't stop scammers in Africa from taking advantage of naive people, does that mean we should all move to Africa and scam people?

 

Radios are in-game, what is your excuse now player?

 

I love that you're using the fact that you don't have friends as a way to measure your in-game penis. You're turning something bad on your part into some sort of superiority complex, then erecting strawmen to defend your point.

 

You're perfectly welcome to feel like you're the only "real DayZ player", the rest of us are too busy enjoying ourselves with our friends to give a rat's ass.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

In one sentence you call for everyone to voice their opinion and in the next you insult anyone who has a different opinion then you. You also failed to respond to anyone who responded to you, which makes me think you don't have an answer for those who bring up valid points. Oh I will stop being vague, you clearly dodged the points I was trying to make.

One more time: If the game doesn't provide the tools for realistic game play, you cannot expect players to not find those tools else where. And if the developers don't come out and clearly state "External Voip is cheating." then you calling players cheating is just your opinion and only matters to you. To which we are more than in our rights to be defensive about.

Discourage all you want but when you start insulting then you have an issue. Does external voip go against the games realism? Yes but it is a far stretch from cheating.

 

I know it's crazy, some people embrace a difference of opinion, but still feel strongly about something. When people say "stop calling it cheating" that to me, is trying to censor my opinion that it is indeed cheating. Disagree all you want, but don't tell me to stop calling it cheating, when I clearly believe it is.

 

I fail to see how this game doesn't provide you the tools needed to communicate. Direct chat is available to everyone, walkie talkies are available to those who look for them. The game doesn't issue you a map on spawn either, that doesn't mean they expect you to go online and use that map. The devs aren't going to call loot maps or 3rd party voice software cheating because what's the point? They build this world for us to inhabit and we as a community have to decide what is cheating and what isn't. People have decided server hopping and combat logging is cheating, I'm just voicing my opinion on 3rd party voice software, if it changes even one persons views on the subject, it was worth the effort.

 

I'm sorry my opinion is insulting to you. I can't help but feel this way.

[Mdogg2005 447]

There are in-game means for communication, you know. They are there on purpose. In a perfectly clear sense, constant external communication over the game is much like giving your self a free walkie talkie, which cannot be intercepted.

 

Yeah so when I bought my girlfriend the game I shoulda just told her to yell on directional chat around the coast until I found her.

 

Come on you can't be that dumb.  In game means of communication mean jack shit to me if I have to spawn separately from the people I play with.  Also, not sure about others, but I use directional chat when I talk to people in-game.  Me being in Skype has no effect, adversely or otherwise, to effectively communicate with players I meet in game.

[tomroadrunner 69]

bad_mojo, you've demonstrated that you don't understand what freedom of speech means. No one is censoring you. Freedom of speech means you have the right to voice a myopic opinion, and it also means we have the right to call you a moron. There is no censorship happening here.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I love that you're using the fact that you don't have friends as a way to measure your in-game penis. You're turning something bad on your part into some sort of superiority complex, then erecting strawmen to defend your point.

 

You're perfectly welcome to feel like you're the only "real DayZ player", the rest of us are too busy enjoying ourselves with our friends to give a rat's ass.

 

The good old "you have no friends" dismissal. Tell me how you're just playing for fun, and it can't be blocked. To completely round out the avoidance of the actual subject.(In case you haven't been reading, it's about the circumvention of game mechanics being considered cheating.)

Edited January 28, 2014 by bad_mojo

[janol 65]

Yeah so when I bought my girlfriend the game I shoulda just told her to yell on directional chat around the coast until I found her.

 

Come on you can't be that dumb.  In game means of communication mean jack shit to me if I have to spawn separately from the people I play with.  Also, not sure about others, but I use directional chat when I talk to people in-game.  Me being in Skype has no effect, adversely or otherwise, to effectively communicate with players I meet in game.

 

Great, borderline insults from someone who can't seem to understand the meaning the word "constant". The point with that expression was excatly that surely you can agree to meet at a given place outside the game etc.

 

You using Skype has adverse effect on players who would have heard you speak, had you used the ingame communication like is intended.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

bad_mojo, you've demonstrated that you don't understand what freedom of speech means. No one is censoring you. Freedom of speech means you have the right to voice a myopic opinion, and it also means we have the right to call you a moron. There is no censorship happening here.

 

Repeatedly telling me to "stop calling it cheating" comes across as people telling me not to share my opinion. Obviously nobody here has the power to actually censor me(except the mods of course), but it's still annoying to constantly have to defend my opinion like that. People want me to use a neutral term "metagaming" while I want to bring attention to the negatives, so obviously the term I choose will be negative.

[Mdogg2005 447]

Great, borderline insults from someone who can't seem to understand the meaning the word "constant". The point with that expression was excatly that surely you can agree to meet at a given place outside the game etc.

 

You using Skype has adverse effect on players who would have heard you speak, had you used the ingame communication like is intended.

But I still talk to them anyway.  Why would me talking in Skype effect what happens in game?  People will bitch about anything, I swear to fuck.

 

Think of it this way.  If a group of people using Teamspeak stopped you and held you up.  Consider their Teamspeak chatter what their body language and eye / body / hand / head nod signals would be if we had the option for those in game.  They are at no advantage over someone not using Teamspeak.  You would just know you're about to be executed if they voiced it over directional as well as their Teamspeak.

 

Fucking Christ you people will literally bitch about anything.  Holy fucking shit go play a single player game if you don't want people to talk with each other.

[ruStanSc 9]

I think most of the people that are using Teamspeak also use ingame voice. The people that dont use ingame voice would instantly shoot on sight with and without teamspeak :)

Its not about teamspeak. Its all about the people!

[Mdogg2005 447]

Repeatedly telling me to "stop calling it cheating" comes across as people telling me not to share my opinion. Obviously nobody here has the power to actually censor me(except the mods of course), but it's still annoying to constantly have to defend my opinion like that. People want me to use a neutral term "metagaming" while I want to bring attention to the negatives, so obviously the term I choose will be negative.

It's because your opinion, frankly, is retarded.  People who server hop and people who combat log and people who ghost.  Those are cheaters.  People BS'ing with their friends in Skype or Teamspeak are not cheaters. 

[Mdogg2005 447]

I think most of the people that are using Teamspeak also use ingame voice. The people that dont use ingame voice would instantly shoot on sight with and without teamspeak :)

Its not about teamspeak. Its all about the people!

This.  As I mentioned, me using Skype with my friends has no hindrance on my ability to communicate in game with people I meet in game.

[SubSt8 35]

I know it's crazy, some people embrace a difference of opinion, but still feel strongly about something. When people say "stop calling it cheating" that to me, is trying to censor my opinion that it is indeed cheating. Disagree all you want, but don't tell me to stop calling it cheating, when I clearly believe it is.

 

I fail to see how this game doesn't provide you the tools needed to communicate. Direct chat is available to everyone, walkie talkies are available to those who look for them. The game doesn't issue you a map on spawn either, that doesn't mean they expect you to go online and use that map. The devs aren't going to call loot maps or 3rd party voice software cheating because what's the point? They build this world for us to inhabit and we as a community have to decide what is cheating and what isn't. People have decided server hopping and combat logging is cheating, I'm just voicing my opinion on 3rd party voice software, if it changes even one persons views on the subject, it was worth the effort.

 

I'm sorry my opinion is insulting to you. I can't help but feel this way.

Shall I take this to the next level? Sure why not. You are a piece of garbage human being because you think voip is cheating. Now before mods come in and close this thread or ban me, understand that is what YOU are calling ME when you claim I am cheating. You have no evidence to back up your claims, you are just making claims. If the developers said "X is cheating in our game" then you would have evidence to make your claims.

You are free to think that using third party voip goes against the nature of the game but when you use a specific insult, like cheating, then we can and will take offense when we don't believe it is cheating. Also if you want to still believe it is cheating, you can state it so without calling it cheating.

Cheating implies that the person is going out of their way to find an advantage over another player in the game by finding some third party system. (If were honest about this point, most people simply use third party voip for the convenience not because they are seeking an advantage.) People who use voip might honestly be using the program because the game is lacking. Proximity chat is FAR from realistic and last I checked the radios in game don't work. Proximity chat assumes that you are yelling at all times, trust me I can have a conversation in my house and know that my neighbors cannot hear me, or for that matter that people within the house cannot really make out what I am saying unless they are in the room. Also where are the hand signs that people could use to signal each other in high intensity situations. Where is the option to scale a wall, or simply look over the wall.

This game is trying to be realistic but still lacks a lot of realism.

[Mdogg2005 447]

Cheating implies that the person is going out of their way to find an advantage over another player in the game by finding some third party system. (If were honest about this point, most people simply use third party voip for the convenience not because they are seeking an advantage.) People who use voip might honestly be using the program because the game is lacking.

That is the biggest takeaway of the post.  Something I've been trying to say, myself.