Just 2¢ from someone who has used these weapons in his day job

[Yliparoni 7]

I tested out the M4 from the knee to 500 meters with the ACOG.

 

It's definitely possible to hit, although it seemed like the spread was close to 0,5m diameter at that range. (fired about 50 shots, I had a friend close by to see where the actual bullet hit.

 

I'm sure that's mostly due to the sway from shooting from the knee though - with a bipod I think I would have been more accurate.

[skusmc 10]

The bit about needing an AK windage tool is right on. My wife has a WASR 10 and I've learned that you CAN adjust it with a punch and hammer, but it won't be precise. IMO they should include the windage tool in the game as loot, and make the AK innaccurate until you find it.

That being said, once you get an AK sighted in they ARE reasonably accurate. Maybe 3-4 MOA accurate on average, which actually isn't bad for a service weapon. Once you find an AK windage tool ingame, or even as rare loot a side saddle scope mount, there's no reason an undamaged AK shouldn't be given that kind of accruacy.

 

The M16, undamaged, with an ACOG should be able to hit stationary torso targets at 500 meters every time without question. Marines on the rifle range are expected to be able to engage torso sized targets prone with iron sights at 500 meters.  

And ditto that M16 reliability is underestimated as well. I've fired tens of thousands of rounds out of the M16/Ar15 platform as a civilian and in the military, and I can't think of a single malfunction that wasn't my fault.

And I can vouch that com-block ammo can be crap. I've shot com-block surplus 7.62x54 and 8mm Mauser and I've had case eruptions on both. It's usually really rare in my expierence, though.

Good post. If realism is important in the game, to gun guys whether or not the firearms are represented convincingly can make or break the game.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

This has mostly been discussed before. 

And I completely agree with you on the AK being fucking inaccurate as hell:

 

Barrel has no support causing it to shudder

Sights have very little distance apart

Loosely made for easier field stripping

 

The M4 really needs to change. And mil-sim or not, the weapons need to be realistic as hell as far as stats go. Because, for people like myself and a few other here on this forum, weapons that aren't true to their real-life capability really take away the authenticity.

Yes but the AK keeps on truckin.

Who cares about barrel shudder as long as what's down range is dead?

[enforcer1975 1111]

Exactly...the AK was made with bigger tolerances and the average DAU in mind ( which they had millions of ). I bet most of them are analphabets and just told "you shoot here, reload there don't bother about the selector switch just keep it where it stands ( fullauto )" and "when you have time take this off, pull this through the barrel and use that brush on this and this". Most encounters with iron sights are not fought over 200m anyway, guess why the intermediate round became so popular? And adding to what Kyrah said it doesn't matter what gun you use as long as the target is dead. And sadly there is enough proof that the AK is deadly and accurate enough to kill both western soldiers and whoever it is used against. The existing numbers are speaking for themselves that this is the jack of all trades device.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Enforcer

[sacrdandprofne 100]

Take my beans, Mr Allison.

[SFRGaming 718]

The bit about needing an AK windage tool is right on. My wife has a WASR 10 and I've learned that you CAN adjust it with a punch and hammer, but it won't be precise. IMO they should include the windage tool in the game as loot, and make the AK innaccurate until you find it.

That being said, once you get an AK sighted in they ARE reasonably accurate. Maybe 3-4 MOA accurate on average, which actually isn't bad for a service weapon. Once you find an AK windage tool ingame, or even as rare loot a side saddle scope mount, there's no reason an undamaged AK shouldn't be given that kind of accruacy.

 

The M16, undamaged, with an ACOG should be able to hit stationary torso targets at 500 meters every time without question. Marines on the rifle range are expected to be able to engage torso sized targets prone with iron sights at 500 meters.  

And ditto that M16 reliability is underestimated as well. I've fired tens of thousands of rounds out of the M16/Ar15 platform as a civilian and in the military, and I can't think of a single malfunction that wasn't my fault.

And I can vouch that com-block ammo can be crap. I've shot com-block surplus 7.62x54 and 8mm Mauser and I've had case eruptions on both. It's usually really rare in my expierence, though.

Good post. If realism is important in the game, to gun guys whether or not the firearms are represented convincingly can make or break the game.

Very well said. Weapons are things that should be very very realistic since its very short term, if you will. Its noticeable in a short amount of time. One thing I'd like to see is bore sighting. A simple piece that loads in like a normal round but instead of firing, it projects a IR laser to help you get the sights in the general area so fine tuning can be made.

[enforcer1975 1111]

A laser boresighter is pretty useful but it's a tool i wouldn't expect too much unless the person is a precision enthusiast and probably wouldn't even hit the broadside of a barn with boresighted minigun. Zeroing a rifle olf school style is what i think most people will do, a laser isn't infinite invisible and not a guarantee for precision, it depends on the user. I bet i wouldn't hit a paper target 300m away with a match level rifle without practice and knowledge of the gun.

[discipled 63]

I understand the balance argument. What could be added is a natural sway and rhythm/pulse that people have when trying to aim instead of a perfectly still hand.

[gorvi 189]

I agree with the m4 accuracy.  It needs to be tighter at further ranges.  The bipod should only allow you to reduce shaking.

 

I would like to see reloading times for clips depend upon where you put the ammo, no quick reloading from backpack, and slower reloading then now.  Also, pulling out a gun from a holster should be faster then pulling out a gun from the assault vest, which should be faster then pulling out the saw off shotgun from the backpack.

 

I would like to see weapon slings in the game which allow holding an exposed weapon with faster draw than a weapon strapped to the backpack.

[Demoth 366]

With guns, it's really all down to experiences really.

I have a Romanian AK 47 that I must have put 3,000 rounds through without having a single jam, and cleaning that thing is a breeze.

I have a Bushmaster M4A3 that I've put about 2,000 rounds through, and I've only had 1 stovepipe jam and maybe 2 misfeeds, though I think it had to do with after market mags.

Still, my Marine buddy did two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan and he and his Marine buddies haaaated their M16's. He said later on after left his friends who stayed got M4s that performed better, but he said his M16 was always jamming no matter how well he serviced it, and nearly cost him his life in a fight.

Again, it seems to be all in who you ask, but for the record, anyone I take to the range who has never fired a gun before does really well with my M4, not these shots that veer 20 miles to the left at 20 meters.

[rickenbacker 190]

If you want to talk weird windage adjustments... I used a model 45 submachine gun in the Swedish army (you'd probably know it as a Carl Gustaf or Model K, but it's never been called that in its home country), and the windage adjustment on that ALSO raises or lowers the front sight, because the sight pin is just a slightly offset nub on a screw. So to adjust it sideways, you'd turn the screw, which is also the elevation adjustment, so you'd now have adjusted the point of aim both to the side and up or down... It also used a strange looking key, but at least we were issued one of these per man :). 

 

The accuracy problem in DayZ is due to the way the game simulates the human factor. Instead of making the weapon shake (well, it still does this, but only when you're fatigued), the game disperses the fired bullets randomly in a "cone of fire" type thing. This of course ruins realism, as even the most accurate rifle sprays bullets worse than the most brutally mishandled shotgun in this game. Even if you put the guns in DayZ in a ransom rest, they'd still hit randomly within the cone - which is ironic, because the ransom rest is designed specifically to remove the human factor.

 

So the accuracy of the DayZ weapons is always going to be way, way off unless they change this system. I hope they do, as I really really hate randomness in games. It's almost never fun for the players and it's a bitch to adjust properly. 

 

Oh, and about my shooting experience: I've shot a few rifles with my dad, served a year in the Swedish army where I shot SMG's and MG's, and I'm a competitive pistol shooter. My only experience with the AR family of weapons is shooting an AR-15 for a day at a range. I found it heavier than I imagined, but very simple to operate and very easy to shoot. After a few shots I could hit targets out to 2-300m with a bit of effort, and at 100m every time. Standing unsupported I could still hit most targets from 50m, and this without any prior experience with the weapon or the sights. I bet the in-game M4 would miss half those shots. 

Edited February 4, 2014 by Rickenbacker

[tommes 331]

I'm glad there's someone that's willing to criticize the "Master Gun" AK47. There's too many people that have been told that it's great and left it at that. It's crap, and the only situation it is any good in is to supply under-trained soldiers, who themselves decrease the already shoddy effectiveness of an AK47.

It's not crap. It's great for what it's supposed to be. Accuracy is good enough for 200m, where most of the shooting without scopes is happening anyway. The 7.62x39 caliber is also very effective in said range while being easy to control. Shot an AK-47 single handedly gangsta style with no problems. It does the job and that reliably. I'd pick it up for combat anytime. For a shooting competition though a pimped out AR-15 type rifle sure is the better pick.

[rickenbacker 190]

The "Magnum", by the way, is obviously a Colt Python, probably not named that because of copyright issues. 

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I'd still hope they add an AKM, because the game isn't actually in Russia, in a place that (through ArmA canon, which they have no real reason not to include) just went through a huge civil war between three main Chernarussian factions, two of whom used the AKM/AKMS mainly (ChZdK Insurgents and Chedaki Independents) and the CDF still used them to a limited extent. 

 

The AK-74, being their main rifle, would probably be more common, but I can imagine that with militia and police units servicing the AKM it would still be a fairly common sight among AK-74s and AK-100s. 

 

The "Magnum", by the way, is obviously a Colt Python, probably not named that because of copyright issues. 

I hope, sincerely, that they change the name eventually. Naming something the "magnum" implies that there will only be one gun of that type at all, which sort of bothers me considering the Colt Python is a relatively poor choice if they wanted only one .357 revolver

[rickenbacker 190]

You should know that the AK series wasn't meant to deliver accurate fire but just volumes of lead towards the enemy right? It's basically treated as a smg with a powerful cartridge. Why else would they put auto before semi on the selector switch? 

 

This old chestnut again! Why doesn't anyone ever consider that, if the semi position is at the end of the switch, it's MUCH easier to get it into semiauto in a hurry by just pushing straight through auto. 

[rickenbacker 190]

I hope, sincerely, that they change the name eventually. Naming something the "magnum" implies that there will only be one gun of that type at all, which sort of bothers me considering the Colt Python is a relatively poor choice if they wanted only one .357 revolver

 

It's iconic, at least. Personally I prefer both the feel and the look of S&W (never got the "pull to unlock cylinder" on the Colts, but I can see why they went with the Python. Now give me my 4-inch S&W 686, please :). 

[applejaxc 2500]

It's not crap. It's great for what it's supposed to be.

 

Yeah. It's not hard to be crap.

[tommes 331]

Yeah. It's not hard to be crap.

Many a corpse has been lead to decomposition by that crap of an AK-47.

[rickenbacker 190]

The AK family is hardly crap. They're very well designed and constructed for their purpose: to be used by uneducated kids with an hour or two of weapons training, and to operate even if you pour a handful of grit into the mechanism. They're not made to be the world's most accurate weapon. simply because they don't have to: most firefights take place within 100m or less. 

[sunkillmoon 2]

thanks, great info and nice read

 

1 comment however:

 

Magnum, in it's neuter singular form in Latin means "large, big, great" and not "more"

[ploulaf 89]

except video game experience I don't know shit about weapons but kuddos for M4 accuracy. That'd help a lot.

[DURRHUNTER 597]

completeley off topic but your the only person i know on here that plays Atwar