The one and only Anti-PVP/PvP Discussion thread! Whine/discuss here!

[funionz 7]

I am not anti pvp. I am anti murder with absolutely no consequence. This allows for much more "preying" behavior than would ever occur in real life. Many of those who are all epeen-ho about pvp and bad mouth anyone who wants to balance things out simply want a game that allows them to power trip over other players. Many don't even care about the experience the game is attempting to portray. These are usually the same people that will have that same attitude no matter what game they go into. Their goal is to inflict as much grief on others via the internet as possible. Anything that even seems like it will restrict them from doing this will induce an internet tough-guy rage and they are against it.

This problem is inherent of all internet interaction and unfortunately does need some sort of artificial mechanic to balance things out.

I like how when people speak of others engaging in PVP' date=' it always turns into this super personal thing, like that guy was out to destroy the other person entire existence, not just ingame but in [i']real-life too. Half the time I don't even see the names of the people I kill, let alone care enough to "prey" on certain people, the odds of running into the same people over and over are astronomical, given the large nature of the map, the amount of players, and amount of servers.

I truly believe that most of the complaints people have, stem from the fact that they infact have never played a game like this, where player death makes you lose your time investment. I feel that most of you cannot handle this, so instead of rolling with it, you rage on the forums and tell us how PvP needs to be dumbed down because noone would ever kill another person in a post-apocalyptic scenario, and rattle off a bunch of bullshit in the process.

The game is working as intended, the only thing that needs to happen now, is have features added/polished and bugs squashed. If you dislike the game as it stands now, you're gonna dislike it even more when it's done.

[amishfury 0]

I am not anti pvp. I am anti murder with absolutely no consequence. This allows for much more "preying" behavior than would ever occur in real life. Many of those who are all epeen-ho about pvp and bad mouth anyone who wants to balance things out simply want a game that allows them to power trip over other players. Many don't even care about the experience the game is attempting to portray. These are usually the same people that will have that same attitude no matter what game they go into. Their goal is to inflict as much grief on others via the internet as possible. Anything that even seems like it will restrict them from doing this will induce an internet tough-guy rage and they are against it.

This problem is inherent of all internet interaction and unfortunately does need some sort of artificial mechanic to balance things out.

I like how when people speak of others engaging in PVP' date=' it always turns into this super personal thing, like that guy was out to destroy the other person entire existence, not just ingame but in [i']real-life too. Half the time I don't even see the names of the people I kill, let alone care enough to "prey" on certain people, the odds of running into the same people over and over are astronomical, given the large nature of the map, the amount of players, and amount of servers.

I truly believe that most of the complaints people have, stem from the fact that they infact have never played a game like this, where player death makes you lose your time investment. I feel that most of you cannot handle this, so instead of rolling with it, you rage on the forums and tell us how PvP needs to be dumbed down because noone would ever kill another person in a post-apocalyptic scenario, and rattle off a bunch of bullshit in the process.

The game is working as intended, the only thing that needs to happen now, is have features added/polished and bugs squashed. If you dislike the game as it stands now, you're gonna dislike it even more when it's done.

Well said.

[teih 36]

I truly believe that most of the complaints people have' date=' stem from the fact that they infact have never played a game like this, where player death makes you lose your time investment. I feel that most of you cannot handle this, so instead of rolling with it, you rage on the forums and tell us how PvP needs to be dumbed down because noone would ever kill another person in a post-apocalyptic scenario, and rattle off a bunch of bullshit in the process.

[/quote']

What utter nonsense.

I am not sure if you have read my post on the previous page, but I would like you to come up with some valid arguments to my so called "bullshit". Just spewing out generalizing comments about how the game is fine, and how we're just wrong gets old very, very fast.

To try to respond to your comment: no, I do not mind losing all my stuff. As a matter of fact I love it. I also love the constant threat of potentialy being watched by another person who might want me dead. It's the reason I play, and it constantly keeps me on my toes.

The problem is that the word "might" does not exist. Everyone and their grandmother wants you dead, and mostly it's just to prevent you from shooting them first. Having that as the sole motivation for killing someone in a zombie apocalypse is ridiculous, and it personaly makes me unable to really get immersed in the game, cause it's absolutely mindless.

As I said it is a zombie apocalypse, not an arena. The developers are trying to make the most genuine experience possible. They want you to think, plan ahead and adapt, but the current random nature of pvp does nothing but overshadowing it.

I would like PvP to be more interesting, and less about shooting everything that moves.

I think you fail to see that some of us actually enjoy the spontanious situational alliances between strangers that this game has the potential to create, taking on challenges together. Having this aspect in the game will not "dumb" the pvp down, but rather do the complete oposite.

Please read my post on the previous page as well before you reply, as there I talk about a few potential solutions.

Edit: I forgot to mention the immersive aspect as well. Taking on the role of a survivor or a bandit should be an option. Right now you are forced to be the bandit, and personaly that's not how I want to play my character. Does that make me a bad player? Not at all. It simply means I like to have choices, to let my actions have some meaning behind them. To actually have to think about how I want to be seen by others, and how I want to handle certain situations.

[gizm0 96]

I am not anti pvp. I am anti murder with absolutely no consequence. This allows for much more "preying" behavior than would ever occur in real life. Many of those who are all epeen-ho about pvp and bad mouth anyone who wants to balance things out simply want a game that allows them to power trip over other players. Many don't even care about the experience the game is attempting to portray. These are usually the same people that will have that same attitude no matter what game they go into. Their goal is to inflict as much grief on others via the internet as possible. Anything that even seems like it will restrict them from doing this will induce an internet tough-guy rage and they are against it.

This problem is inherent of all internet interaction and unfortunately does need some sort of artificial mechanic to balance things out.

I like how when people speak of others engaging in PVP' date=' it always turns into this super personal thing, like that guy was out to destroy the other person entire existence, not just ingame but in [i']real-life too. Half the time I don't even see the names of the people I kill, let alone care enough to "prey" on certain people, the odds of running into the same people over and over are astronomical, given the large nature of the map, the amount of players, and amount of servers.

I truly believe that most of the complaints people have, stem from the fact that they infact have never played a game like this, where player death makes you lose your time investment. I feel that most of you cannot handle this, so instead of rolling with it, you rage on the forums and tell us how PvP needs to be dumbed down because noone would ever kill another person in a post-apocalyptic scenario, and rattle off a bunch of bullshit in the process.

The game is working as intended, the only thing that needs to happen now, is have features added/polished and bugs squashed. If you dislike the game as it stands now, you're gonna dislike it even more when it's done.

So i'm gonna hate it more when there is more to do than just kill things?!

edit: So why are bandits safe in their sub-forum but survivors aren't?

[Cosmic (DayZ) 12]

What about servers that have PVP enabled and servers that have PVP disabled?

[teih 36]

What about servers that have PVP enabled and servers that have PVP disabled?

The threat from bandits is one of the key elements to this game, and is to most what makes the game what it is :)

I doubt anyone would find it very exchiting if the zombies were the only challenge, atleast not in the long run. They're too simplistic.

[phienyx 14]

I like how Aaron assumes I've never played a game like this because I dislike the internet sociopaths that are sociopaths in every game they play....not just DayZ. I'll just say that its a fair guess that my experience in gaming probably exceeds your age and my experience in realism mods is pretty extensive as well.

I did not even say I was against PvP. People tend to take things to the extremes in games because they can do so without consequence. This is not a portrayal of reality at all. The purpose of my statement is that if we want a game that is going to realistically portray how people might behave in a time of crisis, there has to be something in place to even out the "its the interwebs so it doesn't matter if I'd never do this in real life. I can do it here." concept.

Secondly, Aaron the game is NOT currently working as intended. This is why it is still in Alpha state. This is not the stage where it just needs polish and a few bugs squashed. This is the stage where they are experimenting with concepts, features and what does and does not work with the core mechanics....as well as other things. And unless you have some inside information and intimate knowledge that the rest of us do not have in regard to what is intended as the end result of DayZ, I do not think that you have any idea if I'm going to like it or not. It is a possibility that you end up not liking it. Who knows? It is way too early for you to even pretend that you know where its going and to tell me what I will and will not like about it. But I will be sure to keep you personally updated with what I do and don't about it as development progresses.

[G'Kyl 0]

People tend to take things to the extremes in games because they can do so without consequence. This is not a portrayal of reality at all. The purpose of my statement is that if we want a game that is going to realistically portray how people might behave in a time of crisis' date=' there has to be something in place to even out the "its the interwebs so it doesn't matter if I'd never do this in real life. I can do it here." concept.[/quote']

That's exactly the point. DayZ is by no means realistic, but it seems to attempt to create some kind of a believable place where it raises the question of "What if...?". Some try to figure out an answer to that question, while some people use that place as a PvP sandbox. I'm pretty sure the latter (or at least most of them) would in reality not run around shooting every living thing in sight - they only do so, because DayZ lacks any kind of consequence. Which, of course, is true for any kind of game. Fortunately. :)

Now I don't like the idea of artificial game mechanisms (marking bandits, lowering their stats or whatever) emulating real consequences (like witnessing gruesome violence, bad conscience, reputation, reaction of friends/family etc.). I believe that takes away from the experience for any kind of player. However with some wanting to play DayZ as a game and some looking for role-playing, the only real solution I can see is to make some servers PvE-exclusive by turning off friendly fire. I don't see how that would harm anyone's preference. For some it would take the human enemy out of the equation, but that enemy doesn't simulate as it should in the first place. ;)

Z might be even more deadly on PvE servers, also there might be areas with more loot and a lot more zombies to make things even more interesting - on any kind of server, actually.

[logan23 118]

Making PvP and PVE servers would destroy DayZ. What's great us it allows both to be there. DayZ is brutal and as it progresses we will see it be brutal to all playstyles as it should be.

The Zeds and environment are the tools of the Devs to bring real tension and fear in a way that the old D&D board games where the Dungeon Master is there to keep players on their toes and to basically mess with them - adding conflicts.

I expect DayZ to get even more hard core where We will see the true PvPers who love the challenge verse the ones who cry because they want to just shoot players without any walls or tension.

[Kageru 18]

To a PvP person a PvE / PvP split means a lot less targets PvP, and those remaining are more agressive and skilled. Not a good thing.

It's not a great solution anyway. The idea is that both extremes get most of what they want. Most players will have some interest in PvP some of the time. But you need some mechanic for that (there's lots of possibilities) or the more dedicated PvP players tend to chase off people who can't compete (soloists, casuals, pure-PvE players, zombie fans).

At this point the game is way too immature to be splitting it up into sub-communities, on the other hand if he wants to keep the "zombies are cool!" casual gamers then the current environment will probably chase most of them off. I guess that's why alpha development is normally not done while being public and catching a lot of attention too early can hurt a project.

[Cosmic (DayZ) 12]

To a PvP person a PvE / PvP split means a lot less targets PvP' date=' and those remaining are more agressive and skilled. Not a good thing.

[/quote']

Yes it is. It's a very good thing. Put all those douchebags who sit in trees with sniper rifles against other assholes who just feel like shooting everyone they see on sight. Ya they'll be more aggressive and skilled, but that's the PVP server.

The PVE or PVZ server would be how the game should be played, and I think how most people want to play, as a zombie survival game. Find other players, team up, kill zombies. And just so it wouldn't be a big team just going town to town owning everything and getting boring, you could do something to even that out. Maybe a lot more zombies on the PVZ server. Something... I'm just so tried of all these wannabe badasses shooting everyone on sight, because they wanna jerk off to killing other people. It's ruining the experience...

[funionz 7]

I am not sure if you have read my post on the previous page' date=' but I would like you to come up with some valid arguments to my so called "bullshit". Just spewing out generalizing comments about how the game is fine, and how we're just wrong gets old very, very fast.[/quote']

I did read it, class systems and bringing back the bandit skin? No.

The problem is that the word "might" does not exist. Everyone and their grandmother wants you dead, and mostly it's just to prevent you from shooting them first. Having that as the sole motivation for killing someone in a zombie apocalypse is ridiculous, and it personaly makes me unable to really get immersed in the game, cause it's absolutely mindless.

I say this with complete certainty, your immersion matters little to everyone else. Having everyone wanting you dead is a feature of the game, not at all detrimental, it makes you value your life more.

As I said it is a zombie apocalypse, not an arena. The developers are trying to make the most genuine experience possible. They want you to think, plan ahead and adapt, but the current random nature of pvp does nothing but overshadowing it.

I would like PvP to be more interesting, and less about shooting everything that moves.

You want it more interesting by making it just like every other game, with class systems and distinguishable enemies, thus making the whole idea of a wolf in sheeps clothing completely moot. No thanks.

I think you fail to see that some of us actually enjoy the spontanious situational alliances between strangers that this game has the potential to create, taking on challenges together. Having this aspect in the game will not "dumb" the pvp down, but rather do the complete oposite.

This is happening regardless of the PVP, check the threads in the survivor forum. Laziness is the only thing that seperates all the survivors from eachother.

Edit: I forgot to mention the immersive aspect as well. Taking on the role of a survivor or a bandit should be an option. Right now you are forced to be the bandit, and personaly that's not how I want to play my character. Does that make me a bad player? Not at all. It simply means I like to have choices, to let my actions have some meaning behind them. To actually have to think about how I want to be seen by others, and how I want to handle certain situations.

Noone forces you to be a bandit, and if everyone was forced to be a bandit, then I would have alot more bandit kills, as it stands, 1:30 players I encounter are bandits.

[septuscap 42]

I think you fail to see that some of us actually enjoy the spontanious situational alliances between strangers that this game has the potential to create' date=' taking on challenges together. Having this aspect in the game will not "dumb" the pvp down, but rather do the complete oposite.[/quote']

This is happening regardless of the PVP, check the threads in the survivor forum. Laziness is the only thing that seperates all the survivors from eachother.

This is really what it comes down to. Bandits have formed their tribes and wreck bad players. Bad players come cry to forums because they don't know how to take cover from snipers.

1. go to Survivor HQ and find a group

2. Make sure your buddy is giving you overwatch when you approach a stranger (get instant revenge, recover loot)

3. Establish communication before just walking up to some one and getting shot. Use cover.

4. Test your new acquaintance while your friend stays hidden. See if he betrays you.

I mean this isn't rocket science, bandits put in way more effort when stalking their targets, hitting hospitals / military camps / etc. The friendlies who are doing these trivial, basic things are surviving just fine.

[Greensoxxx 3]

I like the uncertainty that most people have when seeing others, but when you shout:"I'm wounded and friendly, do you have any morphine?". And he just looks around scared. I say I'm friendly again, and he just started shooting at me, I had my gun out so I shot him aswell, got him good, and then he just logged out as quickly as he could. I mean it's okay if he doesn't trust me and all, but logging off in the middle of a shout out? That's just bad.

[thywolf@live.ca 3]

You removed the humanity system because players would wrongfully have a skin change for defending themselves, ok thats understandable, now your removing tents cause people have set up camps outside the map area so when they get killed(most likely by this point by another player), now your just going out of the way...

Remove the PvP system until you can work out all the bugs in this game that deals with it. There is no reason for players to kill other players, not a single reason, don't try and say it's realism, or that it adds in more fun. Cause all people do is sit around guarding the food and weapon spawns to kill the players that just had to respawn (mostly because of being killed by another player) Thus making the game impossible to actually try and survive in, cause congratulations, you now taken away the freshly spawned player's ability to defend themselves, the weapon spawns are a joke unless you go into the heavy zombie or high Player killer areas.

So just take out the PvP until you can fix all your little plans with humanity, until you make it so where you just don't shoot anything that moves cause there is no real reason not too. Til you can reward players who actually take their time to wiggle around in the world actually trying to find and scavenge items, rather then reward players who think it is the best time of their lives to shit in a high need area and shoot whoever comes inside.

[I_AM_DANIEL 0]

link to where they said they are removing tents please.

i love hyporbolic posts so much.

[zipper 69]

Yes. And lets remove zombies until all the bugs are worked out as well. Players can just log into the servers and make a campfire singing kumbaya while holding hands and eating roasted marshmellows.

You have made a giant qq post. I hope you expect it to get treated as such.

[Ada069 0]

It's in Alpha. Why remove the only part of the game that actually works?

[Zeromentor 169]

Let's remove loot as well, no point in collecting stuff if death takes it all away.

And remove the ability to join servers, too.

Yeah, I went there.

[Masterluke199 0]

You Sir, will get spammed like crazy.

Why won't we remove food and water as well?

Good grief, PVP is what makes the game exciting, along with shooting zeds and looting.

[Optimist (DayZ) 6]

Firstly, let us understand the back story to this post.

In the last 10-15 minutes, Thywolf has been playing a round of DayZ with a brand new character following the quick death of the one before that. He went into a city/village looking for supplies only to be killed by a bandit hiding within.

In an uncontrollable fit of rage, Thywolf decided to gather his hateful thoughts - rather too soon - and vent his anger in the one place that people may listen, the forums.

Unlike many players before him, Thywolf chose the suggestions area of the forum - a brief stroke of genius - as this meant that his ill-thought thread would last substantially longer than a stint in the General Discussion area.

Well done Thywolf.

But seriously, imagine this was real life. There are thousands of paranoid/evil/selfish people out there, those people would kill you just as quick as they do on this game. This is PVP.

[thywolf@live.ca 3]

link to where they said they are removing tents please.

i love hyporbolic posts so much.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=17006

Tents have been wiped' date=' thus removed, sure you can still go find and set them up. But the work some people have put in to try and make a viable community in the game has been reset.

Also the word you wanted is spelled hyperbolic

' pid='224069' dateline='1341135274']

Yes. And lets remove zombies until all the bugs are worked out as well. Players can just log into the servers and make a campfire singing kumbaya while holding hands and eating roasted marshmallows.

You have made a giant qq post. I hope you expect it to get treated as such.

At least people well be able to find the items to make a camp fire cause some griever with nightvision goggles and a silenced AK isn't camping all the items.

You sir have contributed, but a waste of space, hope you enjoy it.

It's in Alpha. Why remove the only part of the game that actually works?

Cause it doesn't work fairly to players. At least all the lil zombie glitches happens to everyone now and then.

Firstly' date=' let us understand the back story to this post.

In the last 10-15 minutes, Thywolf has been playing a round of DayZ with a brand new character following the quick death of the one before that. He went into a city/village looking for supplies only to be killed by a bandit hiding within.

In an uncontrollable fit of rage, Thywolf decided to gather his hateful thoughts - rather too soon - and vent his anger in the one place that people may listen, the forums.

Unlike many players before him, Thywolf chose the suggestions area of the forum - a brief stroke of genius - as this meant that his ill-thought thread would last substantially longer than a stint in the General Discussion area.

Well done Thywolf.

But seriously, imagine this was real life. There are thousands of paranoid/evil/selfish people out there, those people would kill you just as quick as they do on this game. This is PVP.

[/quote']

Close but no cigar my friend, I don't think this game is anywhere near close enough to support a pvp system. It should be scrapped so development can go on and receive feedback, from.. who know, not sitting in a corner shooting people who are trying to play the game.

Now if this was real life, I'd be able to enter any building, I would have a complete set of weapons to start with, including: swords, knifes, a lakefield 64B .22LR, several shotguns, and a .308 Remington hunting rifle. Oh also I would be able to set up a house, yes a house out of reach of common traveled areas and yell at people in the distance to leave, without having to shoot them, hell, then could come join me.

Today I've been playing dayZ roughly 30 minutes to an hour before being force to go to a high traveled aream only to find spots where you can find useful items barewired off and people camping around the area just to shoot people coming looking.

[Sodom 0]

we need a coop mode and a normal mode

and everyone is happy

the mod at this time is more like a deathmatch

[Zeromentor 169]

Guy with axe, meet guy with sniper rifle. Both need stealth to pick and kill victims with ease. One is actively hunting the other.

PvP is more about skill than weapons, why I run with Lee Enfields and M16s so much, because they are easy to find, not because I can hit players from 1200 meters at night.

Sure, some people camp loot sites, or kill fresh spawns, but some people would just follow you and block doorways and take your loot if there was no PvP. Or draw ALL the zombies to you. Or constantly hit you in the face with smoke grenades. Or scream in their mic until you muted them, and then come back with a different name and do it again. Or barb wire you in place when you go AFK. Or push you into the water with a car.

Or anything else you can think up.

Lack of PvP does not equal lack of griefers, they just find new means.

[thywolf@live.ca 3]

Guy with axe' date=' meet guy with sniper rifle. Both need stealth to pick and kill victims with ease. One is actively hunting the other.

PvP is more about skill than weapons, why I run with Lee Enfields and M16s so much, because they are easy to find, not because I can hit players from 1200 meters at night.

Sure, some people camp loot sites, or kill fresh spawns, but some people would just follow you and block doorways and take your loot if there was no PvP. Or draw ALL the zombies to you. Or constantly hit you in the face with smoke grenades. Or scream in their mic until you muted them, and then come back with a different name and do it again. Or barb wire you in place when you go AFK. Or push you into the water with a car.

Or anything else you can think up.

Lack of PvP does not equal lack of griefers, they just find new means.

[/quote']

Yes if you go afk long enough for someone to bump into you and encase you with barbwire, you should have logged out probably.

But PvP just stops people from playing the game, you don't have a choice to shut it off, of do something(without exploiting the game) to stop it from happening. Where as, I can avoid people luring zombies, logging out to get away from smoke grenades is not exploiting the game, muting people is something you can actually do.