The one and only Anti-PVP/PvP Discussion thread! Whine/discuss here!

[Cormac McCarthy 15]

Most who buy Arma II and get this mod (because they visit the website and it looks "awesome") are expecting something completely different to what it actually is like.

So they didn't do any research' date=' looked at the front page for 30 seconds and thought the screenshots looked neat, and now we're supposed to change the game to suit their needs?

[img']http://i.imgur.com/MZNHT.png

what about step #3?

[funionz 7]

Old enough to recognise Ad-hominem and discard it.

So says the king of the straw man fallacy.

I could making a drinking game out of every single time you've compared DayZ to another game

[Banicks 55]

Implement reasons to not shoot and instead group.

To do this, the PvE scripting element needs to be expanded. Rocket indicated the ability to create your own forts using wood, houses, strongholds etc in a minecraft-esque move when it eventually moves forward. Making the only way to create these is in large groups would be a first step.

Increased zombie activity, 1.7.1.3/4 showed us that a minor tweak to sound/visibility makes the towns nigh impossible without outright killing them first. This made the game unplayable for solo people though. So perhaps considering increase probably and quality of loot drops based on number of people clearing a town.

Finally, mass scripted events. ie: zombie horde of 200+ comming down from the north to hold the airfield for whatever reason. Group of scripted survivors/military personel holding up in a town/stronghold/airfield which is drawing those zeds to them. The player could help them, destroy them.

Basically thought through scripted events to force people to group. Because at the moment it's just KoS - you've got nothing to lose. It takes a survivor 1-2 days to get well kitted, and a bandit a second to shoot and loot. There is no incentive to ensure that your 'morality' is retained.

I realise that perhaps this is what Rocket wants. But tbh after a month of it, I'd love to group up with people but its always KoS. It just gets boring.

I could easily go north, and have done so for a week, with a crossbow and all the supplies i need to refill at dams and hunt wildlife. But that gets boring. Getting kitted to be KoS gets boring too after a month. So I started to KoS other players and it was so easy to get geared, that out of complete boredom I go to the airfields to hunt other bandits.

The groundwork for a really great game is here, but it needs work. It needs elements to keep a player entertained outside of adding inconvenient zombies to a FFA arma 2 map. PvP elements are already there, time to development some PvE incentives, because a leadership board just wont cut it.

[Bear ( The Irish ) 0]

You know I have had my fair share of bandit mishaps and I have come to hate/love them because while it is a survival simulator the idea of the game is to see how long you last and (the expediency is low) i find myself bored after awhile once i have top of the line gear (never seem to be able to find a GPS though :P)

... so i headed back to the coast in seek of companion ship with some gear to spare and 9 times out of 10 i get shot on my way through elektra (think of the sqweeling laughture of the bandit who just hit the Mother faqking jackpot) but i don't mind because my favorite part of the game is getting the stuff so that i can defend my self

i kind of compare it to minecraft you start with nothing and you progress to the end where you eventually slip up and have to start all over again or you get bored and start a new world any way) but as much as i love PVP, intense gunfights and stand offs and all. It would NOT hurt the bandits to lay off the new Spawned/player killing i do get annoyed if i get shot within 5-10 minutes or spawing or get shot randomly while loging in

so really until there is an "end game" i fine with the way the game is

[eero.afheurlin@iki.fi 0]

as far as I see it there are already huge advantages to grouping (guess why the clans are doing it in DayZ too?), of course you need to trust those people and there is nothing in the game itself to enforce that trust.

Just the way I like it. I play solo for now since I haven't been able to get those of my friends who know how to play ArmA to join me yet and we have quite different schedules in life (I just got a baby so that obviously changes priorities). I do not shoot on sight, I help people if I can (thouhg I will consider risk to myself) and could consider grouping with people that I know are honorable by reputation even if I do not know them.

However changing things so that it's 1. (practically) mandatory to group 2. adding some sort of game mechanic that makes betrayals impossible is definitely when wrong direction IMO.

[kpl_hicks 1]

The majority of this playerbase of this mod is bloodthirsty / forum trolling / exploiters.

Couldn't agree more with what you have said here...Well put.

[Gezmond 0]

I’m not sure if it has already been suggested, put the solution seems simple.

Make another type of class –

Bandits - Survivors – ”anti-bandits enforcers”

These enforcers get a different skin (even the old bandit skin) after they have killed X amount of bandits.

A certain percentage of survivors are less likely to shoot enforcers on sight for two reasons:

1) See the skin and know the enforcer won’t shoot until he identifies you as a bandit.

2) They are an enforcer. They are trying to hunt the people hunting you.

Having a different skin doesn’t make a difference to bandit encounters, because by their very nature they are going to shot at you anyway.

Could be quite a lucrative deal… Even for the ex-bandit….(snipers love a good sniper fight)

Enforcer gets to group easily with randoms. Sit outside towns and use survivors as bait for bandits.

Demanding a share of the loot from groups they protect, even if there are no bandits around. If a bandit is killed, probably some good loot.

The skin is earned and used as a symbol of trust and can be lost by committing murders.

[Bucket (DayZ) 0]

Implement reasons to not shoot and instead group.

To do this' date=' the PvE scripting element needs to be expanded. Rocket indicated the ability to create your own forts using wood, houses, strongholds etc in a minecraft-esque move when it eventually moves forward. Making the only way to create these is in large groups would be a first step.

Increased zombie activity, 1.7.1.3/4 showed us that a minor tweak to sound/visibility makes the towns nigh impossible without outright killing them first. This made the game unplayable for solo people though. So perhaps considering increase probably and quality of loot drops based on number of people clearing a town.

Finally, mass scripted events. ie: zombie horde of 200+ comming down from the north to hold the airfield for whatever reason. Group of scripted survivors/military personel holding up in a town/stronghold/airfield which is drawing those zeds to them. The player could help them, destroy them.

Basically thought through scripted events to force people to group. Because at the moment it's just KoS - you've got nothing to lose. It takes a survivor 1-2 days to get well kitted, and a bandit a second to shoot and loot. There is no incentive to ensure that your 'morality' is retained.

I realise that perhaps this is what Rocket wants. But tbh after a month of it, I'd love to group up with people but its always KoS. It just gets boring.

I could easily go north, and have done so for a week, with a crossbow and all the supplies i need to refill at dams and hunt wildlife. But that gets boring. Getting kitted to be KoS gets boring too after a month. So I started to KoS other players and it was so easy to get geared, that out of complete boredom I go to the airfields to hunt other bandits.

The groundwork for a really great game is here, but it needs work. It needs elements to keep a player entertained outside of adding inconvenient zombies to a FFA arma 2 map. PvP elements are already there, time to development some PvE incentives, because a leadership board just wont cut it.

[/quote']

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

[chaveezy 19]

The only way to keep people from shooting other players it to turn FF off.. Sorry, it's just human nature to defend what you have and those who shoot first walk away.. There is no way around it. I was driving a 4 wheeler to Novy to pick up a friend of mine who was injured and a group of 3-4 players opened fire on me, probably expending 30-40 rounds, couple of them hit me, however, I still made it away. I parked it near the road and set up an ambush and when they came to investigate I shot them one by one from 200-300m away.

They just want your stuff, if they see a well equipped survivor, that's the incentive.. My friends and I were talking about grouping last night and had the topic came up about NPC's throughout the game that could assist you, for instance, if you brought them 10 tin cans they could make you bullets or something or having the hords of zombies traversing the lands, it would force people to group and defend locations. If you were on your own you would be dead, and a group of 3-4 would not stand a chance. It's a dream though, I think there is mechanics to the game that still need refinement before storyline is going to be focused on. Slow and refine zombie movement for instance, if you had 300 lightning fast, zig zagging, wall teleporting zombies coming in on you, even a group of 10-12 would get murdered.

I love the game though, play it for HOURS on end ;)

[Srellian 0]

Most who buy Arma II and get this mod (because they visit the website and it looks "awesome") are expecting something completely different to what it actually is like.

Agree with that, what I expected when I bought ARMA was

not

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

PK's are motivated by the idea of proving their superiority and disrupting someone elses play-session.

The PK arguments of "we are roleplaying a realistic reaction of the savagery in man being released in a time of crisis' date=' we add tension and challenge that makes the game of value" is really just cover...[/quote']

Old enough to recognise Ad-hominem and discard it.

You are just absolutely precious.

[Kageru 18]

If your initials are PK and you thought I was referring to you I apologise, otherwise you look pretty silly.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

If your initials are PK and you thought I was referring to you I apologise' date=' otherwise you look pretty silly.

[/quote']

So as long as you slap an arbitrary two-letter label on a group of people then it's okay to make ad hominem attacks against them, put words in their mouth and thoughts in their head, make blanket statements about their intentions, and basically accuse them of being disingenuous?

Okay. I got it now. Thanks for clearing that up.

From now on you and your goofy ilk will be referred to as "CBs" and I'm going to make up a bunch of ridiculous shit about why you do it what you do, and it won't be an ad hominem 'cause I used two letters instead of calling you out by name. Sound good?

[Kageru 18]

Sigh.

Making an observation about a population within a game, and how I expect that population within the game to approach the game, is called making an observation. Also known as making a point, sometimes used in arguments. You could attack it as being a generalisation, or incorrect, but it is not ad-hominem in any sense of the word.

You can feel free to make assertions that "CB's" are weak individuals not playing the game properly... I'll see if I can detect the difference from most of your existing posts.

[sandorski 17]

Most who buy Arma II and get this mod (because they visit the website and it looks "awesome") are expecting something completely different to what it actually is like.

Agree with that' date=' what I expected when I bought ARMA was

not

[/quote']

Indeed. First was hilarious and looked fun. Second was pointless, but would have been cool if he got popped.

[Quadg 5]

face it folks it’s a sandbox. the 50 players on a server are all playing a different game for different reasons.

people server hopping for loot get good stuff quick then get bored and then start killing..

BATMANs guys above a perfect example. they don’t need to spend a long time looking for stuff (the bit of the game I actually enjoy) or even surviving... why walk for over an hour to the NWAF when you can get to 50 by server hopping? do one walk and then 50 hops and your bored shitless... so you start pinging around on top of the factories shooting people for giggles... my teenage son would find that hilarious... but I don’t play with him.

so whatever reason you give for playing the game is irrelevant when there are 49 playing it for completely different reasons.

they need to sort out persistence and server hopping as this makes persistence a boon for hoppers and a bane for survivors. stop hopping or make persistence server based rather than meta, like tents and vehicles. Or move the spawn points for loot around on each instance of the world, like helicopter crash sites, so you can’t ping through 50 different servers and 50 barracks. If you have to find the barracks after moving map you won’t hop.)

also reduce the loot you can take from survivors (as high velocity rounds will do damage to a dudes gear as well as kill him, NVG’s with extra bullet hole are useless) to reduce but not stop PVP (lazy buggers will need to search instead of kill a guy for his stuff and it then makes sense to try and team up with a well equipped guy just to have his gear in the group)

So my problem isn’t PVP, its bored hoppers killing me for shits and giggles, so change the sandbox to force them out. I want to play in one sandbox, not multiple sandboxes with Einstein-rosen bridges allowing travel between them... really why walk when you can hop down a wormhole to a different instance...

[heathy87 1]

if you wanna improve team play just make the zombies really freakin hard, give them insane amounts of health and or damage sustained reduction.

if taking out one zombie requires 4 headshots or 30 chest shots, team play will grow exponentially.

[Julia_Shafer 18]

or just do what I do and go to a 25 player server, less people less chance of contact. Now I will say last night got hecktic there was about half the damn server between novy and stary shooting out. Whats funny is me and a friend caused it. We stalked these 2 people who kept throwing flares (I presumed as bait) and at about 200 meters opened fire killing one of them. The other one I put at least one into and we thought he aborted. We crawled on our hands and knees for awhile to the body and over to the left flares were popping up and a huge firefight started. All because of my friend and I. (PS. Sy I have your alice)

[xximrtwoixx 104]

+1 Quadg

You nailed the reasoning behind most S city shooters.

Hopping is the biggest challenge, I imagine in full release there would be one central server or several geographic servers for a region that share persistance. I dont really see a fix for this at this stage in the mod though. There are several good suggestions posted though, I like the idea of no spawn zones to eliminate hopping or old school linked servers representing different geographic locations.

[aposky 20]

Most who buy Arma II and get this mod (because they visit the website and it looks "awesome") are expecting something completely different to what it actually is like.

Agree with that' date=' what I expected when I bought ARMA was

not

[/quote']

For now bandits or actually we should call them murderers do not suffer from any kind of punishment. Murderers always win:

- look like survivor

- shoot first

- have better equipment

- don't need to worry about food, water, supplies, ammunition because they loot those from dead survivors

- etc

In real life they would be chased by all normal people (survivors), police and military. I really would like to see a bandit skin back and implemented punishment for killing players. To make it simple:

- if you kill someone you get negative karma and you become murderer

- if survivor kills murderer he gets banned from game for X amount of time (he got caught and executed for his sins)

- karma level slowly regenerates with time, (blood transfusion etc cannot restore karma), so after few days murderers can become a survivor again (if he didn't killed anyone)

with that system player would be aware of risk for killing someone. Players would think twice before they pull a trigger.

Not only survivors would risk.

Gameplay would be improved significantly.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

In real life they would be chased by all normal people (survivors)

You have feet? So chase them.

"In real life" there wouldn't be a game designer you could run to and ask for magical dunce caps to be placed on all the naughty men so you could spot them from a distance.

[Robert512 12]

- have better equipment

*BS* I killed bandits ingame with a Macaroni (Makarov) because they simply let me come up close and put the barrel to the back of their heads and between their ears if you push hard enough.

Every weapon kills, and if you are good enough you don't even need top equipment and weapons.

[Unyaro (DayZ) 4]

My biggest issue with bandits is that they can sit somewhere in town prone, be near impossible to spot, and zombies just ignore them(if they're on a roof or something), it would be nice if zombies began to congregate on someone who'd been sitting in the same general area for more then 5-10 minutes.

Say that your smell is attracting them or something, that way bandits would have to move occasionally to avoid zombies or kill zombies to retain their spot, either way gives survivors more opportunity to sneak past, or alternatively spot a bandit(2-3 zombies all congregating tells you someone's been camping for a while).

Additionally it would be great if survivors dropped less than they were actually carrying(Could possibly even set it so only those with murders would be impacted), giving less of a reason for people to kill others for gear, and regular survivors could still loot bodies and find stuff.

As is, banditry is too beneficial to not be doing, no downside, all upside.

[funionz 7]

My biggest issue with bandits is that they can sit somewhere in town prone' date=' be near impossible to spot, and zombies just ignore them(if they're on a roof or something), it would be nice if zombies began to congregate on someone who'd been sitting in the same general area for more then 5-10 minutes.

Say that your smell is attracting them or something, that way bandits would have to move occasionally to avoid zombies or kill zombies to retain their spot, either way gives survivors more opportunity to sneak past, or alternatively spot a bandit(2-3 zombies all congregating tells you someone's been camping for a while).

Additionally it would be great if survivors dropped less than they were actually carrying(Could possibly even set it so only those with murders would be impacted), giving less of a reason for people to kill others for gear, and regular survivors could still loot bodies and find stuff.

As is, banditry is too beneficial to not be doing, no downside, all upside.

[/quote']

Zombies never ignore people, especially people firing weapons. Even if i'm perched up on a rooftop, there's still zombies congregating at the base of the building yelling and making noise. When I fire my enfield it draws all zombies within a 3 block radius so I think it's working as intended.

As far as 'smell' bandit detection goes... I think i'll file that one in the Kageru folder

[qfan 1]

My biggest issue with bandits is that they can sit somewhere in town prone' date=' be near impossible to spot, and zombies just ignore them(if they're on a roof or something), it would be nice if zombies began to congregate on someone who'd been sitting in the same general area for more then 5-10 minutes.

Say that your smell is attracting them or something, that way bandits would have to move occasionally to avoid zombies or kill zombies to retain their spot, either way gives survivors more opportunity to sneak past, or alternatively spot a bandit(2-3 zombies all congregating tells you someone's been camping for a while).

Additionally it would be great if survivors dropped less than they were actually carrying(Could possibly even set it so only those with murders would be impacted), giving less of a reason for people to kill others for gear, and regular survivors could still loot bodies and find stuff.

As is, banditry is too beneficial to not be doing, no downside, all upside.

[/quote']

The current state of pvp makes as much sense as a soldier in Pearl Harbor watching planes smash into his fleet and deciding to pick up a rifle and open fire on the next person he sees.