[POLL] - 3PP / 1PP and seeing round corners

[frosti 2165]

EVERYONE IS FORGETTING ABOUT VEHICLES.

 

Yes, someone on the Elektro Hospital roof can lay prone and spot the entire city for his whole team, and never be seen.

 

Yes, you can be killed outside the fire station because someone hid around the corner, leaning with 3PP on, and quickly killed you.

You never saw them, you could have never seen them and they had the drop on you due to a camera exploit.

 

This is major BS, but I've dealt with it since the MOD.

Deal with it.

3PP off servers are the compromise.

 

I want to be able to land my heli/ drive my car without killing everyone inside it, or damaging it beyond repair.

Mod players: you know you don't drive/fly first person unless you are experienced.

New players trying to drive/fly in 1st person are going to waste alot of vehicle spawns.

 

3PP is needed for vehicles.

 

That is true that you will be better when you first get expirence on 3pp server before going on 1st person only.

 

Specially with piloting heli, as with 1st person only heli is a whole different story then on 3pp.

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

Fair point, reworded the poll with 'ability to see around cover' instead of 'exploit' not sure if it changes much but it's done.

 

I, for one, appreciate it. Thank you.

 

I am however still going to make the same points I did before, about how I would vote if the options were there:

While I don't primarily play on 3PP:On servers any more I don't consider the current implementation of 3PP unbalanced or exploitative, I think that anyone who's got the drop on you or is better than you at using cover is going to kill you or escape from you in most situations regardless. Saying that I also don't disagree with adding new options that handle 3PP differently (fog of war, camera snapping, etc.) so long as they are options and we are not talking about removing elements of gameplay that are currently completely optional and enjoyed by many.

[soulfirez 901]

Ok i prefer to play 1st and when i play alone i play on 1st person view only i find it more immersive ( have actually been startled by zeds which never happens in third to me.

 

But alot of my friends ( who strangely play arma in first person only in a strict mil style) prefer to play in 3rd in dayz .

 

So i end up spending alot of my time on a third and well as much as i hate to admit it as soon as i do i know i can use 3rd view so i do and i know i can see over walls so i do and can easily plan my attack or response be it player or zed but it just doesnt feel right the way i play changes completely its never as tense..

 

Id just like to be able to play with the guys i play with (who for god only known reason prefer the feel of it flicking from 1st to 3rd (3rd for general moving etc 1st for combat once the bullets fly lol ) and every other player, and have it a level playing ground so i could remain in first and get my thrills and tense moments in that view and they in there view but still having as tense a time as they need to in third peak around corner to see whats there like me in 1st.

 

I honestly feel it will make the devs job easier i mean the whole balance of zeds changes when the surprise factor is given back to them (you can see them they can see you ) same if its players (you can see them they can see you ) it just seems fair to me .

 

Thats why i chose the fourth wall idea doesnt change there view at all except removes them seeing zeds or players when there player wouldnt be able to see them. Its ment to be authentic that will give those who prefer 3rd view a more authentic feel to dayz and there might be some more thrills to be had i have always found fear of the unkown ( specially when it could be someone who wants to shoot you ) was scarier than seeing something you shouldnt and being able to hide watch it and plan an attack /response..

 

On a end note id like to use third view for taking screenshots of my character call me strange hey holiday snaps in the apoc but as it stands now if i use 3rd i cant help but use it in a way i know isnt in the idea of the game but if your handed a tool you use it to full extent please fix not remove it ....

[BL1P 252]

@SoulFirez 

Although I disagree with making all servers 3rd person.

You can have my beans for well a presented and rational argument for your case :)

[solodude23 649]

I really don't care what happens to tension deficit 3PP servers as long as I have my 1PP to play on. 

[Atomizer 53]

EVERYONE IS FORGETTING ABOUT VEHICLES.

 

Yes, someone on the Elektro Hospital roof can lay prone and spot the entire city for his whole team, and never be seen.

 

Yes, you can be killed outside the fire station because someone hid around the corner, leaning with 3PP on, and quickly killed you.

You never saw them, you could have never seen them and they had the drop on you due to a camera exploit.

 

This is major BS, but I've dealt with it since the MOD.

Deal with it.

3PP off servers are the compromise.

 

I want to be able to land my heli/ drive my car without killing everyone inside it, or damaging it beyond repair.

Mod players: you know you don't drive/fly first person unless you are experienced.

New players trying to drive/fly in 1st person are going to waste alot of vehicle spawns.

 

3PP is needed for vehicles.

In my opinion, vehicles do not come into this at all, vehicles can have third person even in a first person game, and it doesn't exactly bring with it the same issues, good luck trying to third person around corners in a vehicle to try and get the jump on people....and even if you stop the engine and sit in a spot for a while waiting for someone to show up, the moment you jump out(since you likely won't be able to shoot while in a vehicle), assuming it is a first person server, you instantly lose sight of them, and have to make yourself visible to re-spot them.

I personally don't care either way, as I tend to avoid vehicles, though if they were first person only, and I wanted to try them out, I would still do so, and learn how to fly/land in the case of choppers.

One thing you're forgetting about is vehicles can have mirrors, not saying DayZ will have them(though they should), for both choppers and cars, ArmA3 has this feature and it works pretty well for first person(only know about cars, not so sure about helicopters, I do know IRL they have them though for seeing below).

 

But either way, they are not subject to the same "exploit" with third person, due to the other major visibility they bring with them, such as noise and how much bigger and harder to hide they are, and how "uncombat ready" you are when in one.

 

If everyone can do it, it's not an exploit. It's game design.

IRL, if I want to peek around a corner, I don't have to expose my whole head.

It's also possible IRL to see someone when they have no way to see you. Small openings in doors or curtains, etc, which there is no way to replicate in the game.

 

This is the reason there are servers dedicated to 1PP only. Don't like 3PP, stick to 1PP only servers.

Debate over.

 

There are many things you can't do in the game that you can do IRL.

3PP is meant to compensate for the loss of peripheral vision and other limitations of the game.

 

My biggest problem with 1PP is that you can't freelook to the rear to see what's behind you.

IRL I can turn my head 90 degrees, my eyes 30-45 degrees and my waist another 30-45 degrees to see what's behind me while I'm running forward.

Peripheral vision gives me a good idea what's around me without having to turn my head.

In 1PP you don't have that and you lose alot of situational awareness.

In-game, there is a lean option, and you actually do just "peek part of your head", the fact is, you are exposing yourself, no matter how little, but it already exists in-game, yes, you can't currently peek over something, though by the sounds of it, in the coming patches, moving up/down stances like Arma3 will be implemented(correct me if I am wrong, but that's how I understood it), if that is the case, it will let you peek up little by little from behind cover, rather then prone->crouch->stand.

 

As for peeking through small openings, that has nothing to do with first/third person view, you can peek through anything which has a small gap regardless, though I would argue that it would be easier to do in first person, as you can literately put your view right in front of the gap.

 

Peripheral vision doesn't let you see something behind a wall, or around a corner, so I don't see how that is valid, with freelook you can look entirely around you, and if you can't see directly behind you because of your mountain backpack, or because you're prone, you will have to turn your body to see that blindspot, granted IRL you don't also turn your legs and feet around, but it is not a hard thing to do.

 

If you have severe tunnel vision in the game, consider upping your FOV, I have no problem seeing all the way behind me, and I use hunting backpacks for the practical points it adds over the extra storage space of a mountain backpack, it doesn't block your rear view, and it is a good colour for camo.

 

There is actually no benefit to third person in my eyes other then the fact you can spot people around corners/over walls that in no way mimics real senses, or makes up for lack of peripheral(that is what freelook and FOV slider is for).

 

I bring up valid points, because that is how I feel about the subject, and splitting up the community by having separate first person and third person hives isn't a good thing, I however know, that none of this matters, because like it or not, third person isn't going away, and we are already getting a separate, split off community with a separate hardcore hive.

 

I am just glad that since the hardcore hive is where first person is, I will get to experience the more intense mechanic adjustments and possibilities that they will only have for the hardcore hive, and not the regular, third person hive.

[soulfirez 901]

@SoulFirez 

Although I disagree with making all servers 3rd person.

You can have my beans for well a presented and rational argument for your case :)

i wouldnt have all of them on third id still have a 1st person only server ( as even with fourth wall 3rd view makes it easier to land helicopter etc i can land a helicopter in TOH in first view i dont need it for that LOL) Bur just for the general feel of the game for balancing of loot and zeds (loot because you generally move slower in a first person view cause it takes a little longer to scout the scene in first longer =using more food water)

 

I honestly believe something like the 4th wall would make the game tenser for 3rd players and allow me to happily play with them on that server mostling using first (apart from pics and maybe sitting round camp fire lol )as i prefer but not being at a disadvantage in player or zed interactions.

 

When i play alone id still go to what i hope will be around 1st person hardcore mod servers ( on seperate or private hive)not because i think i am hardcore but i like a challenge ...

[mercules 1290]

I want to be able to land my heli/ drive my car without killing everyone inside it, or damaging it beyond repair.

Mod players: you know you don't drive/fly first person unless you are experienced.

New players trying to drive/fly in 1st person are going to waste alot of vehicle spawns.

 

3PP is needed for vehicles.

 

A new player trying to fly is going to wasted a lot of vehicle spawns. End of story.  Check out this video to see that it is very possible to fly in 1st Person since he always plays in First Person.

[BL1P 252]

i wouldnt have all of them on third id still have a 1st person only server ( as even with fourth wall 3rd view makes it easier to land helicopter etc i can land a helicopter in TOH in first view i dont need it for that LOL) Bur just for the general feel of the game for balancing of loot and zeds (loot because you generally move slower in a first person view cause it takes a little longer to scout the scene in first longer =using more food water)

 

I honestly believe something like the 4th wall would make the game tenser for 3rd players and allow me to happily play with them on that server mostling using first (apart from pics and maybe sitting round camp fire lol )as i prefer but not being at a disadvantage in player or zed interactions.

 

When i play alone id still go to what i hope will be around 1st person hardcore mod servers ( on seperate or private hive)not because i think i am hardcore but i like a challenge ...

I see.

 

Could you take a look at http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/165664-vehicle-overhaul-in-dayz-compared-to-arma/

I would be interested to see someone who plays TOHs opinion on the suggestions.

 

And then yes fixing 3rd but still keeping 1st only is a good idea.

[Rantanplan 18]

1PP servers and a separate hive are no solution to the problem at hand. You just divide the player base and roughly double the costs of hosting and maintaining the hives (on what might be high availability servers, and that over years). It may also increase the costs of designing the game for these two hives (balance etc.).

I think it is a better investment to once spend the development time to address the real problem, evaluate it, and maybe find a super solution 1000x better than everything discussed so far...

 

All that the separation achieves is that it reduces the number of players that feel the need to get the issue addressed. And that only temporarily, as with the steady growing player base, the number of 3PP players who demand a change to this game mechanic will grow as well. The separation may just postpone the investment in the design change, but meanwhile maintaining two versions of the game...

 

 

I couldn't care less about the normal 3PP players, enoying the view of themselves, and having a nice and fair game with everybody else on the server.

What I do care about are the people that build their gameplay around such issues. The "best" of those will scout for you with this exploit, then circumnavigate you on a different server (=ghosting), and after they killed you they duplicate the best items they can find on your body. These guys spoil the game for many others, and that's why I'd like their "tools and tactics" thwarted.

 

But preferably in the least intrusive way for the "normal" players. No need to remove 3PP, but improve/reduce/remove the parts that lead to its use as an exploit.

[zhrike 264]

I actually prefer flying helis in 1PP, aside from landing. Even with auto hover, which I'd rather not use, it is almost impossible to land in a wooded area because you just can't see whether there is a bush underneath you. Also, I find it much easier to skim tree tops in first person, plus it looks fucking awesome, and the sound of the rotors is muted. But landing, no. I'd use 3PP landing a heli every time as long as it was there. I don't see any issue driving a vehicle (car, truck, bike, or motorcycle) 1PP only. I don't think I've ever tried a plane or a jet in 1PP. Maybe switched to it, and then panicked "I can't see shit!"

Edited January 17, 2014 by Fukkit

[BrainlessZombie 190]

I believe you're making a problem were there's not.

 

If someone doesn't like 3pp view or people taking advantage of it, that person shoudn't go on servers that allows it, i don't se a problem at all other than there needs to be added an option for server filtering by view type.

Edited January 17, 2014 by BrainlessZombie

[Skinup69 24]

You do know only a 1 % of people that play DayZ will vote on this.

[gibonez 3633]

biggest problem in dayz atm.

 

It is completely game breaking it results in people having firefights where two sides just wait on each other complete joke.

[Skinup69 24]

No no only noobs do that...so u might be one?

biggest problem in dayz atm.

It is completely game breaking it results in people having firefights where two sides just wait on each other complete joke.

[Heiduk 265]

Even with auto hover, which I'd rather not use, it is almost impossible to land in a wooded area because you just can't see whether there is a bush underneath you.

 

You just need a little more practice, or if you piloting skills are anything like mine alot.

 

[Skinup69 24]

If more then 1% of DayZ players vote on this thread ill leave here forever.

[zhrike 264]

You just need a little more practice, or if you piloting skills are anything like mine alot.

 

 

Very nicely done. I'd say a lot. It sure looked like there was some leaf clipping going on there, looked like sure death going down. You are a ballsy fucker. I'm going to try that immediately :-)

[floj 393]

You do know only a 1 % of people that play DayZ will vote on this.

1% sample size for a 1 million population would actually be very significant statistically (99+% confidence interval and 1% margin of error), so long as that's a random selection. But I'm really not expecting 10,000 votes.

 

If it manages to make it to about 400 votes then we get 95% confidence and 5% margin of error which might be attainable and is still incredibly meaningful data.

Edited January 17, 2014 by phlOgistOn

[Heiduk 265]

You are a ballsy fucker. I'm going to try that immediately :-)

 

That was definitely not me flying, I would have undoubtedly augured in shortly after takeoff. Dslyecxi is a crazy good ARMA pilot.

[zhrike 264]

That was definitely not me flying, I would have undoubtedly augured in shortly after takeoff. Dslyecxi is a crazy good ARMA pilot.

 

Ah. I see. Yes, he is. That was nuts. I can fly very well, as I enjoy it and practice in the mission editor and campaigns, but I've never tried that. I've put them down in dense foliage with 3PP, but not 1PP. Sorry for the off-topic digression, OP.

 

A little more on topic: 1PP makes it really hard, and I think he uses TrackIR, which would definitely help for being able to look around without losing one of your control fingers. I am all mouse/keys for flying though I have a joystick. Being able to look down and to the side while simultaneously descending is much tougher for me in 1PP. More practice.

[dsi24 227]

People have been babied too much by third person.

 

They got used to it for exploiting to safely see around corners.

 

They got used to it for being able to fly and drive without actually knowing how to do so.

 

They've had it for so long that they'll fight tooth and nail to hold onto it forever.

 

Don't listen to them.

 

We need one-hundred and nine page megathreads about this bullshit, exploitable, one-sided, forgotten game mechanic every week until it's gone.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Dsi1

[mercules 1290]

That was definitely not me flying, I would have undoubtedly augured in shortly after takeoff. Dslyecxi is a crazy good ARMA pilot.

 

He is... I've tried to pull off some of his flare bleeds he does and plowed into trees, ground, other vehicles and I was doing them about half the speed he does and in 3rd person much of the time. I have actually flown a Mozzie into a railway station and landed it on one of the platforms between train rails in a way I could get out. Dslyecxi would have done it at half to full speed instead of a crawl and just plopped down instantly on the platform instead of maneuvering for a minute or two. Since he plays strictly in first person he is a really good example of how you can actually drive/fly in 1st person, it just takes getting used to it. 

[mercules 1290]

A little more on topic: 1PP makes it really hard, and I think he uses TrackIR, which would definitely help for being able to look around without losing one of your control fingers. 

It does. I bought one with some money from my mom from Christmas and what I was already saving up for hardware and I just realized last night how much I've started to rely on it especially flying/driving. I didn't get it activated before I fired up DayZ and the server was set to restart in 30 minutes so I figured I would just deal with it until the restart. I felt blind not being able to easily look around while flying or even just walking around. It REALLY helps a lot with flying and makes flying in 1st person even more viable.

[Ken Bean 174]

Well with the logic of the 1st person advocates, wouldn't it be less hardcore to use helper like TrackIR or Joysticks?

Isn't it way more hardcore to fly blind, without using hands?

Where is the outcry, that he is in unfair advantage?

Unlike 3rd person, TrackIr is not available for everyone being built in.

Could it be that the one who started that 3rd person hater discussion is using advantage giving gadgets himself?

Would be the mother of irony, I suppose.

But yes, his flying skills definately are adorable. It's just not for everyone.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Ken Bean