Hardcore hive... a solution to the division?

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

"You just want everyone to play how you do."
"Don't tell me how to play the game."

"You want to punish everyone who doesn't share your opinion."

"There's no right way to play this game."

 

These are the types of responses we get a lot when suggesting ways to increase the difficulty of this game. People take offense to it, acting like we want to ruin the game for them. Debates turn into circular arguments with both sides sticking their fingers in their ears and we accomplishing nothing of value.

 

Maybe the hardcore hive(I use the term hardcore because the devs have already called it that) could be the solution to this divide. The ideas that threaten peoples vision of DayZ, could be thrown into the hardcore version, leaving the regular version untouched.

 

I don't want to start listing off things that could be changed in the hardcore hive, because I don't want this thread turning into debates about those things. I want to get peoples opinions about the idea of the game splitting into two different directions, and what positives could come from it.

 

I've always been against dividing the community, but I would rather have a divided community than a game that goes nowhere because a lot of people get upset even at the suggestion of making it more... (for lack of a better term) hardcore.

Edited January 16, 2014 by bad_mojo

[DaveAzoicer (DayZ) 135]

I'm curious about the term "hardcore".

[soulfirez 901]

I can see where you are going with this my only worry is well 1 the time spent making the hardcore functions of the game that many dont want will basicly have the developer not want to do them cost vs demand sort of thing ( i hope i am wrong though )

 

2 people are people we will argue over what goes into the hardcore mode lol even if we both want it hardcore your idea may not match mine.

 

But i feel your pain and as such have expressed such on the thread about modding as i trully believe that is where most people will get as close as possible to what they want . When prvate hives and modded versions of the stand alone (prefect solution nope but it may end up being just that way...

[soulfirez 901]

I'm curious about the term "hardcore".

My guess another buzz word for what simply means a harder difficulty level easily call it very hard mode lol but people love the buzz words so it hardcore ( i can hear the chest thumping now lol )

[DaveAzoicer (DayZ) 135]

My guess another buzz word for what simply means a harder difficulty level easily call it very hard mode lol but people love the buzz words so it hardcore ( i can hear the chest thumping now lol )

 

I figured that much, but what exactly does it mean in DayZ?

I mean the game is already harder than most games (if we would make it exactly like the mod).

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I figured that much, but what exactly does it mean in DayZ?

I mean the game is already harder than most games (if we would make it exactly like the mod).

 

From Rocket(lead developer).... "We want to encourage a "hardcore" mode that will operate on a separate database, featuring things like first person only, no hide body, etc..."

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/156129-confirmed-upcoming-features-for-dayz/

[sab 32]

I figured that much, but what exactly does it mean in DayZ?

 

My guess would be a more difficult approach to it, POTENTIALLY (meaning not confirmed) things like zombies requiring head shots to kill. (Source: Here AS YOU CAN SEE, he only comments on how it's an "interesting idea") Even though it's not confirmed, it could be a possible example of how they could make hardcore servers truly "hardcore". I'm pretty sure 1st person servers will be a guarantee for the hardcore hive at this point. I could only imagine what else there might be in store for the hardcore servers.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Sab

[soulfirez 901]

I figured that much, but what exactly does it mean in DayZ?

I mean the game is already harder than most games (if we would make it exactly like the mod).

What stage of the mod because it was very varied in its difficulty infact once the mod really took of it got easier in one sense and harder in another eg survival stuff became easier finding loot  zeds became easier to kill. the trade of making it harder perhaps was more people with high powered weapons killing you so the difficulty level was a change in major play style from survival to straight pvp deathmatch.

 

But that is all subjective to my experiences. Yes i would say in general Dayz is harder than many ( certainly not all lol ) but i guess some people want to make it harder and some of those will use the buzzword hardcore.

 

My question back is what are you really asking ?? are your perhaps seeking an idea of the mindset of people who use hardcore????

[DaveAzoicer (DayZ) 135]

No, no. I'm all for "hardcore" in games.

By question was answered already now thou. So basically first person, no hiding bodies and so on. Sounds cool.

[Loafy 46]

I like Deans HC Mode idea.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Loafy

[subliminal_city 27]

From Rocket(lead developer).... "We want to encourage a "hardcore" mode that will operate on a separate database, featuring things like first person only, no hide body, etc..."

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/156129-confirmed-upcoming-features-for-dayz/

 

Well that's great, but what is "etc" in this context? That's pretty vague cause it could mean anything.

Personally I feel that it probably won't affect the community that much if there's two different hives, one in which you can only run around in 1PP and one where you can use both. There are already populated 1PP servers and populated mixed servers so. If they're talking about a change in mechanics such as food, drink, healing and such - that would be a bad thing cause that should be equal on all hives in my opinion or just working on mechanics for hardcore  only I think it is probably a waste of resources (wouldn't make any sense to spend months to work on a feature to only include it in a portion of the game).

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Well that's great, but what is "etc" in this context? That's pretty vague cause it could mean anything.

Personally I feel that it probably won't affect the community that much if there's two different hives, one in which you can only run around in 1PP and one where you can use both. There are already populated 1PP servers and populated mixed servers so. If they're talking about a change in mechanics such as food, drink, healing and such - that would be a bad thing cause that should be equal on all hives in my opinion or just working on mechanics for hardcore  only I think it is probably a waste of resources (wouldn't make any sense to spend months to work on a feature to only include it in a portion of the game).

 

"Etc" just means that he wants other things of that nature to be included. I see what you're saying, having to worry about two versions of the game would hurt their development time. But, so far the changes to the hardcore hive are easy things to change. It's more about removing options than adding content. Removing "easy mode" options. Other simple changes would be things like centralizing the time for all servers in the hive, turning down the loot spawn rates, reducing the starting health of a player, increasing the zombies health. Stuff that is just a code change wouldn't really affect their development, but those simple changes would come with a lot of complaining, if they were forced on everyone.

[elf cakes 559]

a hardcore mode would be great! get all the people who want to play CoD on the casual mode with no zombies and 10000 vehicles and instant loot, get all the people who want to play dayZ on the hardcore mode :D works for everyone

[frosti 2165]

My vision of hardcore hive servers:

 

Important: This is with having in mind that log out timer, hunting, vehicles etc. are in game and it is for gameplay not realism.

 

Basicaly the idea is to make players fight for surviving as much as they fight with other players. To make game 50% survival 50% pvp.

 

Features:

 

- players unlock skills over time they survive. Being able to fix, use guns etc. takes time to be unlocked. You have to survive first to do it.

 

- running ability limited. No ulimited running.

 

- ability to sabotage and fix sabotaged wells. Sabotaged wells stays unworking throught server reset untill someone fix them.

 

- advanced medical and injury system (injured hands, feets, legs, eyes etc). It will require more then just bandage up to be fully healed after being shot. Require assitence of other players. etc.

 

-while fighting zombies in melee you risk infection. Killing zombies with bullets highly advised

 

Banditry:

 

- Sanity system. Player that kill other players will require more food,water and medical suplies.

 

This is to make being "bandit" mean something. To be bandit it will require effort and skill. Bandit will be a person that put some effort in killing others and not just a guy that run around and KoS.

 

This will also encourage people to capture and rob, and to be captured and robbed rather then KoS.

 

Something like that I would call hardcore.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Frosti

[DemonGroover 8836]

I for one would not want to see a watered down version of DayZ appear, but if the demand is there for it then the Devs may split DayZ into two separate directions.

[ratiasu@hotmail.co.jp 122]

I don't want a watered down version of DayZ either. I mean, that's the one thing which differentiates DayZ from all the casual games. Should they do it, they should make the hardcore mode the one with the normal, default name, and the wussie version the softcore mode. That way people won't think hc mode is not the default game, which it is, and ensure that the "hc" mode remains populated..

Edited January 16, 2014 by Ratiasu

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I don't think we should get too worked up over the terminology used. Games like Call of Duty and Battlefield have made the term 'hardcore' common for describing increased difficulty. I couldn't care less what it's called, the whole idea that hardcore meaning we're macho is so juvenile. We're playing a video game here, nobody is hardcore in the real sense of the word.

[Publik 404]

I'm against the idea of separate hives, unless there's a way to easily switch characters, maybe once/day or something. On the topic of "no hide body" I don't see why they can't just take Hide Body and make it deeper. If you want to hide a body, you have to drag it somewhere out of sight and let it decay, or dig a shallow grave with a shovel and bury it. Same thing with 3PP; for those that don't want to commit to a lifetime of first-person, they'd still be stuck with a broken and easily abused perspective. The problem with making a separate hive is that it doesn't solve any of the problems, it just hides them in the corner. It's a pretty lazy response.

 

Isn't DayZ supposed to be an antigame? Isn't it supposed to be hard? If they're considering a "hardcore" gametype, could they just call that the default and let people that want an easy time play on the pussy hive?

[ratiasu@hotmail.co.jp 122]

People don't want the hide body feature because they want to be able to go back to their body and take back the stuff their killer didn't take, or they want to be able to find other peoples bodies and get away with a lot of loot cheaply. Lame. Don't want.

I agree it's too easy to bury bodies right now. we'd need a shovel and a pretty long animation when burying it. Preferably ragdoll so we can drag the bodies to dirt/grass.

Alpha. It'll be expanded upon, give it time.

Otherwise bandits will simple smack the body with their hatchets a couple of times to ruin all the stuff inside, anyway. I know I would. No cheap gear for anyone on my expenses. Sorry.

 

Also, Frosty: A sanity system is quite the opposite of what I'd imagine hardcore servers to be like. There should be more incentives to make people team up, difficulty-wise. Not deterrents to shooting each other.

Make food three times as rare, same for medical supplies, etc..

Edited January 16, 2014 by Ratiasu

[Publik 404]

People don't want the hide body feature because they want to be able to go back to their body and take back the stuff their killer didn't take, or they want to be able to find other peoples bodies and get away with a lot of loot cheaply. Lame. Don't want.

Argument could be spun the other way as well. People that do want Hide Body as it is just want an easy way to spite their victims, and just want it to be less of a hassle to camp their favorite sniping spot because people can't notice the danger if there aren't any signs of battle.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I think we all want to be able to drag a body into the bushes like in the Hitman games, but until that's a feature, removing hide body is good with me.

[ratiasu@hotmail.co.jp 122]

Argument could be spun the other way as well. People that do want Hide Body as it is just want an easy way to spite their victims, and just want it to be less of a hassle to camp their favorite sniping spot because people can't notice the danger if there aren't any signs of battle.

They won the fight, after all. I'm not a socialist, nor santa. =p

If I can prevent a player gearing up faster, that's the smart thing to do. Also, when I kill a player, his body and everything on it, is mine and the choice to remove the gear from existence is as well, for whatever reason. I didn't shoot him so he or someone else could get it all back the second they get here again. Don't be lazy and/or casual!

Edited January 16, 2014 by Ratiasu

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

They won the fight, after all. I'm not a socialist, nor santa. =p

If I can prevent a player gearing up faster, that's the smart thing to do. Also, when I kill a player, his body and everything on it, is mine and the choice to remove the gear from existence is as well, for whatever reason. I didn't shoot him so he or someone else could get it all back the second they get here again. Don't be lazy or casual!

 

I think the problem is a click of the mouse shouldn't accomplish what would take an extremely long time in real life.

[Publik 404]

Don't be lazy and/or casual!

Right, so clean up your own mess :P If you're a messy killer you should have to deal with the corpses that pile up.

 

Edit: Somehow the discussion has gone off track. Talk about Hide Body here.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Publik

[ratiasu@hotmail.co.jp 122]

I agree it shouldn't be that simple, but it is the way it is atm. Alpha and all. But taking it out in the meanwhile is not a good temporary solution. They could easily add a random long-ass animation to it or something. The animation for eating beans for all I care.

Click of a mouse or not, it's what made the mod what it was. Tension, emotion, effort put in. But yes, slightly OT. Doubt we'd be able to agree anyway. =p

Edited January 16, 2014 by Ratiasu