Item degradation and hit detection

[beani5003 28]

I don't know if this is pure care-bearing, or done on purpose, but why, for the love of god, when I shoot someone, EVERYTHING they had on them becomes ruined?

I say this is care-bearing to stop people killing others, which is fair to a point, but seriously, ALL the gear? I don't know if they plan on dialing it in or not as I haven't heard anything said about it, but its stupid that if I sneak up on someone, blat a round into the SIDE of the their head, everything that they had in their clothes pockets, the clothes themselves and all the stuff in their pack becomes ruined.

If they have hit detection so blood pours out where you shoot them, surely it would be easy to get it so if you shoot them in the chest the shirt and its contents become damaged, or if shot in the back through their pack, the contents of the pack becomes damaged.

Also, why instantly ruined? makes no sense, worn, damaged or badly damaged for a few of the items, but ALL of them become ruined? I understand that its to stop people shooting others and force them to work together, but makes no sense.

Can someone confirm this stupid result of care-bearing will get dialed down in the course of development, or are we stuck with it as is?

[gray-z@hotmail.co.uk 84]

I feel your pain and have pondered this myself but it is a work in progress and I'm sure that the Devs are working on more pressing issues. But apart from scope attachments, magazines (possibly ammo) the condition of an item doesn't have an effect on its usefulness

Edited January 11, 2014 by G24HAM

[samwalker1995@live.co.uk 17]

The most logical way of looking at it is, the more bullets you use to kill someone means the more shrapnel that damages the Items overall. Less bullets less damage, As its Alpha at the moment though you have to remember they've probably only put in a very early version of Item Degradation.

Probably not really as you put it "Care Bearing" but more of a work in progress.

As the Patches and hot fixes roll in i'm sure the Item Degradation setting will be tweaked. 

Hope that helped! 

[beani5003 28]

The most logical way of looking at it is, the more bullets you use to kill someone means the more shrapnel that damages the Items overall. Less bullets less damage, As its Alpha at the moment though you have to remember they've probably only put in a very early version of Item Degradation.

Probably not really as you put it "Care Bearing" but more of a work in progress.

As the Patches and hot fixes roll in i'm sure the Item Degradation setting will be tweaked. 

Hope that helped! 

 

I would of thought that would only be an issue if your firing fragmentation rounds, as most fragments of a round are likely to stay in the body, as they lose kinetic energy faster, as solid core round like the ones in the game, would simple pass through, albeit with a tumbling effect, like they are supposed to.

But all this begs the question are we getting different types of ammunition eventually?

meh, maybe i'm just over complicating it, its just a pain that's all.

[VincentNZ 5]

I got shot the other day but were able to get my stuff again, it was all ruined apart from anything I had in the topmost inventories like weapons, helmet, gloves etc. Everything in the bag though. My mag though got ruined in the weapon, I guess. I could still use my clothes though, and I believe everything, but my mag, even the stuff in my first aid kit. 

 

Everything is a bit over the top, things should randomly be damaged though, and certain things should get ruined though, the mag in the weapon would be sensible. Conserves, smaller items and general convenience items should not be damageable at all though.

 

As a mechanism it is cool, since it kind of deludes the purpose of killing for gear instead creating an incentive for trading, or maybe even robbing.

[phoboss 224]

I feel your pain and have pondered this myself but it is a work in progress and I'm sure that the Devs are working on more pressing issues. But apart from scope attachments, magazines (possibly ammo) the condition of an item doesn't have an effect on its usefulness

Not entirely true. Clothing condition has a direct effect on how often you start bleeding when hit by zombies. So always go for pristine clothing.

[Frostbyte_ 44]

It has seemed to work prettywell for me.

 

Got shot and only things in my pants were destroyed, shot someone and looted most of what he had (still in their original condition).

[Etherimp 1323]

I don't know if this is pure care-bearing, or done on purpose, but why, for the love of god, when I shoot someone, EVERYTHING they had on them becomes ruined?

I say this is care-bearing to stop people killing others, which is fair to a point, but seriously, ALL the gear? I don't know if they plan on dialing it in or not as I haven't heard anything said about it, but its stupid that if I sneak up on someone, blat a round into the SIDE of the their head, everything that they had in their clothes pockets, the clothes themselves and all the stuff in their pack becomes ruined.

If they have hit detection so blood pours out where you shoot them, surely it would be easy to get it so if you shoot them in the chest the shirt and its contents become damaged, or if shot in the back through their pack, the contents of the pack becomes damaged.

Also, why instantly ruined? makes no sense, worn, damaged or badly damaged for a few of the items, but ALL of them become ruined? I understand that its to stop people shooting others and force them to work together, but makes no sense.

Can someone confirm this stupid result of care-bearing will get dialed down in the course of development, or are we stuck with it as is?

 

 

If you shot someone in the side of their head, the only thing that would be damaged is things on the side of their head... IE - Hat, Glasses, Gasmask, etc.. The reason their entire chest area was destroyed is because that is where you shot them. I have head-shot people before and had ONLY their head damaged, so I know this is true.. Can't speak to the "hit detection" argument, but I haven't had a problem with it.

 

I kind of like the fact that items get destroyed if you kill someone. It forces you to try to interact with the player and rob them like a true bandit, rather than running around playing Call of Duty on a modified ARMA III Engine with a few zombies.

 

If Loot is your goal, try player-interaction. If killing people is your goal, no loot for you.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Etherimp

[csharp 47]

I Have to say that the hit detection is surprisingly good, compared to A2 where head shot was not always counted as one. Yesterday i shot somebody in to the chest and head from 600m and upper body and head gear were ruined. His friend got one well placed 7.62 right to the scull and only head gear was ruined.

 

Shortly after that i got what i deserved, 7.62 right trough my gas mask, and again, only head gear ruined. 

 

I think OP has a point, if i shoot to the chest, why would the vest, jacket, backpack and everything in those things get ruined. Would be nice if they had more hitboxes on them, damaging the gear in the area of that hit box, but i think that it's kinda hard to implement. I also strongly believe that the item damage from bullets is a thing that will change in the following months.

 

I why would your can opener be ruined if it has a hole in the handle? How exactly did it travel trough my protective vest, my ammo box in that chest with 300 7.62 bullets, trough my jacket, shirt, body, jacket, vest, backpack, 10 cans of beans, 10 cans of soda and handcuffs. But like said, i think this is going to change.

[klassent 28]

I think OP has a point, if i shoot to the chest, why would the vest, jacket, backpack and everything in those things get ruined. 

 

That actually makes a fair bit of sense, purely from a hit-detection perspective. If I can fire a 7.62 round through two wooden walls and still hit the mark, it makes sense that it isn't just gonna come to a screeching halt once it hits your squishy bits. This may be purely anecdotal, and moreso even a once-off occurrence, but I had one instance of friendly fire gone wrong where our sniper sorta dinged me in the head with a Mosin while I was prone, and it wrecked EVERYTHING I had on me, save for my weapon. Helmet, vest, backpack, pants, and all the contained gear. Reviewing the shot, sure enough, he hit me from an elevated angle, dead-center; bullet trajectory would have pretty much run the course of my spine, and that was reflected in the container damage. Now, the one realistic argument would be that a center-axis shot like that wouldn't really affect a vest, but item-by-item hit detection really isn't a gamebreaker for me personally. I'm just as happy using location-based detection (hit in the torso, anything on the torso gets ruined) is a happy medium IMO.

[Nanoha 37]

It is to encourage people to rob rather than kill. I do like it but it can be annoying at just how badly everything gets destroyed even after a single bullet. I think it needs to be toned down a little. Perhaps, if a backpack gets hit it chooses a 4x4 area at random and does a little damage to anything in that area instead of you (or just reduces the damage). Surely a backpack full of protective cases stuffed with beans should provide a little protection.

[Ghost43 35]

The other evening I came round a wall at the main airfield and a guy was at a far corner of the wall, rifle raised and crouching,not looking at me. I lined up the psu scope, zeroed to 50 and caught him clean in the side of the helmet.

 

When I checked him, all his head gear was ruined and so was everything in his chest. Trousers and backpack were fine.

 

I just don't know how this works.

[beani5003 28]

 

 

I kind of like the fact that items get destroyed if you kill someone. It forces you to try to interact with the player and rob them like a true bandit, rather than running around playing Call of Duty on a modified ARMA III Engine with a few zombies.

 

If Loot is your goal, try player-interaction. If killing people is your goal, no loot for you.

 

 

That's the whole point about care-bearing, I play as a bandit most of the time, and with the combat logging how it is, it makes more sense to shoot someone that try to capture them (even then they log off anyway). I want to play the game MY way, and that is how the game has been marketed, you make your own stories, but now I;m suddenly forced to try and trade when i'd rather eliminate the risk before hand. It also unjustly punishes people that kill others, hence why I call it care-bearing, god forbid we actually KILL people in a GAME, oh the humanity. I'm surprised they even added weapons into the game with how soft they have gone from the mod.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

OP, there HAS to be a downside to killing someone rather than trading with him, otherwise only helmets/goggles would ever get damaged.

It makes things interesting.

 

Nobody force you to trade, you can still kill people, what's your problem. Pick your style and assume the consequences that come with it.

 

Damn those bandit carebears.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Lady Kyrah

[Etherimp 1323]

That's the whole point about care-bearing, I play as a bandit most of the time, and with the combat logging how it is, it makes more sense to shoot someone that try to capture them (even then they log off anyway). I want to play the game MY way, and that is how the game has been marketed, you make your own stories, but now I;m suddenly forced to try and trade when i'd rather eliminate the risk before hand. It also unjustly punishes people that kill others, hence why I call it care-bearing, god forbid we actually KILL people in a GAME, oh the humanity. I'm surprised they even added weapons into the game with how soft they have gone from the mod.

 

 

You're a whining idiot.

 

Sorry, but there's so much wrong with your post I can't even bother breaking it down. You sound like an entitled crybaby. Crying about killing people and NOT getting their gear.. Wow.. Just.. Wow.

 

There is no such thing as "Care-bearing" in DayZ..

Edited January 11, 2014 by Etherimp

[beani5003 28]

You're a whining idiot.

 

Sorry, but there's so much wrong with your post I can't even bother breaking it down. You sound like an entitled crybaby. Crying about killing people and NOT getting their gear.. Wow.. Just.. Wow.

 

oh, i'm sorry for fucking pointing out something that i consider game breaking, i thought that was the entire fucking point of an alpha? I'm not crying about not getting their loot, i'm saying that why does EVERYTHING they have become ruined from a couple of gunshot wounds?

Go back to your little hippy circle in the middle of elektro you soppy twat

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

oh, i'm sorry for fucking pointing out something that i consider game breaking, i thought that was the entire fucking point of an alpha? I'm not crying about not getting their loot, i'm saying that why does EVERYTHING they have become ruined from a couple of gunshot wounds?

Go back to your little hippy circle in the middle of elektro you soppy twat

Dude, falling through the world is game breaking.

[Etherimp 1323]

oh, i'm sorry for fucking pointing out something that i consider game breaking, i thought that was the entire fucking point of an alpha? I'm not crying about not getting their loot, i'm saying that why does EVERYTHING they have become ruined from a couple of gunshot wounds?

Go back to your little hippy circle in the middle of elektro you soppy twat

 

+1 for effort. 

 

So first, you accuse the game of catering to "Care-bearing", then you admit that it's alpha, and say you think it's game-breaking that gear is ruined even after most of the people in the thread have said that the damage to items inside of your inventory will PROBABLY be toned down, then you get all indignant when someone calls you out on your obvious whining.

 

I won't be in the hippy circle. I'll be the one plopping a 7.62 in your cranium while you try to loot the ruined flashlight off that fresh-spawn you sprayed and prayed with your uber-l33t COD skills.

[beani5003 28]

Dude, falling through the world is game breaking.

 

fair point, but 'game breaking' is subjective to each person, I would just call fall through the world a bug.

[beani5003 28]

+1 for effort. 

 

So first, you accuse the game of catering to "Care-bearing", then you admit that it's alpha, and say you think it's game-breaking that gear is ruined even after most of the people in the thread have said that the damage to items inside of your inventory will PROBABLY be toned down, then you get all indignant when someone calls you out on your obvious whining.

 

I won't be in the hippy circle. I'll be the one plopping a 7.62 in your cranium while you try to loot the ruined flashlight off that fresh-spawn you sprayed and prayed with your uber-l33t COD skills.

 

and if you read my original post, I said I thought it would be dialed down a bit.

ahh, I have to laugh, 1) i don't like/play COD 2) i don't kill fresh spawns, i tend to mill about around NWAF or on the western side of the map.

[Etherimp 1323]

and if you read my original post, I said I thought it would be dialed down a bit.

ahh, I have to laugh, 1) i don't like/play COD 2) i don't kill fresh spawns, i tend to mill about around NWAF or on the western side of the map.

 

 

And by mill about, you mean server hop for the l33test gear?

[beani5003 28]

And by mill about, you mean server hop for the l33test gear?

 

no, i mean i'm usually sat in a bush waiting for the rest of the people in my clan to get on, so yeah, your wrong, but good try though, keep up the good work, you might get it right one of these days

[Etherimp 1323]

Everyone knows nobody goes to NWAF except server hoppers.. :P All the uber-l33t bandits are down in Elektro shooting fresh spawns.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Etherimp

[djporternz 644]

This again! You fire bullets at stuff and it f'ks it up. End of!

[-DMG-Jonesy 226]

This is pretty simple to get around.

 

Shoot people in the head, unless you're killing them for their sweet bobble hat.

 

If I intend to loot a player, I always shoot for the head or legs.  If I don't care, center mass.  

Not that "ruined" really seems to apply to anything at the moment..