NOT just another skills post.

[ambiguousFoo 12]

First, for those of you who haven't seen it, check out this vid (the inspiration for this post)

 

For those who don't click above, some Russian guy shows us how to open a can of beans with his bare hands.  Thankfully, now that I know his method, I will not die due to lack of can opener in the upcoming zombie apocalypse. 

 

So why then, would I have to meet this demise in Dayz?  What if my character could learn cool tricks?  

 

Now just to be clear, I am NOT suggesting classes or traits/abilities (character stat modifications).  

 

I AM suggesting that characters can LEARN and SHARE knowledge that can increase their utility/survival chances.  This does a couple of things...

 

- it empowers players with intrinsic value which can increase the complexity of character interactions.  When encountering a new player, consider the choice between shooting them for loot or opening dialogue to see if they can provide a skill.

 

- it adds tactical complexity to the game.  Consider in this implementation then that a proper knowledge of medicine may be required to efficiently bandage or apply IVs. 

 

- it can add value to books or similar items that may assist with or partially provide knowledge, creating a additional value vector that increases tactical depth (consider existing vectors as weapons and food/medical)

 

With the above in mind consider then that:

 

- with proper implementation, this doesn't need to collide with the extant paradigm of "Player Skill vs. Avatar Skill".  Rather, such learned abilities would instead impact item interaction menus, or modify the efficacy of existing item actions.

 

- learned skills might be incremental (applying bandages enough times, handling enough firearms, ATTEMPTING to repair vehicles enough times through trial and error)

  EDIT: feedback in this thread indicates this would likely be a bad idea (players gaming the system to 'level up' skills would be stupid)

 

- EDIT: There should be no skill trees, this approach would be more recipe/guide singleton based.

 

- EDIT: items that provide skill knowledge would need to be consumed if advantage #1 above (adding to player's intrinsic value) were to be leveraged. (otherwise skills just become something else you can loot off of a player (if they have a guide/book/recipe))

 

- new players should begin with NO learned skills (for the same reasons new players start with no gear - organized players would then be able to easily game the system with respawns).

 

- the existing first person dialogue indicator could be used to indicate unfamiliarity with an acquired or held item.  For example, while holding a defibrillator in hands my completely noob of a character may emote "I have no idea what this contraption is for" and my only action menu item might be "Press button" ( which could easily kill or possibly help the person I am trying to defibrillate).

 

 

P.S.  I swar I DID DO A SEARCH on the terms skills/traits/abilities and came up with surprisingly few results for what I expected to be a relatively 'spammed' topic.  For those incoming trolls coming in to shoot down the ideas posed above please consider that as far as I have researched, the above implementation/approach has not been discussed, and that a high volume of discussion around a particular topic (as indicated by # of posts) indicates a high demand for a given feature and, as proper dayz fanboys, we should all do our best to help the devs by brainstorming and fleshing out these kinds of ideas.

 

Thanks!

 

TDLR:  Add the ability for players to LEARN and SHARE item related skills (like opening a can of beans without a can opener)

Edited January 10, 2014 by ambiguousFoo

[colekern 1364]

I... I actually like this idea. This actually seems really cool. It would be a great way to encourage interaction too.

[cywehner1234 582]

Not a skill tree, but maybe recipes that you can find around the map, something like that. Have them in notebooks or something, and I actually approve this. +1

[dubghall 36]

I prefer this technique for my beans!   As for the rest i hope for no skill progression in this game since it pushes the game in the direction of others rather than emphasizing whats unique about the game...

[VuRaL 46]

I actually liked the idea.

But just thinking how it would effect the game if applied.

You would see players standing in a corner, applying all the bandages he found to get skill on that. Or a military guy doing reloading and shooting to empty fields just to get better handling...

This would become some kind of macro farming.

However, I would love finding recipes for cooking, guides for defibrillator, or a guide to repair a car. Which would let you do things you could not do before. Which would be consumed when used so players will have to interact to have the knowledge they had besides than taking those from pockets of corpses...

[ambiguousFoo 12]

 

 

I prefer this technique for my beans!   As for the rest i hope for no skill progression in this game since it pushes the game in the direction of others rather than emphasizing whats unique about the game...

 

Can you elaborate on how learned/shared skills detracts from what is unique about this game, or what you consider unique about this game?  

 

As for pushing the game in direction of other games, Dayz will inherently possess a large base of common properties with other games within the genre it shares (FPS, Sandbox, Survival).  

 

To self answer my question above, I think that what makes Dayz unique (imo) is it's unique mix of 'simulation/realism' (from ye old Arma engine) and 'game'.  An improper implementation of skills could push it more towards 'game' (which I would consider detracting from uniqueness, others may disagree) or push Dayz more towards 'simulation/realism' (not being able to apply IVs without medical knowledge) which imo would enhance it's uniqueness.

[dubghall 36]

To be clear: yes I changed my signature in honor of your vid, having tried it out lol.

Well, I suppose i was too brief... and to be clear - I love the idea that you could get better at the things you learn....

Big trouble with me is what we saw happen in other games like Darkfall Online... which was mentioned above with people doing random shit over and over just to skillup.  Youd need a whole counter macro system on top...  Unless for example you connect it to social or cooperative efforts and limit progression to one unit of progress per player interaction.  So Player A and B could practice their med skills on one another but after their bandaging etc got better from the interaction once... it wouldnt go up anymore unless they found others to practice with... etc (same for any combat related skills).  I definitely would like not to see point buyin system etc... since it really would make the game feel more like a game... and remove me from my char with slide bars and skilltrees etc.  I hope the whole system if it ever were implemented would be invisible, so that I would never know how good i was at IVs compared to you except by in-game events.

You know what might be cool though... someone else suggested a "converse" option when you meet someone in game... wouldnt it be interesting if converse had  dropdowns and that conversing could benefit you both...  I can see two groups of three meeting... and sitting by a fireplace picking some ways they could help each other (reveal loot on maps, increase skills, or decrease stress, whatever).  Also book reading, guides as stated above...

These things would give you something to focus on other than loot that would benefit you still... without being an obvious immersion breaking "mechanic"



 

Edited January 10, 2014 by spcmonkey

[ambiguousFoo 12]

Yes, I think it is clear after some of the feedback that the incremental growth portion of the OP would be difficult if not impossible to implement without adding unwanted elements to the game.  That being said, I updated the OP saying as much.

 

Great feedback... lets keep this going... I think adding value to player interactions can only be a good thing.  The value involved in player interactions in Star Wars Galaxies for example were really cool - you could learn languages and skills (and for mastery skills you could only learn them from another master) from other players.

[IcyBlade 48]

Very good idea. However I don't think that it would suit the game as so far arbitrary stats or skill have been avoided and is part of what give the game its unique feel and game play.

Edited January 10, 2014 by IcyBlade

[joe_mcentire 2073]

http://www.reddit.com/r/DayZBulletin/comments/1nt82m/player_skill_vs_avatar_skill/

 

cite as you will

Edited January 10, 2014 by joe_mcentire