Solving Both End-Game/Meta-Game and KoS Problems At Once

[Pendulum Effect 15]

DO NOT USE THE ARGUMENT KoS IS FINE. IT IS FINE. THESE ARE OPTIONS TO INITIATE OTHER FORMS OF PLAY, OTHER THAN KoS. I ENJOY IT BEING IN THE GAME. HOWEVER, IT SHOULD NOT BE THE ONLY WAY TO PLAY THE GAME. 

 

People who DO NOT read the OP are either too lazy or too stupid to participate in the conversation. Posts that say, "omg kill on sight is fine, you're a pussy, cry-baby, whiner" or the like are not constructive to the conversation because the topic is not on the removal of kill on sight. In addition, you probably have not done your research as thoroughly on the game and thus you are missing the key point: Rocket himself has said that the inventory degradation is designed to deter kill on sight banditry and he is actively looking for outlets to further deter banditry as it stands in the game currently. If you ignore this fact, then you yourself are an ignoramus and a fool, not I.  

 

Oh, here you go, I did your research for you. Fast forward to 12:30 to hear Rocket himself say that he wants to change the way Kill of Sight works by giving players something to think about. INTERESTING:

 

 

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TL;DR

 

This forum topic is best viewed in it's entirety and should not be judged by the hasty and horribly dumbed down TL;DR summary. In short, my proposal is that Kill on Sight is roughly the only way to play the game and while I'm not lobbying for it's removal (because it is a HUGE part of the game), I want more options to encourage team work for those who want different avenues of play other than a "mil-sim version of Battlefield." Currently, KoS is the ONLY way to play (more-or-less). This would work in conjunction by solving the horrible end game content (or lack thereof). Adding the equivalent of helicopter crash sites (albeit with different twists on them) in the form of random abandoned military bases and different wrecks and the inclusion of a reason to deviate from the standard "gather supplies in the south then head north until dead" gameplay. This would include a military harbor island in the South with the rarest form of military loot and the highest quality base-building materials, complete with a monumental challenge: tons and tons of slightly more difficult zombies (hundreds of zombies, respawning to create illusion of several thousand), a ton of area/buildings to explore and loot, and the ultimate goal being the aircraft carrier docked at the far end of the island. You could attack it in different ways, utilizing as many or as few people as you wanted, and mastering it means you'd be able to create efficient ways of utilizing your creations as you build them (i.e. helicopters and armored cars) to tackle the challenge in different ways or become more efficient. Could create interesting PvP, Cooperative and PvE play. Read entire post for more details as this TL;DR doesn't do it justice. In short, don't judge the ideas based on this alone!

 

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Full Post:

 

This is a snippet from a post that I made on a wonderfully put together Suggestions forum by MR DELICIOUS here: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/162663-how-to-make-the-map-more-engaging/, but decided that the content I'm posting here could also be served as a both a suggestion and a discussion. This is meant to discuss the possibility of these ideas solving the aforementioned issues. Any other map suggestions should go to the link posted above.

 

{Edited 13:49 1/7/2014 for those who aren't going to read the posts garnered in this forum before replying. Arguments are already inserted for cohesiveness.]

 

A little background: I am a DayZ purist, meaning I'm against the inclusion of anything gimmicky and totally not in line with what Rocket has in mind for the future of this game. I believe that the suggestions I am about to make are not perfect, but would still provide a good skeleton or framework for some interesting ideas in the future development of the game. I do not support acquired in-game skills that give you an edge based on time played or leveling, I don't support NPC's that patrol safe zones and the like, nor interfaces for which to interact with non living entities. DayZ is about players doing what players do, to create stories. The avatar that you create should never know more than what you know in real life. You shoot better because the person behind the keyboard has got actual practice with the firearm, etc. Anyone who wants the framework of this game to go towards something gimmicky, arcade-like or MMO-esk, should stop playing this game. That being said, here we go:

 

The world of DayZ is incredibly static and not a whole lot goes on after you've been geared and travel North. Yes, it's in Alpha, but this was kind of a running problem in the mod, too. These ideas are meant to spark/kickstart the community into doing more than be bland bandits. This will open up new opportunities for bigger betrayals, but also bigger cooperation. Especially with the third idea, which I'm most proud of. Stick around for that one, if nothing else.

 

-Aircraft: I'd like to see the inclusion of mysterious aircraft, on random spawn timers, unaffected by server restarts. These aircraft can fly overhead and drop supplies, crash, or possibly land. The AI controlling these vehicles will instantly despawn if they land (or perhaps just die in the cockpit due to injuries sustained). Crashes and landed aircraft will be home to zombies roaming. This could get people to follow aircraft in the hopes of stealing supplies or even the vehicle itself. This could also make for interesting PvP or friendly player encounters. The origin of these aircraft is unknown, but players can RP that the military is sending supplies, reconing the area for potential incursion or research.

-Randomly spawned bases: Now this can be a bit of a problem as bases are more static and immovable. For vehicles, they would either be destroyed by the flames or stolen for people to use, thus creating a convenient way for these objects to disappear from the map after a set amount of time. Bases, however, can be tricky to remove from the map, or even add. It can be immersion breaking if done incorrectly. My current idea is that these bases would spawn in a similar manner to Wasteland (in areas that are unoccupied by survivors and are out of line of sight), the materials can be used for building bases of your own, or be entirely taken over if one wishes. This would be a great way to attract other players for the possibility of loot, building supplies, vehicles and zombie killing. There would be NO NPCs, only zombies.These would be heavily fortified bases. It's defenses could be turned on other survivors. To add a twist as well as functionality: the bases are on self-destruction timers. A survivor has a set amount of time to find a base after it spawns or the self destruct protocol kicks in. It is possible to delay it via a computer terminal or by adding more fuel to the generator, but do you take the risk going in if it could explode at any moment? It makes sense that the military would have such a feature, in case the base was overrun or unguarded after a certain amount of time. The explosion would destroy the base and clear it from the map, cutting back on server resource allocation. Could also be home to zombies that are more durable; body armor and helmets make them more difficult to take down. Think of the riot gear zombie from Walking Dead.

-Island Raids: Now before you bash me and say that this is not World of Warcraft and such, hear me out. This has the MOST potential out of anything. Currently there is little reason to head to the islands other than to make bases or camps that are more difficult for other survivors to take over. I for one would like to see them utilized for something really epic and in layman's terms, end game content. In one of the versions of the DayZ mod there was an aircraft carrier outside of Chernogorsk. What if one of islands was home to a giant military base/harbor, much like Pearl Harbor. This base could have an aircraft carrier docked, but eerily abandoned. Why? This was the place they ferried thousands of survivors in the final hours of the outbreak in the hopes to sail somewhere unaffected by the plague. However, things went horribly wrong and obviously some of the infected made it over. A massacre ensued, leaving the entire Island infested by zombies. The real twist here is that currently the objective of the game is to travel North after gathering supplies in the South. After that, the game stagnates and becomes about killing other players so they don't kill you for your gear. This game mechanic would force people to gather supplies for the trek North, build a base, fix a car and then ultimately head back South, brave the gauntlet of new players (Bambies) looking for highly geared players to kill and then go to this military Island. You could acquire a speed boat for this trek, you could eventually get a ferry complete with spots for vehicles, or you could spend time swimming. This island is home to a myriad of zombie types (based on the zombie life cycle), just like Dean Hall has envisioned for his game. In addition to regular zombies of the life cycle, Alpha zombies, a faster and deadlier version of what's on the main land. To enforce the notion that thousands of people were trying to evacuate this area, there will be a pool of as many zombies as they can comfortably spawn in this location. But they will respawn if killed. This will present a highly significant challenge as wave after wave of zombies will throw themselves at you, but really only if you make too much noise. Going it alone is doable, but you must be highly skilled and bring a lot of ammo, but you will probably die 99% of the time. This also presents an opportunity: cooperation! Being so difficult, you would most likely need to find a group of people to take over in order to survive. You could attack at day. Or you could attack at night with night vision! You could take a group of four, equipped with suppressed weapons and stealth your way across the island, looting as you go. You could take a group of 10, going a hybrid of stealth and loud. You could place snipers on the roofs of several buildings, giving cover to the rest of the group. Or you could go with 20-30 people, create a massive assault on the base where you clear the base moving as if you were a wildfire. Friendly fire could ensue. People could be picked off by zombies and you could watch your numbers slowly dwindle until you find yourself alone or scattered, being swarmed. You could finally finish sweeping the entire base (this would be an hours long task, with mid to high end military loot) with your group, finally ending at the air craft carrier at the far end (Ultra high quality military loot and the jackpot of all loot spawns), only to turn on each other. Or you could agree to meet up for another run at a later date, keeping a cooperative spirit that would last. Do you kill on sight now? You could be killing the same guy you raided with earlier. Now he's devoid of gear and won't show up to the next raid. You're shit out of luck, because he was the one with the keys to the Ferry you used to get your armored Humvee to that island. You need to find another group now, Champ. Do you kill Bambies, or do you go to the South to help them survive, nurture them and groom them to become a part of your team to raid this island? This would help enforce communities and even servers where people will tend to logon to most often in the hopes of finding people they played with once. I must also point out that, by design, server hopping would be entirely impossible on this island due to the massive amount of zombies respawning. If you were to spawn anywhere on this island, you would be overrun and mauled within seconds. Zombies would even spawn in buildings. It would probably be best, too, if stashes were implemented before this, as people would want to hoard as much weapons and supplies as they can, just in case they die. Also, if going to do this island raid, you will most likely want to stash everything but medical supplies and magazines for your weapons. Explosives may be necessary. Include an option to pull the pin on the grenade and blow yourself up, just in case you get trapped. Like C.J. from Dawn of the Dead (2004) with his propane tank in the van. Martyrdom at its finest.

 

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EDITS, REVISIONS & FURTHER CLARIFICATIONS:

 

My idea with the islands is a tricky thing.. It's not meant to be Dead Island on steroids or Left for Dead. It's not supposed to have different "types" of zombies (where there's a bloated zombie that bursts everywhere or a zombie that screams and stuns you), just slightly faster, slightly more agile, slightly more damaging, etc. Something that's based on Dean's idea of the zombie life cycle and his idea for the Alpha zombies. The idea that zombies respawn comes from the fact that this Island is supposed to be rather large (Elektro or Cherno in size, with a docked carrier at the far end). It's not technically feasible, at least to my knowledge, to have a thousand zombie spawn in that one location. Even if the network bubble or server could sustain that many zombies, it's unlikely that a mid-ranged computer could process that many zombies at once. To maintain the illusion that the entire island is infested, zombies would respawn but not necessarily throw themselves at you. They would respond to stimuli gathered around their particular spawn point (preferably out of vision of survivors) and that would affect if they would attack or not. So theoretically, if you were quiet enough with taking down all the zombies that you aggroed, no more would attack you. However, the number of zombies you killed would respawn somewhere on that island in idle mode. But if you go in guns blazing, they will likely keep swarming from their set spawn location due to the amount of noise you make, probably from several hundred meters away. It could be possible for you to "clear" the zombies, as there could be a set number of times each zombie could respawn before they are "dead for good." This way the illusion is kept and it's still "realistic" in that you killed every zombie on that island. Trust me, when I suggest this idea, I mean it in the least possible way for it to be arcade-like. I remember trying to extract one of my friends who was new to the game from Berezino and we were just shooting every zombie because we were cornered. We ended up on a scaffolding before we were finally overrun. But it was fun like that. That's the kind of experience I want for this island, except more intense. Stealth is almost paramount in it.

 

The game, as it is right now, does not simulate a true experience for losing your humanity. I don't want the game to decide whether I'm a bad person, or if I'm going insane or if I feel bad for killing someone. In the past, Dean has used a meager score to judge if you were a bad person or not. The use of skins were utilized to give a player the sense of dwindling personality, and also give other players a visual representation of what a persons intent was. Sure, what I'm suggesting is not a perfect fix, but the game is a psychopath simulator. It's either kill or be killed with no realistic repercussions to yourself. Sure, you can mount an attack on the "Sniper in Cherno" who's griefing the new spawns, but there's no common ground for which to meet someone outside the forums. That's immersion breaking for me. The common ground mechanic that I'm proposing is simply providing new ways to cooperate that require multiple people to tackle. You can choose to ignore them if you wish and just resort to banditry, but you will lose out on some great mechanics that are fresh and fun.

 

The issue with that particular mentality (and Dean needs suggestions on how to balance it), is that currently there is nothing stopping people from killing on sight. The whole idea of item degradation from bullet damage is to make people think before shooting and instead taking alternate routes to attain a person's gear. Either get a clean shot on their head, take them hostage, bind them or team up was supposed to be the outcome of the encounter, as Dean had intended. While it has certainly helped, there's still no real repercussions to killing on sight. People have wanted stupid ideas like your character becoming more insane and shake. That takes the player out of the game and makes things artificial. What Dean wants is something that makes people really think on whether or not they should kill a person or not. He wants the risk vs reward of being friendly or a bandit to be more evenly balanced. KoS is, and always should be, a part of the game. There should just be more thought behind the taking of life. What better way than to give highly geared people a productive outlet to channel their boredom and gear? Banditry is still an option, but it's not the only option this way.

 

KoS, as of right now, is seen as the only option rather than one option of several. You have much more to gain by killing (life, gear and safety of your friends) than letting them live. Yes, you may get a temporary ally, but 99.9% of the time when you turn your back, you'll be dead. Having a higher end goal that requires multiple people to complete could possibly give the player more to ponder before pulling the trigger. I know that when I'm with my two friends, we'll pull the trigger almost every time on anyone we see, simply because it took us 45-60 minutes to meet up and we don't want to wait another 45 to link up with someone if they are shot while trying to be nice. However, if we had a common goal late game, we might think twice and recruit this person to come along to that island, if only for a meat shield. Sometimes we're given a lot of options, but those options are rendered useless because the climate doesn't effectively utilize them. Just trying to think of a way to balance the pros and cons of all strategies and mentalities.

 

Again, the kill on sight mentality is not meant to be removed from the game. No, it's not broken. It's imbalanced. This is not an opinion that I'm expressing, but rather one that Dean Hall himself has addressed as being an issue that he would like to see resolved. So read the posts before saying that I'm trying to bring CareBears into DayZ. In real life, you'd feel bad if you killed someone out of cold blood having had no provocation. After awhile you might not feel so bad, killing people for fun or for no reason. How do you simulate going insane without taking control from the player? Answer: Giving them a lofty goal, unattainable without the aid of others, and killing a person that could help you get there. There's nothing wrong with the little things in place now, but higher risk = higher reward.

 

The ideas in this post are future goals for the game after the implementation of everything Dean wants as a baseline. We can ALWAYS craft our own experiences, but randomly spawned aircraft or bases are exactly like helicopter crash sites. The infested military island is just like the proposed zombie horde, that could be wandering through the NWAF. It just happens to be on an island, where there's no where for the zombies to go. These mechanics have always been or have always been wanted in the game by Dean! They're just given some focus, some variety and some relative life to an otherwise cookie cutter, uninteresting world. Sure, there are signs of zombie outbreaks and desolation, but the military presence there seems as if it never made an effort to do anything to halt the advance of the infected or save the citizens. That's all.

 

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CONCLUSION:

 

So, there's my list. I'll come back to it if I come up with more ideas, but as it stands, these are the most interesting (in my opinion) ideas to keep the game fresh and interesting, especially after you've done all you can in the game as it is right now. Feel free to amend, add to or even use my ideas as a template for further endeavors. I'll follow this post. I hope it gets attention from both the community and the dev team.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Pendulum Effect

[atmaca (DayZ) 48]

Random air drops - yes

Everything else - NO

[atmaca (DayZ) 48]

#doublepost

Edited January 7, 2014 by atmaca

[WierdBeard 18]

Dunno about random bases, but some randomly spawned bivouacs might not be game breaking.  Less base like and more a squad's hastily abandoned camp with a few scattered magazines or equipment.  Mostly as an enticement to go into the wilderness outside checking deer stands.  Just a thought.

[quobble 175]

No random server caused events.

Supply drops are dumb...we all saw that in the mod.

 

Rocket said there will be no random events anymore except player caused stuff like a real person crashing with a chopper because he was too stupid to fly.

I hope it will stay like this.

[Pendulum Effect 15]

No random server caused events.

Supply drops are dumb...we all saw that in the mod.

 

Rocket said there will be no random events anymore except player caused stuff like a real person crashing with a chopper because he was too stupid to fly.

I hope it will stay like this.

 

Sure, then since this is a discussion, do you have any ideas for how to reduce KoS mentality? Or how about the severe and crippling stagnation of end game? Don't call my ideas stupid if you don't have any yourself.

[ratiasu@hotmail.co.jp 122]

Sure, then since this is a discussion, do you have any ideas for how to reduce KoS mentality? Or how about the severe and crippling stagnation of end game? Don't call my ideas stupid if you don't have any yourself.

Additions like highly modifiable vehicles and bases should fix the no-endgame problem, and somewhat reduce KOS. Of course there will still be a lot of KOS, but that's fine with me.

 

I don't agree with supply drops for multiple reasons. 1) It's AI 2) It makes no sense some mysterious faction, or even a government would randomly drop valuable and limited supplies to a bunch of random survivors. I don't mind the random heli-crashes, though. Actually, I love them.

 

I agree on the islands, though I do not agree with the Left for Dead-ish thing that zombies should spawn like it's Dead Island on steroids. Yes, it would be challenging, and maybe fun, if it wasn't DayZ. Too arcade-ish. 

 

I made a small post on Reddit about islands a long time ago. I'll link it here. Also, at the time I wrote that, Utes was actually part of the map. If you check out the leaked 03/2013 alpha, you can check it out.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Ratiasu

[Hetstaine 10852]

You will never cure kos with any sort of mechanic. If all we had as a weapon was a thick branch then club fights would be in vogue. The only thing you can do is keep your chin up and your ass covered :)

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

There is a KoS problem?

 

Anyway as the game stands right now you have two things people complain about server hopping and KoS. Well with loot not respawning after a server is picked clean you only have two options. Hop to another server or kill people and take their stuff. It will get better as the game progresses, but KoS will always and should always be part of the game.

[Pendulum Effect 15]

Additions like highly modifiable vehicles and bases should fix the no-endgame problem, and somewhat reduce KOS. Of course there will still be a lot of KOS, but that's fine with me.

 

I don't agree with supply drops for multiple reasons. 1) It's AI 2) It makes no sense some mysterious faction, or even a government would randomly drop valuable and limited supplies to a bunch of random survivors. I don't mind the random heli-crashes, though. Actually, I love them.

 

I agree on the islands, though I do not agree with the Left for Dead-ish thing that zombies should spawn like it's Dead Island on steroids. Yes, it would be challenging, and maybe fun, if it wasn't DayZ. Too arcade-ish. 

 

I made a small post on Reddit about islands a long time ago. I'll link it here. Also, at the time I wrote that, Utes was actually part of the map. If you check out the leaked 03/2013 alpha, you can check it out.

 

Alright, good. Someone who actually has constructive criticisms.

 

The only reason I suggest airdrops and such is because Rocket still hasn't really said (at least to my knowledge) if this is a contained outbreak on this certain country, or if it's a world-wide phenomenon. I suppose part of the magic is making you decide what happened and telling us would ruin part of the "tell your own story" vibe. My intent is to get more spontaneity with the surroundings without making them seem gimmicky or artificial. Roaming hordes of zombies would make for a nice little addition, but as of right now that future implementation is the biggest form of "non-static" event to be placed in the game. 

 

My idea with the islands is a tricky thing.. It's not meant to be Dead Island on steroids or Left for Dead. It's not supposed to have different "types" of zombies (where there's a bloated zombie that bursts everywhere or a zombie that screams and stuns you), just slightly faster, slightly more agile, slightly more damaging, etc. Something that's based on Dean's idea of the zombie life cycle and his idea for the Alpha zombies. The idea that zombies respawn comes from the fact that this Island is supposed to be rather large (Elektro or Cherno in size, with a docked carrier at the far end). It's not technically feasible, at least to my knowledge, to have a thousand zombie spawn in that one location. Even if the network bubble or server could sustain that many zombies, it's unlikely that a mid-ranged computer could process that many zombies at once. To maintain the illusion that the entire island is infested, zombies would respawn but not necessarily throw themselves at you. They would respond to stimuli gathered around their particular spawn point (preferably out of vision of survivors) and that would affect if they would attack or not. So theoretically, if you were quiet enough with taking down all the zombies that you aggroed, no more would attack you. However, the number of zombies you killed would respawn somewhere on that island in idle mode. But if you go in guns blazing, they will likely keep swarming from their set spawn location due to the amount of noise you make, probably from several hundred meters away. It could be possible for you to "clear" the zombies, as there could be a set number of times each zombie could respawn before they are "dead for good." This way the illusion is kept and it's still "realistic" in that you killed every zombie on that island. Trust me, when I suggest this idea, I mean it in the least possible way for it to be arcade-like. I remember trying to extract one of my friends who was new to the game from Berezino and we were just shooting every zombie because we were cornered. We ended up on a scaffolding before we were finally overrun. But it was fun like that. That's the kind of experience I want for this island, except more intense. Stealth is almost paramount in it.

 

 

There is a KoS problem?

 

Anyway as the game stands right now you have two things people complain about server hopping and KoS. Well with loot not respawning after a server is picked clean you only have two options. Hop to another server or kill people and take their stuff. It will get better as the game progresses, but KoS will always and should always be part of the game.

 

No, there's not a KoS problem, per se.

 

The issue with that particular mentality (and Dean needs suggestions on how to balance it), is that currently there is nothing stopping people from killing on sight. The whole idea of item degradation from bullet damage is to make people think before shooting and instead taking alternate routes to attain a person's gear. Either get a clean shot on their head, take them hostage, bind them or team up was supposed to be the outcome of the encounter, as Dean had intended. While it has certainly helped, there's still no real repercussions to killing on sight. People have wanted stupid ideas like your character becoming more insane and shake. That takes the player out of the game and makes things artificial. What Dean wants is something that makes people really think on whether or not they should kill a person or not. He wants the risk vs reward of being friendly or a bandit to be more evenly balanced. KoS is, and always should be, a part of the game. There should just be more thought behind the taking of life. What better way than to give highly geared people a productive outlet to channel their boredom and gear? Banditry is still an option, but it's not the only option this way.

[pillerking@yahoo.com 72]

No random server caused events.

Supply drops are dumb...we all saw that in the mod.

 

Rocket said there will be no random events anymore except player caused stuff like a real person crashing with a chopper because he was too stupid to fly.

I hope it will stay like this.

 

is that true ? where did rocket say that ?

searching for heli crashes was what kept me playing dayz :/

[raynor009 204]

KOS is not a problem. Its free will.

[atmaca (DayZ) 48]

I don't agree with supply drops for multiple reasons. 1) It's AI 2) It makes no sense some mysterious faction, or even a government would randomly drop valuable and limited supplies to a bunch of random survivors. I don't mind the random heli-crashes, though. Actually, I love them.

I also agree there shouldnt be an AI airplane dropping supplies. However, randomly dropped crates can be spawned on server start. Also with removing all military loot from military bases, this will obviously cure base rush problem. The only way to access militay equipment will be searching the map and wandering around for hours.

For realism and story aspect, you may think those drops were left behind and forgotten by army before they leave chernerus.

[Pendulum Effect 15]

KOS is not a problem. Its free will.

 

Yes, but as of right now, it's seen as the only option rather than one option of several. You have much more to gain by killing (life, gear and safety of your friends) than letting them live. Yes, you may get a temporary ally, but 99.9% of the time when you turn your back, you'll be dead. Having a higher end goal that requires multiple people to complete could possibly give the player more to ponder before pulling the trigger. I know that when I'm with my two friends, we'll pull the trigger almost every time on anyone we see, simply because it took us 45-60 minutes to meet up and we don't want to wait another 45 to link up with someone if they are shot while trying to be nice. However, if we had a common goal late game, we might think twice and recruit this person to come along to that island, if only for a meat shield. Sometimes we're given a lot of options, but those options are rendered useless because the climate doesn't effectively utilize them. Just trying to think of a way to balance the pros and cons of all strategies and mentalities.

[quobble 175]

Sure, then since this is a discussion, do you have any ideas for how to reduce KoS mentality? Or how about the severe and crippling stagnation of end game? Don't call my ideas stupid if you don't have any yourself.

"KOS" doesnt need to be cured, fixed or lowered.

People decide wether they kill someone or not.

 

It all depends on peoples mentality. If a freshspawns comes charging at me Ill shoot him. Even if hes constantly screaming "im friendly im friendly".

 

He could be lying.

So if you want to aproach someone and let him know you are friendly, do it slowly and lower your weapon AND your defense.

 

Also, gear breaks when you fill someone with bullets.

the only KOS thats happening is either when a person is a douchbag and just wants to kill, when a Bandit wants supplies or when a person charges at someone although he is maybe friendly.

 

The only thing that needs to be improved is the gear damage. It needs to be worked out into detail.

Also, we need more threats other than players to players.

 

When there are more zombies, and especially more deadly zombies, people wont just fire around in a town, city or military complex. Because theyll get overrun.

So if they see another person sneaking around, theyll probably rather talk to them and say "hey, if we two fight, we both will die to those walkers, lets work together" (or lets gtfo and everyone will go his/her own way)

 

word.

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

No, there's not a KoS problem, per se.

 

The issue with that particular mentality (and Dean needs suggestions on how to balance it), is that currently there is nothing stopping people from killing on sight. The whole idea of item degradation from bullet damage is to make people think before shooting and instead taking alternate routes to attain a person's gear. Either get a clean shot on their head, take them hostage, bind them or team up was supposed to be the outcome of the encounter, as Dean had intended. While it has certainly helped, there's still no real repercussions to killing on sight. People have wanted stupid ideas like your character becoming more insane and shake. That takes the player out of the game and makes things artificial. What Dean wants is something that makes people really think on whether or not they should kill a person or not. He wants the risk vs reward of being friendly or a bandit to be more evenly balanced. KoS is, and always should be, a part of the game. There should just be more thought behind the taking of life. What better way than to give highly geared people a productive outlet to channel their boredom and gear? Banditry is still an option, but it's not the only option this way.

I am all for base building and cars and stuff, although I don't think it will help with KoS. The gear degradation stuff will surely help. But right now that is not evenly fully implemented. Guns take no damage and clothes still function just the same. If my shirt became ruined and then I couldn't use it anymore that would make more sense and help. Also when weather is implemented and you have to stay warm having pristine clothing might mean something.

 

Anyway, I like 'out of the box' ideas, but don't like when they are pitched as a way to stop the KoS 'problem' is all. Not trying to be a jerk, just my feed back.

 

I would like to be able to build wooden walls with a hammer, wood, nails and some dirt mounds with shovel ect so we could fortify stuff. Also would be great if you could use a crow bar to take other peoples wooden walls apart and reuse them. Ever play the Chero Life mod? Well it had a great base builder option in it, something like that would be amazing.

[Karmaterror 982]

I think the Kos problem will go away by its self as features get introduced. As it is now theres nothing to do after, you have got all geared up except go and hunt a player....or look for loot you dont need. 

 

When base building comes in people wont just be running to the high traffic areas looking for a kill. They will be roaming round looking for cars or base building supplies. Then they will be off building bases in secluded areas, or moving around the map looking for car parts. 

 

Sure they will still Kos, but a town where players spawn wont be the only entertainment after gearing up. Making bases degrade over time would maybe be a nice way to keep the player working. Say you log in and a rip has formed in one of your tents. All the cloths inside are now damp, and its starting to effect other loot inside it. Now you have to go out and find a new tent or some duct tape to repair it.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Aircraft are okay, but in the interest of development effort vs. pay-off, I think they should just spawn crashed like they did in the mod. The added benefit of having them "fly over" first, while cool and all, would require a ton more development just for some atmosphere, noises and pretty explosions. Again, would be neat, but would make this 100x more complicated to implement than just random crashes.

 

For bases, I think the answer to making them feel dynamic is to make them makeshift - either dugout trenche and bunkers or very rickety construction jobs with boards, barbed wire, etc. This way, you can believe that they are blown away by weather or destroyed when they "despawn." Otherwise I think it's an okay idea. If players can dig trenches and bunkers, then having them randomly appear won't be so shocking.

 

Island Raid? Okay. Seems like you're getting ahead of yourself. I mean it's a nice idea but there are so many steps between here and there it's almost insane to even imagine a mechanic so complex. Let's get zombies spawning, then roaming, then maybe some random groups out in the wilderness, then start thinking about "zombie events" but that's 6-8 months down the line.

 

 

I posted a bunch of ideas about how to make the game/loot more dynamic here. Some similar notions.

[hitem 3]

i didnt know it was an issue that needed to be resolved.

[Bakercompany86 347]

i didnt know it was an issue that needed to be resolved.

 

For some it is.  But I don't exactly go jolly-jogging up to a guy with an M4 in a gas mask and try to make friends.

 

If I see someone who is armed, I assume they would rather shoot me than risk their own life.

 

It's up to me after that to determine if I can get the drop on him so I control the situation and can find out, or better to just sneak off and not be seen.

 

 

If you're getting blasted on by someone you didn't see, you're not being sneaky enough or they're just way sneakier than you are.  

 

 

Also, stay away from Cherno/Elektro.  They are graveyards, period.

[Plan_B 82]

I think that KOS on Public Server is a good thing. If you run like a deer in the middle of the road, you deserve a bullet. Just be carefull.

 

When Private Server will be implemented, you will think twice about being a dick all the time, since you will be playing with the same people for a longer time.

 

Common goal? It's already in the game, if you want it. "Help me get (insert item here)!" "Sniper in Balota killing bambies, let's feed him desinfectant and rotten fruit!"

 

If base building is implemented, what will hold us to gather 10-15 guys, team up and raid a camp together to loot it? Nothing. You want to have a camp? You need guards, runners for supply, ect...

 

This game can be as awesome as WE want. No need to implement scenario and goal.

 

I've played on the mod on a server where player made their own faction and where fighting for city/territory. I think Dayz can go that way, as soon as we have a more stable community for servers.

[Pendulum Effect 15]

The game, as it is right now, does not simulate a true experience for losing your humanity. I don't want the game to decide whether I'm a bad person, or if I'm going insane or if I feel bad for killing someone. In the past, Dean has used a meager score to judge if you were a bad person or not. The use of skins were utilized to give a player the sense of dwindling personality, and also give other players a visual representation of what a persons intent was. Sure, what I'm suggesting is not a perfect fix, but the game is a psychopath simulator. It's either kill or be killed with no realistic repercussions to yourself. Sure, you can mount an attack on the "Sniper in Cherno" who's griefing the new spawns, but there's no common ground for which to meet someone outside the forums. That's immersion breaking for me. The common ground mechanic that I'm proposing is simply providing new ways to cooperate that require multiple people to tackle. You can choose to ignore them if you wish and just resort to banditry, but you will lose out on some great mechanics that are fresh and fun.

 

Again, the kill on sight mentality is not meant to be removed from the game. No, it's not broken. It's imbalanced. This is not an opinion that I'm expressing, but rather one that Dean Hall himself has addressed as being an issue that he would like to see resolved. So read the posts before saying that I'm trying to bring CareBears into DayZ. In real life, you'd feel bad if you killed someone out of cold blood having had no provocation. After awhile you might not feel so bad, killing people for fun or for no reason. How do you simulate going insane without taking control from the player? Answer: Giving them a lofty goal, unattainable without the aid of others, and killing a person that could help you get there. There's nothing wrong with the little things in place now, but higher risk = higher reward.

 

The ideas in this post are future goals for the game after the implementation of everything Dean wants as a baseline. We can ALWAYS craft our own experiences, but randomly spawned aircraft or bases are exactly like helicopter crash sites. The infested military island is just like the proposed zombie horde, that could be wandering through the NWAF. It just happens to be on an island, where there's no where for the zombies to go. These mechanics have always been or have always been wanted in the game by Dean! They're just given some focus, some variety and some relative life to an otherwise cookie cutter, uninteresting world. Sure, there are signs of zombie outbreaks and desolation, but the military presence there seems as if it never made an effort to do anything to halt the advance of the infected or save the citizens. That's all.

[sigvatr 154]

i dun give a shit if theres a bunch of rad new distractions for end game dudes like me im stil guna camp water pumps and ice kunts lool

[Pendulum Effect 15]

i dun give a shit if theres a bunch of rad new distractions for end game dudes like me im stil guna camp water pumps and ice kunts lool

 

You seem intelligent. 

 

You can do that if you want. It is part of the game. Have fun.

[sigvatr 154]

im not tryin to trik cunts by typin with capital leters and punctuation and shit like yuo do