Fix (not remove) Third Person Perspective

[floj 393]

We are discussing alterations for 3PP. The present state of 1PP ain't that relevant for that. Most of it is philosophical anyway.

I think a lot of the reluctance of players to move to 1PP from 3PP is because they think the movement and framerate is too clunky in 1PP (I personally have no issues but then I'm not exactly on minimum specs :D )

 

btw...on that note, people do turn off v-sync right? Cuz that ruins movement and mouse movement if your PC IS struggling... first thing I do in almost every game is turn that crappy function off

[Skinup69 24]

First person isn't hardcore...people need to stop saying that first off.

It's first person mode which is dated bak to wolfenstein in the 90s and is very common in PC gaming so there's nothing hardcore about it.

As for a fix in 3rd person... I hope and wish!

Just so people that play 3rd person can stop getting hated on.

[Tizzle 90]

With third person perspective comes the ability to see around things. While i prefer it to first person at the moment, i can see why it is a "broken" gameplay element

[libertine 351]

nm

Edited January 10, 2014 by Thane

[tommes 331]

3PP is a powerful tool. Using it makes a lot of things easier plus giving quasi superpowers while beeing quite unrealistic. Using 3PP is definitely less "hardcore" (difficult, uncomfortable) than staying in 1PP only. But name it as you wish. The name doesn't matter. Especially not in this thread because it's about making 3PP plausible enough to be accepted by 1PP only users while maintaining enough of it's appeal to the common player.

[Steeve 3]

cheating and seeing around things aside, I simply don't like 1pp because it feels like I don't have any peripheral vision.

 

it feels worse than when i'm wearing my motorbike helmet in real life, even with that I got some peripheral vision.

 

I cant image not being able to spot a moving object from the corner of your eye, especially when the objects sneak up to you most of the time and try to growl you.

[floj 393]

It only really improves peripheral vision for the 1-2 metres adjacent to your character though...the actual fov is the same. BUT if you really want proper peripheral vision, you'll need a 3 monitor setup and all the hassle that entails (GPUs, deskspace, losing any significant others) ^^

[tommes 331]

Every FPS sort of game has the problem of lower FOV than real life. Usually players compensate by having quick peeks with rapid mouse movement but those require high enough framerates.

 

Eventually this will be solved by advances in technology, i.e. client optimization, faster computers, more people having setups with more than one monitor or maybe double wide displays or even devices like the Occulus Rift.

[The_Man 393]

Proposing video games need to be more like real life is ridiculous. 

 

Why can't I smell bandits who haven't showered for days? I demand they implement smell-o-vision immediately or I'm done playing. :P

[tommes 331]

Proposing video games need to be more like real life is ridiculous. 

It's not. One day we might be able to plug into the matrix.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

At that point they wouldn't be video games. We wouldn't be looking at a video anymore. I agree with The Man, it's ridiculous to think we'll ever be able to simulate our vision perfectly on a video screen. Even with things like the oculus rift or a full on VR room with projected images covering every wall, the resolution is good, but it's not realistic. Being able to look at individual grains of sand and also focus on a distant object is not something that is possible on a video screen or even in a virtual environment.

 

It's even more ridiculous to think that a bunch of people are unwilling to lose third person view until we reach the level of The Matrix, where we hook our brains to the computer and live these games in our minds. If we ever reach that level of gaming, I doubt I'll be playing a game as horribly violent as DayZ.

[libertine 351]

At that point they wouldn't be video games. We wouldn't be looking at a video anymore. I agree with The Man, it's ridiculous to think we'll ever be able to simulate our vision perfectly on a video screen. Even with things like the oculus rift or a full on VR room with projected images covering every wall, the resolution is good, but it's not realistic. Being able to look at individual grains of sand and also focus on a distant object is not something that is possible on a video screen or even in a virtual environment.

 

It's even more ridiculous to think that a bunch of people are unwilling to lose third person view until we reach the level of The Matrix, where we hook our brains to the computer and live these games in our minds. If we ever reach that level of gaming, I doubt I'll be playing a game as horribly violent as DayZ.

Its not ridiculous at all to think we'll be able simulate our vision perfectly. Or close enough.  I've used 3D Vision for over 2000 hours now and i can see that a viewport to a holodeck is certainly possible. Its how it is now, only limited by current graphics technology and resolution. People who think 3D looks like the 3D in movies just haven't tried full 3D that matches your interpupilary distance. 3D in movies is a huge compromise meant to look decent to those in front vs. those in back vs. adults with high interpupilary distances (distance between the eyes, AKA IPD) vs. children with much lower IPD and whos eyes you don't want to cause to diverge outward. Its a weird thing, but in 3D things in the background get a lack of attention from the brain in a similar way to real life. The fact that everything is in focus isn't a big deal to me, in fact, i never noticed it until someone pointed it out. Then again, i do game a lot.

[tommes 331]

... it's ridiculous to think we'll ever be able to simulate our vision perfectly on a video screen. 

There's no need for perfection. I enjoy every step of the evolution in video gaming. My first one was Pong. Now look where we are now? And the journey isn't over yet. To the contrary. The speed seems to be increasing. Just look at the development of video screens. Not so long ago a 17" 4:3 screen was considered something awesome. Now everybody has a 24" full HD widescreen or the like. Display resolution is advancing as well with the rise of 4k TV sets we can observe presently. I imagine in a couple of years really wide curved ultra high resolution displays will be wide spread. Computing power will increase to being able to make use of them. Body tracking like with a TrackIR or Kinect will be common...and then there's the Occulus Rift coming up. So there's no reason to resign but every reason to be excited.

[serenityrick 218]

This may have been mentioned here already, not sure.. But I read a good idea over on reddit about a "fix" for 3rd person..

 

Only make 3rd person available if your weapon is holstered. It doesn't necessarily fix anything.. but it would be nice that if you are looking over or around walls, that you be at SOME sort of disadvantage.. that being that you can't strafe fire from the hip around a corner at someone you see or pop up, take some pot shots at someone then duck down and see exactly where they went without first putting your weapon away.

 

 

[gamer222 86]

I understand everyone's opinion who wants to change 3pp so that you can't peek behind the walls and as u constantly saying that it's easy mode for looting etc...but squeezing camera will just kill the feeling of 'somebody is watching me ' and it will not be interesting at all anymore these amazing things would be disappear in gameplay http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uIYmjwpvRNc people would run more than 200km not seeing anyone, I already seeing peoples threads how they playing a day or a week and they didn't kill or see anyone in this game, if I wanted that feeling than I would play 1pp and people would not see me even if I'm standing cross the street or next to them...changing camera view would definitely kill all my gameplay fun and I would consider it for refund right away...

[gibonez 3633]

This may have been mentioned here already, not sure.. But I read a good idea over on reddit about a "fix" for 3rd person..

 

Only make 3rd person available if your weapon is holstered. It doesn't necessarily fix anything.. but it would be nice that if you are looking over or around walls, that you be at SOME sort of disadvantage.. that being that you can't strafe fire from the hip around a corner at someone you see or pop up, take some pot shots at someone then duck down and see exactly where they went without first putting your weapon away.

 

It doesnt really fix anything at all.

 

people would just wait around a corner without a weapon take out their weapon and then attack at the right moment.

[tommes 331]

I understand everyone's opinion who wants to change 3pp so that you can't peek behind the walls and as u constantly saying that it's easy mode for looting etc...but squeezing camera will just kill the feeling of 'somebody is watching me ' and it will not be interesting at all anymore these amazing things would be disappear in gameplay http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uIYmjwpvRNc people would run more than 200km not seeing anyone, I already seeing peoples threads how they playing a day or a week and they didn't kill or see anyone in this game, if I wanted that feeling than I would play 1pp and people would not see me even if I'm standing cross the street or next to them...changing camera view would definitely kill all my gameplay fun and I would consider it for refund right away...

You don't make any sense.

[floj 393]

I understand everyone's opinion who wants to change 3pp so that you can't peek behind the walls and as u constantly saying that it's easy mode for looting etc...but squeezing camera will just kill the feeling of 'somebody is watching me ' and it will not be interesting at all anymore these amazing things would be disappear in gameplay http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uIYmjwpvRNc people would run more than 200km not seeing anyone, I already seeing peoples threads how they playing a day or a week and they didn't kill or see anyone in this game, if I wanted that feeling than I would play 1pp and people would not see me even if I'm standing cross the street or next to them...changing camera view would definitely kill all my gameplay fun and I would consider it for refund right away...

Try playing 1pp, you'll be surprised how often you do still see people (pretty much the same in Elektro)...only difference is, they have a fair chance of seeing you at the same time

[Sidewinder24 103]

Wait, do people really have a problem with fixing the cheating ability of 3PP? If they ever address this exploit just watch as the 3PP community is decimated. There still hasn't been a single plausible reason why 3PP is essential given it's exploitative nature. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

More fov? nope, won't make a difference.

 

Want to see your character? nope, can be done via 1PP or inventory.

 

Makes you sick? nope, can turn headbob down and if that doesn't help then maybe videogames aren't for you.

 

I do not have confidence in Dean to rectify this exploit but if he can get rid of it and still allow 3PP then I'm all for it.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Sidewinder24

[The_Man 393]

 

Wait, do people really have a problem with fixing the cheating ability of 3PP? If they ever address this exploit just watch as the 3PP community is decimated. There still hasn't been a single plausible reason why 3PP is essential given it's exploitative nature. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

More fov? nope, won't make a difference.

 

Want to see your character? nope, can be done via 1PP or inventory.

 

Makes you sick? nope, can turn headbob down and if that doesn't help then maybe videogames aren't for you.

 

I do not have confidence in Dean to rectify this exploit but if he can get rid of it and still allow 3PP then I'm all for it.

 

You sound like a child with his fingers in his ears that is ignoring any opinion and feelings of someone else. 

 

A massive part of the community enjoys third person. Maybe not in this thread but it is apparent through what servers are filled up. It is enough that people simply want third person in the game because it is a more enjoyable experience for them. We do not need statistics or data to support that. It is simply preference. Yes, some of us 3PP advocates recognize how some are taking advantage of third person in the game. We would like to fix that while allowing the community to have the choice of third person. I would also like to see the exploits gone but would like to keep third person. 

 

It is in the best interest of the developers to compromise and not appeal to the extremists (remove 3pp or keep 3pp how it currently is). And that is what will happen. First person will not be the only option nor will Third person remain the same. I stake my bean reputation on that. 

Edited January 11, 2014 by The_Man

[Sidewinder24 103]

You sound like a child with his fingers in his ears that is ignoring any opinion and feelings of someone else. 

 

A massive part of the community enjoys third person. Maybe not in this thread but it is apparent through what servers are filled up. It is enough that people simply want third person in the game because it is a more enjoyable experience for them. We do not need statistics or data to support that. It is simply preference. Yes, some of us 3PP advocates recognize how some are taking advantage of third person in the game. We would like to fix that while allowing the community to have the choice of third person. I would also like to see the exploits gone but would like to keep third person. 

 

It is in the best interest of the developers to compromise and not appeal to the extremists (remove 3pp or keep 3pp how it currently is). And that is what will happen. First person will not be the only option nor will Third person remain the same. I stake my bean reputation on that. 

 

The problem there is the majority of people that are pro 3PP DON'T want it to be fixed as they don't see it as a problem.

 

Oh and you're so right, I'm just like a child with my fingers in my ears not wanting to listen to anyone else. Must be why I wrote "Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong."

 

Reading comprehension, fucking look it up.

[Heiduk 265]

Give zombies 3PP too.

[tommes 331]

Stop that! This thread is about possible ways to fix the issues with 3PP.

[The_Man 393]

Stop that! This thread is about possible ways to fix the issues with 3PP.

 

It's okay, you hijacked it before too. 

[gingatsu 67]

Oook... Im really amazed by the people to " discuss " something down the hole...

 

The suggestion which was made was actually good and it really is a solution for people who wants to play straight&fair... but whatever... there will surely be someone who will say I'm talking bullshit now...

 

Therefore I just want to write down my opinion about the game, the feeling, the environment and my experiences with friends and other players here...

 

I for myself like Day-Z because it is a simulation game about a post apocalyptic world. Where people have to survive different difficulties. There are factors like, infestation, zombies which has been infected and died and got somehow up again, hunger, thirst, weather, hostile environment (yea the nature can really be the enemy itself if you don't know HOW to survive) and yes we have our beloved murderers too ( I call them murderers not bandits because in a world where the humanity goes to the brink of extinction it really is anormal that there are people who would gang up about 2- 6 persons or more to just to kill people who they see, just to get their backpacks or get their beans, banditry is something where law and order exists, in such a world like day-z this is just mindless murder)

 

Well yea I have encountered people who claimed that this is a PvP game and well many times I had to argue with them although without any success but whatever, that is another topic and not related about the 3pp discussion now.

 

Back to the topic, like I said I like the " realism " in the game... if I wanted to play unrealistic games and play the hero all time I would play COD and not such a game where you can drop dead from 1 shot or even worse by starving or dehydrating, or even a broken leg, fractured bones or even allergy/food poisoning etc. A basic human has 2 eyes and its " field of vision " is actually quite narrow. More narrow than most people think it is. We do not have a full 180 degree seamless sight we have a much more narrow clear sight range and the rest of the vision is what we call it a " peripheral vision "  which means it is still in your sight but not clear and focused. You can catch up movements and things but you cant see them clearly until you " focus " with your eyes to the object.

Sooo the following 2 links I'm posting here is about the vision field a Human has... and there is by far no explanation about " another " field of view which lets me see behind a wall, while I even didn't have a direct or partially Line of Sight.

http://s16.postimg.org/fe1yugak5/Fo_V1.jpg

http://s22.postimg.org/tr32thh01/Fo_V2.jpg

 

Therefore I don't actually like the 3pp camera which is implemented,i but hey it is there and people do like to play with it, and ok I respect it. But what I actually see is, that " most " of the players who use this 3pp camera is not because they all suffer from " motion sickness ", right in contrary because it proves you a tactical advantage on your " prey " and well for my " opinion " that kills the mood and the stress factor of the game.

 

Like said before this game is about survival and horror. So imagine yourself that you " really " are in such a world. And you need to get into the town to get supplies which enables you to " survive " for another day or week. So you actually have to be cautious. You have to sneak in and out as smooth as possible, and if possible with the least noise, coz the horde is partially " sensible " to the noises you make and some of them are even aggrivated by sight only. The risk that you might encounter such an infected just when you turn the corner or just when you bob out your head a lil bit in order to get some sight is actually quite a thrill, coz you don't know what might happen the next corner or building. And don't forget, even a scratch from those infected might get you infected too... so the risk is huge as hell, and you bet your life for some cans of beans or spaghetti or whatever... would there be any thrill if I could see behind the wall or hedge without even to bob the head out? or would that be even realistic? no it wouldn't... so this is actually my point for the game.

 

Why are we playing this game for? just to find some mosin and some sniper and kill people indistinctive? Or trying to survive on a world where the humanity is on the brink of extinction?... this will make you see what you finally expect from this game. If you're looking for survival then your motto should be " realism " in first case. If not than this game is actually the wrong game and you choosed wrong from the beginnng. Yes it might be a game, but hey it has something called " feature " like RPG, MMORPG, or FPS and so on and this one is under the category "Post Apocalyptic Horror Survival Game" and the features in such game bases about realism and not about nonsense.

 

So 3pp and realism? well the answer is obvious. In my opinion it should not be implemented to make yourself see if you are concealed enough in a snipe position or not, because you actually have to know how much you expose yourself if you stick out under a tree or bush or whatever or learn it the hard way and for this you have to use your wits and brain for it...

 

I have real sniper experience and according to the situation we even had to boil the sheets with tea and used charcoal and so on to just "camouflage" ourselves in some environment which looked necessary.

 

So there actually should be options to make camouflage from different things, but we really should " learn " to do things rather than "given" this is actually what survival is about... observe, learn and use the skills for it.

 

I also have another proposal for this game mechanic in order to get it more realistic, but I don't know how if the developers would imply this feat into the game in this stage, because it has some proposal about character generation and their " professions "...

 

Line of sight is something very important in game, it can differ between life and death and death in this game means you loose everything you build up so far and to do everything from scratch. If it says that the community get separated from 1pp only and 3pp only servers, than the solution should be like a compromise on both sides. Like the LOS on the first post and how to implement it on the 3pp on this forum. You still get your angle camera, you still can see more from the environment than a 1pp player but you cant see him until you bob your damn head out in order to see me, so that gives me at least the possibility to run away or to fight with you on equal terms (which is actually still not, but ok we do wanna compromise from our side too)

 

as to the topic of motion sickness... there have been said enough things how to compensate it. And what I dont understand is, you dont get motionsick when your charackter runs with angle camera but you get motionsick from first person sight? How do you manage to live in the real world? I mean you just have your 2 eyes and theyre not poppin out and hover somewhere upper behind you and give you some 360 degree sight do ya? (when I just think of it, dude that really would be creepy)