Fix (not remove) Third Person Perspective

[Hethwill_Khan 233]

There are some mechanics in 1stPP that need to be implemented for it to be feasible as a credible simulator of IRL.

 

For example, the most pressing one:

 

If I peek around a corner IRL I stand side to the wall and turn my head, in game i face the wall and then lean. If i peek from a balcony I lean slightly forward.We have lean sideways. We need lean back and forward.

 

Independent head movement is okay on X and Y but needs Z implemented.

 

I use trackIR for both head movement ( and leaning to the sides ) and also for the zoom in as alternative.

 

I'd kill a dozen Z bitc...s to have all three axis moves.

 

3rdPP fills the empty space of True 1stPP simulation as it "emulates" some of the naturally easy moves IRL ( peeking around, over, over the shoulder and to the side or even back to a wall and peeking around a corner.

[minime1000 78]

People who say they like 3pp because they like to look at the scenery/clothes when looking at their character doing stuff or whatever would not be against the 4th wall mod because that will not stop you from doing any of that because it only affects combat situations/general survival where the crutch comes into play. Unless they are lying of course.

[WrecklessMEDIC 129]

People who say they like 3pp because they like to look at the scenery/clothes when looking at their character doing stuff or whatever would not be against the 4th wall mod because that will not stop you from doing any of that because it only affects combat situations/general survival where the crutch comes into play. Unless they are lying of course.

The reason people are against the 4th wall mod is because it looks ridiculous. Zombies seemingly popping in and out of nowhere is a terrible idea IMHO.

[dallas 5195]

Theres actually quite an easy solution that nobody seems to want.

 

3pv servers only work in 3pv no fpv.

 

1pv only have fpv.

Why you wanna dictate what happens on third person server, when you're playing on first person servers anyways? Edited January 20, 2014 by Dallas

[floj 393]

Why you wanna dictate what happens on third person server, when you're playing on first person servers anyways?

I prefer 3PP except for the exploit, as I can judge my player position and concealment slightly easier just like most other 3PP players and Rocket himself. Also with some motion sickness suffering friends I have to play 3PP or not play with them. Why do you want to play a survival pvp game with a see around walls exploit?

 

The reason people are against the 4th wall mod is because it looks ridiculous. Zombies seemingly popping in and out of nowhere is a terrible idea IMHO.

Cool, so you want the more restrictive camera angles then, that's the alternative til someone thinks up something better. Also have you even considered the possible fixes for sudden pop-in for the 4th wall mod that were mentioned a few pages ago? Or maybe tried to think of some other way of fixing that issue?

[dsi24 227]

People who say they like 3pp because they like to look at the scenery/clothes when looking at their character doing stuff or whatever would not be against the 4th wall mod because that will not stop you from doing any of that because it only affects combat situations/general survival where the crutch comes into play. Unless they are lying of course.

 

I'm all for the 4th wall mod, but the devs aren't.

But if 3pp is left in the game then at least everyone can abuse it, I know I do. Be it zombies or against other players.

But third person isn't the only ingredient you need to abuse third person. You need a wall, building, bush, tree, or rock. These are things that don't move, so if you want to exploit third person you have to sit around camping somewhere - be it fresh spawn zones, a rooftop in a city, or other high traffic areas. The need to exploit third person to do well encourages the static KoS gameplay that people hate so much, as well as making it much harder (read: impossible) to fight against.

 

Dslyecxi's recent DayZ video is a great example of that, if he was in a third person server he would never have had the chance to spot the sniper that was pestering him and 3 other players. All the sniper had to do was sit behind a rock or bush in third person, look for a target, pop out when the target isn't paying attention, and take his shot(s). But because third person was disabled, the sniper had to make himself visible to be able to acquire targets, which gave a couple of aware players the chance to spot him, maneuver on him, and kill him.

[minime1000 78]

The gameworld is full of bushes, low stone walls, rocks, trees so there is zero problem finding cover to abuse anywhere. Not to mention the differences in terrain heights.

KOSing is pretty easy even against a group as they have no idea where I am exactly and I can pop out at any time when I see I am safe to shoot. All because I happened to see them first.

It is even better on large fields where I can see exactly where they are trying to take cover and hide after the first shot. I somewhat ignore KOS in towns but in wilderness because of the huge advantage I get by seeing them first I just engage. No matter how many of them there are.

In 1pp servers I try to ignore confrontation as it is much more dangerous or nigh impossible to do this. Especially out in the open.

 

I prefer 1pp but as long as 3pp is in and they are more populated, I might as well be a corner peeking asshole in there.

 

Dslyecxi video shows everything that is wrong with 3rd person view and I agree but if you can't beat em, join em.

Edited January 20, 2014 by myshl0ng

[The_Man 393]

So I've been testing what people have been saying is exploiting using third person. I normally only combat in first person (it is just better!). 

 

The past 3 combat scenarios I have survived were only because I had third person. All I had to do was find a small solid cover to hide behind. I simply waited until they tried to flank me and that is when I tilted left or right and took them out. Too easy. 

 

I still enjoy third person while travelling around in the game but this is absurd. They really need to fix this. Emphasis on fix. I still would like to see third person...just nerfed! 

[WrecklessMEDIC 129]

I prefer 3PP except for the exploit, as I can judge my player position and concealment slightly easier just like most other 3PP players and Rocket himself. Also with some motion sickness suffering friends I have to play 3PP or not play with them. Why do you want to play a survival pvp game with a see around walls exploit?

Cool, so you want the more restrictive camera angles then, that's the alternative til someone thinks up something better. Also have you even considered the possible fixes for sudden pop-in for the 4th wall mod that were mentioned a few pages ago? Or maybe tried to think of some other way of fixing that issue?

I don't like the more restrictive camera angles either, honestly. And I don't need to think of ways to "fix" 3PP since I like it just the way it is.

If anyone can can come up with a better solution I'm all ears (or eyes I guess). :P

Until then there's no point in breaking 3PP to suit a limited playstyle.

[big_t 66]

Theres actually quite an easy solution that nobody seems to want.

 

3pv servers only work in 3pv no fpv.

 

1pv only have fp

 

 

I love this idea. Zooming in from 3rd person to 1rst person is quite silly anyway.   cross hairs would be better with no switching.

[dallas 5195]

I prefer 3PP except for the exploit, as I can judge my player position and concealment slightly easier just like most other 3PP players and Rocket himself. Also with some motion sickness suffering friends I have to play 3PP or not play with them. Why do you want to play a survival pvp game with a see around walls exploit?

I still don't get the exploit part, it's readily available for everyone.

Anyway I don't want to get drawn into a discussion with your trying to redefine a feature as a cheat. I only commented on a first person player, who's got a history of wanting to remove third person view completely form the game, who has no intention to ever playing on a third person server, but somehow think he's entitled to dictate what goes on on third person servers.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Dallas

[The_Man 393]

I still don't get the exploit part, it's readily available for everyone.

Anyway I don't want to get drawn into a discussion with your trying to redefine a feature as a cheat. I only commented on a first person player, who's got a history of wanting to remove third person view completely form the game, who has no intention to ever playing on a third person server, but somehow think he's entitled to dictate what goes on on third person servers.

 

I think the idea that it is an exploit derives from that one person may know how to use it to their advantage. I find this slightly silly considering there are a number of things a player can do in this game, mechanically, to have an advantage over a player. Until all of them are addressed by the developer then I do not see 3PP being a top priority to be fixed by the developers. This comes along with creating a realistic game. Numerous issues exist and 3PP is currently the scapegoat. Does it have problems? Yes. However, that is only because it is the most noticeable issue when it comes to realism. 

[dsi24 227]

I still don't get the exploit part, it's readily available for everyone.

Anyway I don't want to get drawn into a discussion with your trying to redefine a feature as a cheat. I only commented on a first person player, who's got a history of wanting to remove third person view completely form the game, who has no intention to ever playing on a third person server, but somehow think he's entitled to dictate what goes on on third person servers.

Exploits that are readily available to everyone are still exploits...

 

It's really as simple as this image, though some people prefer to ignore it.

 

Note that it's impossible for the viewer to exploit third person to see the other player.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Dsi1

[Skinup69 24]

Wrong, it's not a exploit at all. Only in the eyes of goofs it is.

Exploits that are readily available to everyone are still exploits...

It's really as simple as this image, though some people prefer to ignore it.

Note that it's impossible for the viewer to exploit third person to see the other player.

[big_t 66]

Wrong, it's not a exploit at all. Only in the eyes of goofs it is.

 

 

Dude,, just dude......

[The_Man 393]

Exploits that are readily available to everyone are still exploits...

 

It's really as simple as this image, though some people prefer to ignore it.

 

Note that it's impossible for the viewer to exploit third person to see the other player.

 

Impossible is the wrong word. Viewer could go into third person, move to the left corner and then he would see the player by moving around the mouse. 

 

Edit: Woops. Not in that house. I didn't see the little entrance way that would obscure view. In houses without that little doorway it would be possible. Sorry!

Edited January 21, 2014 by The_Man

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I still don't get the exploit part, it's readily available for everyone.

Anyway I don't want to get drawn into a discussion with your trying to redefine a feature as a cheat. I only commented on a first person player, who's got a history of wanting to remove third person view completely form the game, who has no intention to ever playing on a third person server, but somehow think he's entitled to dictate what goes on on third person servers.

 

Who says 1st person players wouldn't play on a third person servers if third person was magically fixed? At that point it wouldn't matter what view the player uses because there would be no advantage to using third person.

 

That is the reason us 1st person players care about third person. We might join different servers, but we both share this game, so finding a way for all of us to play together is desirable.

[The_Man 393]

We might join different servers, but we both share this game, so finding a way for all of us to play together is desirable.

 

This, this, this. 

 

I hope we can all be content with both perspectives being present in the game. I don't like seeing a split down the community. 

[dsi24 227]

Impossible is the wrong word. Viewer could go into third person, move to the left corner and then he would see the player by moving around the mouse. 

 

Edit: Woops. Not in that house. I didn't see the little entrance way that would obscure view. In houses without that little doorway it would be possible. Sorry!

 

Note that you had to move as well.

 

You don't have to sit in corners every second of your life in first person.

[gibonez 3633]

So I've been testing what people have been saying is exploiting using third person. I normally only combat in first person (it is just better!). 

 

The past 3 combat scenarios I have survived were only because I had third person. All I had to do was find a small solid cover to hide behind. I simply waited until they tried to flank me and that is when I tilted left or right and took them out. Too easy. 

 

I still enjoy third person while travelling around in the game but this is absurd. They really need to fix this. Emphasis on fix. I still would like to see third person...just nerfed! 

 

 

Woa did you just have a change of heart ?

[minime1000 78]

"Everybody has it" argument has been dealt with time and time again. It does not work that way, and your corner peeking will not do anything against someone who is in distance and corner peek'd you first. Whoever sees someone first, especially in distance, has pretty much won no matter what solely because of 3rd person. He could be the worst player in the world and still has a huge advantage.

[The_Man 393]

Woa did you just have a change of heart ?

 

In a way, yes. I don't like doing combat in third person. It just isn't good for my playing style. I am always in first person when I see someone near by. 

 

So, I looked at all the issues you guys explained here. Then I "exploited" third person. I mean, I kind of knew how to do it before but my instinct was to switch to first person as soon as I saw someone...so now I forced myself to play in third person and wow. Skilled players using this absolutely have a huge advantage over most people. If you are in the right place at the right time then you can use this even against a skilled player to kill them. 

 

My point still stands though: 3rd person would be nice to have in this game ONLY if they can fix it. Remove it for now? Expect chaos on the forums. I won't complain but it will be chaos for people who need 3PP to win a fight. 

[tommes 331]

Nice to see that at least some people can be convinced that two wrongs don't make a right.

[gibonez 3633]

 

My point still stands though: 3rd person would be nice to have in this game ONLY if they can fix it. Remove it for now? Expect chaos on the forums. I won't complain but it will be chaos for people who need 3PP to win a fight. 

 

I think there will be a week or two where the forums are full of new accounts complaining but once the storm has passed the most important thing is that the game is better for it.

 

I really hate how third person view completely changes the pvp in the game.

 

Almost all of the fights turn into stalemates with both sides hiding behind low cover or near a wall waiting for the other to make a move and thats when they pounce.

 

[WrecklessMEDIC 129]

"Everybody has it" argument has been dealt with time and time again. It does not work that way, and your corner peeking will not do anything against someone who is in distance and corner peek'd you first. Whoever sees someone first, especially in distance, has pretty much won no matter what solely because of 3rd person. He could be the worst player in the world and still has a huge advantage.

Whomever sees someone first in 1PP has pretty much won as well. It doesn't matter what view you're using.

I've been looting buildings in Electro using 3rd person and had people sneak up behind me many times. They easily could've been watching me with 1PP from another building and I just didn't see them.