Fix (not remove) Third Person Perspective

[tommes 331]

I never heard anything about 3PP exploits until I decided to check out the forums on a whim last week. I was quite surprised when I realized people were actually complaining about it.....lol. :D

A lot of players, just as you, are oblivious to the exploitative nature of 3PP and what it does to gameplay. If they get aware of it there's a good chance they join the 1PP camp. Many who did stated the 1PP combat experience to be much more enjoyable.

[minime1000 78]

And I do not understand why it is bad to "drive away" people who threaten to leave the game if 3pp is removed. This game is not for everyone and if it is meant to be a brutal survival game like they are trying to make it, then 1pp is a part of that. If it turns out that Rocket wants it to be FPS only and removes 3pp then I guess the game is not for you.

 

Funny how when someone mentioned safezones he is said that this game is "hardcore and not cod" but when people suggest to remove the biggest cod-ish feature then the ones who cannot play without this big crutch scream bloody murder. 3PP literally makes fighting in this game easier than in BF and CoD and goes against everything that is supposed to be a survival game.

 

4th wall fix seems good as it still keeps the 3pp view for people who like it. Those who are against 4th wall or any other fix because "it messes with the seamless gameplay" or whatever just use excuses because they really do not want this to be fixed.

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

How does it put imbalance into the game when EVERYONE can use it?

I'm hoping you're just trolling now. I've already explained how. Failure to understand and accept this exceptionally simply point means that you have all four corners of fuck all more to bring to the table that hasn't already been posted and thoroughly debased.

 

1PP people cannot gain any situational awareness without COMPLETELY exposing themselves. That is totally unrealistic.

[...]

You claim its more realistic, when it certainly is not, due to limitations of a game you have no feel, you cannot move your eyes separately to your head, you are very limited in sight and sound, it would be like walking around looking through a small box and wearing ear muffs that translate the sounds of the world into 2 speakers.

How is this more 'realistic' then being able to see around a corner without exposing yourself?

The answer is... it's not! Its just at a different end of the scale.

You cannot argue this, this is simple fact!

3PP view allows certain unrealistic features, or exploits as you may call them, to make up for the fact we are playing a game, and will (at least for now) forever be limited to the fact that it is a game.

To argue that 3PP view is an exploit is absurd, and to assume 1PP view is more realistic is retarded.

All of this is horseshit. All of it. It is possible to gain situational awareness using 1PP without completely exposing yourself. I've taken some screenshots to illustrate this because you and everyone else spouting the same bollocks seem to lack the ability required to convert words into pictures in your mind.

This is me peering around a corner, as seen in 1PP...

...and this is how it looks from 3PP. Look at me not being completely exposed!

Although, crucially, some of me is exposed which is the risk inherent in peering around a corner. This is the same as real life.

And now, let's look at how 3PP can be exploited to gain situational awareness with zero risk of exposure...

This is NOT how it works in real life.

To even suggest that 3PP is more realistic than 1PP in any way is utter absurdity. Furthermore, continuing to press your argument along these lines when I have thoroughly and unequivocally deconstructed your argument and demonstrated why you're wrong is nothing more than ignorant trolling.

So stop it. Everyone.

EDIT: Typo fixes. Also, excuse the really shit quality of the screenshots, I have to take photos of my monitor because, for some reason, Printscreen just shows black.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Monkfish

[Ken Bean 175]

I'm hoping you're just trolling now. I've already explained how. Failure to understand and accept this exceptionally simply point means that you have all four corners of fuck all more to bring to the table that hasn't already been posted and thoroughly debased.

All of this is horseshit. All of it. It is possible to gain situational awareness using 1PP without completely exposing yourself. I've taken some screenshots to illustrate this because you and everyone else spouting the same bollocks seem to lack the ability required to convert words into pictures in your mind.

This is me peering around a corner, as seen in 1PP...

...and this is how it looks from 3PP. Look at me not being completely exposed!

Although, crucially, some of me is exposed which is the risk inherent in peering around a corner. This is the same as real life.

And now, let's look at how 3PP can be exploited to gain situational awareness with zero risk of exposure...

This is NOT how it works in real life.

To even suggest that 3PP is more realistic than 1PP in any way is utter absurdity. Furthermore, continuing to press your argument along these lines when I have thoroughly and unequivocally deconstructed your argument and demonstrated why you're wrong is nothing more than ignorant trolling.

So stop it. Everyone.

EDIT: Typo fixes. Also, excuse the really shit quality of the screenshots, I have to take photos of my monitor because, for some reason, Printscreen just shows black.

Yeah, that's fine. I'm certain someone already explained how to join a 1st person server. You don't like 3rd person? Great, don't play there.

[Guest]

I like 3rd Person for a cinematic style look, I want to see how epic it looks when my character overlooks chernarus with the sun at his back....

 

I can understand why people don't like 3rd Person, but I don't think it needs to be removed.

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

Yeah, that's fine. I'm certain someone already explained how to join a 1st person server. You don't like 3rd person? Great, don't play there.

Just leave. You're bringing nothing of value to the conversation.

[Wolfguarde 108]

Just leave. You're bringing nothing of value to the conversation.

Nobody is bringing anything of value to this bullshit argument. You're flogging a dead horse. The sooner you ALL let it go, the sooner you will stop supplying the other side with more shit to bitch about.

[minime1000 78]

Nobody is bringing anything of value to this bullshit argument. You're flogging a dead horse. The sooner you ALL let it go, the sooner you will stop supplying the other side with more shit to bitch about.

I guess Rocket should let it go too.

 

On that note, why not add non-permadeath servers. Nothing is lost as people can still play on classical permadeath servers. Everybody wins.

[tommes 331]

Yeah, that's fine. I'm certain someone already explained how to join a 1st person server. You don't like 3rd person? Great, don't play there.

This is a "change 3PP thread". You don't like to change it? Great. Go somewhere else! :)

[floj 393]

Dammit, I try to get some sleep and the walkers approach the camp in the night...

 

Ken, please leave the thread, there are more 3PP players that don't want the exploit than players like yourself in the minority that need it as a crutch.

 

I play 1PP and 3PP, I would like this removed for when I play 3PP and appreciate other uses of the 3PP camera, like checking backgrounds when camo'd up and checking wound locations when shot at to ascertain the direction of incoming fire. Much like Rocket, the lead dev who has already stated he's looking at ways of fixing this. Also I strongly believe this is gonna make the in-game experience more frightening and authentic for the other 3PP players.

 

Also you've admitted yourself to being a 1 and 3PP player, so I fail to see how this is gonna drive you out of the game (more's the pity). You're just throwing your toys out the pram because the decision has already gone against you and you want to make some noise to make it seem like there's more objectors than there really are.

 

How many posts like this:

Good one, really make me as a PP3 user to think.. . thanks mate :thumbsup:

...have you seen from 1PP players turning to the 3PP side. All your pointless trolling has achieved is more and more players opening their eyes to how this exploit affects the game in a negative way. It's now 65:45 players who currently play 3PP that don't want this exploit in the game. 96:45 if we include the 1PP players that want to play 3PP. 158:45 if we look at all the playerbase. You're losing by more and more each day the poll continues, probably because you're raising attention to this thread with a link to it in the OP and because there's no argument to keep it.

 

So let's discuss how different methods can be implemented to fix this exploit, as per the thread title :rolleyes:

 

BTW: Monkfish, Steam has a screenshot button itself, default F12 I think

Edited January 19, 2014 by phlOgistOn

[Wolfguarde 108]

I guess Rocket should let it go too.

 

On that note, why not add non-permadeath servers. Nothing is lost as people can still play on classical permadeath servers. Everybody wins.

Reinforcing my point.

I'm not for either side in the argument. I don't see the point to arguing an issue that is ultimately unsolvable. Each side is demonising the other to the point where the argument sustains itself for the sake of seeing who's better at insulting the other party. You're not arguing for the sake of proving your point. You're arguing for the sake of argument. And that is not contributing in any way to the (endless) discussion at hand.

Stop speculating, stop arguing, and wait for a status report. Then unpen the dogs again. Let the devs have a chance to actually say something on the manner, so you and the others can tear it/each other to pieces over what's actually been confirmed. Hold off the ego stroking until it will actually contribute to something.

[svisketyggeren 662]

Seriously guys? You're still trying to argue with Ken Bean and his buddies? He's living behind a 7 ft massive brick wall. That's why he's so dependent on 3PP. You couldn't hit him logic there if it had the power of a nuclear bomb.

Couldnt agree more in regards to Ken Bean...just stop talking to him. Either u are feeding troll or u are having discussion with 12 yr old

[Ken Bean 175]

Couldnt agree more in regards to Ken Bean...just stop talking to him. Either u are feeding troll or u are having discussion with 12 yr old

 

Maybe the mods have mercy and clean this infinte loop of shittalk in this thread. Yes, especially those personell attacks could use a shave.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Ken Bean

[StandingCow 9]

As someone that suffers from motion sickness (I am very sensitive to it), as long as I increase the FOV I am generally ok, now I know it isn't the same for everybody... but is anyone still having symptoms if they increase their FOV slider? 

 

Another suggestion for those that suffer are "Sea-Bands" and ginger gum.  The first prevents it for some people, the gum will help with the nausea.

 

Now as for 1PV and 3PV, both are exploitable (being able to see through walls)... but 3PV will let you look over and around them without exposing yourself... would something like what world of tanks help in this situation (if your player cannot see them you cannot)? 

 

I have to agree with some of the others in this thread, you really are missing out if you aren't in a 1PV server, you have to be really aware of your surroundings.  But as long as we have our seperate 3rd and 1st person view servers everyone should be happy.

Edited January 19, 2014 by StandingCow

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

BTW: Monkfish, Steam has a screenshot button itself, default F12 I think

Ahh, wasn't aware of that. Thanks, I'll give it a try!

 

I don't see the point to arguing an issue that is ultimately unsolvable.

Except that it isn't unsolvable. There are suggestions in this thread for fixing the exploit. Suggestions like 4th Wall, changing the camera axis and/or changing the position of the camera. The entire purpose of this thread is to discuss the pitfalls and merits of each suggestion, possibly come up with a different ones and see if the community can thresh out a final solution to the problem. It's the naysayers regurgitating the same tired "there isn't an exploit/just play on another server/it can't be fixed" that are perpetuating the thread.

[finalstraw 193]

As someone that suffers from motion sickness (I am very sensitive to it), as long as I increase the FOV I am generally ok, now I know it isn't the same for everybody... but is anyone still having symptoms if they increase their FOV slider?

 

Many are exaggerating the sickness issue and are just using it as desperate justification for playing 3PP. Increasing the FOV is guaranteed to fix it. I recently played Metro: Last Light which had a stupidly low FOV by default (55 if I recall). It was giving me a headache until I tweaked the config files to 95.

 

I honestly think some people are just ignorant and haven't even touched the FOV settings. I see player screenshots and streamers who haven't even touched it all the time. It's bizarre.

[fitzee 248]

As someone that suffers from motion sickness (I am very sensitive to it), as long as I increase the FOV I am generally ok, now I know it isn't the same for everybody... but is anyone still having symptoms if they increase their FOV slider?

 

Have you tried turning the head bob slider all the way down? It generally takes care of the problem for me, though I may not be as sensitive to it as you are.

 

Increasing the FOV just isn't an option for me, as it skews the world even worse than the default zoom level. Makes everything look further away, and makes hills look much less steep than they actually are. For people who don't understand what I'm talking about try a google search about setting proper FOV in driving simulators. I know this isn't a race sim but the same principles apply.

 

Regards.

[dsi24 227]

Yeah, that's fine. I'm certain someone already explained how to join a 1st person server. You don't like 3rd person? Great, don't play there.

If you want to exploit third person, go play the mod. Don't try and keep ArmA's co-op baggage in DayZ:SA for the devs to have to constantly work around.

[WrecklessMEDIC 129]

And I do not understand why it is bad to "drive away" people who threaten to leave the game if 3pp is removed. This game is not for everyone and if it is meant to be a brutal survival game like they are trying to make it, then 1pp is a part of that. If it turns out that Rocket wants it to be FPS only and removes 3pp then I guess the game is not for you.

Funny how when someone mentioned safezones he is said that this game is "hardcore and not cod" but when people suggest to remove the biggest cod-ish feature then the ones who cannot play without this big crutch scream bloody murder. 3PP literally makes fighting in this game easier than in BF and CoD and goes against everything that is supposed to be a survival game.

4th wall fix seems good as it still keeps the 3pp view for people who like it. Those who are against 4th wall or any other fix because "it messes with the seamless gameplay" or whatever just use excuses because they really do not want this to be fixed.

Or they could just remove 1PP? Either choice is just as valid.

[dsi24 227]

Or they could just remove 1PP? Either choice is just as valid.

It'd be absolutely amazing if they removed first person, remember kids, that means no weapon sights.

[gibonez 3633]

It'd be absolutely amazing if they removed first person, remember kids, that means no weapon sights.

 

Theres actually quite an easy solution that nobody seems to want.

 

3pv servers only work in 3pv no fpv.

 

1pv only have fpv.

[dsi24 227]

Theres actually quite an easy solution that nobody seems to want.

 

3pv servers only work in 3pv no fpv.

 

1pv only have fpv.

Yeah, I wonder why... (oh yeah, they only use third person in *ahem* certain situations)

[tommes 331]

As much as I like to taste the tears of 3PP advocates that suggestion is not productive.

[minime1000 78]

But if 3pp is left in the game then at least everyone can abuse it, I know I do. Be it zombies or against other players.

Edited January 20, 2014 by myshl0ng

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

 

For the one millionth time 3PP gives spatial awareness that is severely lacking in DayZ and Arma in general. I do not walk into objects all the time in my day to day life, but in first person navigating a hallway can be a pain. 

The sound is not that great for echo location although that is a separate issue but it does come into play when discussing realism in 1PP. 

The other large argument is this game is not strictly a shooter. The vast majority of time spent playing DayZ is spent running in the woods and looting in desolation and both of those activities are often more enjoyable visually in 3PP. Enjoyment is part of gaming so it is a valid argument to bring up even if some want to label it casual Cod nonsense or whatever other arguments being thrown around. I will admit to the sin of playing games for enjoyment, sorry to ruin your hardcore brutal experience with joy. 

 

Watch the video in the OP it already neutralises the 

spatial awareness argument, Arma has MORE spacial awareness than 99% of FPS games as it allows you to turn your head independently. 

 

And no it isn't just a shooter, it's as I already said a game about tension and fear, all of which is enhanced with first person only, again watch the video in the OP and listen to what he says about risk versus reward. Lying the the grass dodging zombies is MUCH more immersive when lying down restricts your vision. The whole game becomes more tense. 

 

There is NO valid argument for third person. 

 

As for it not being a shooter, well you may have noticed that Dayz has guns, is based on a hardcore military shooter and has more realistic gunplay than any other game out there. Also that the main danger is other players, with guns. So it's a fundamental part of the game. Screwing it up with third person fundamentally breaks one of the key points of the game. A guy camping on the roof of the firestation with third person is invisible, a guy poking his head up over the top of the firestation roof is a lovely target, or at least easily avoided. One can end your game in an inherently unfair way (all that fun looting and surviving you have done) just by hiding until your back is turned. The other has to poke his head up to see if victims are coming. It's chalk and cheese.