Fix (not remove) Third Person Perspective

[Skinup69 24]

You spend more time on a forum then steam, so goodbye.

Sure it does. In my opinion. Sorry I forgot the Opinion tags, that have to be associated to every statement of opinion, because otherways everything is fact...

Our secret plan is to force 3PP players on our turf and then drive them crazy with face to face KoS'ing. Then we flame them for whining in the forums for further humiliation. It's not that we like playing games. We're just here to rob others of their childish fun.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Our secret plan is to force 3PP players on our turf and then drive them crazy with face to face KoS'ing. Then we flame them for whining in the forums for further humiliation. It's not that we like playing games. We're just here to rob others of their childish fun.

 

[tommes 331]

You spend more time on a forum then steam, so goodbye.

I have internet access at work, but a hot girlfriend at home.

[Skinup69 24]

Carry this on on Facebook if u want. Then we can both have a laugh

I have internet access at work, but a hot girlfriend at home.

[Max Planck 7174]

Guys... Guys??

You are doing it again.

All the off-topic crap, the insults, the talk about pubes... Let's stop it now.

 

It's turning the discussion into an angry argument between just a few people, it was meant as a place to discuss 1st/3rd views with an open mind, not as just another one of those threads.

You know which threads I'm talking about, the ones that gets locked.

 

So please.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Max Planck

[Agony (DayZ) 1]

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1kzy02/sa_gamescom_gameplay_with_rocket_gamestar_10min/cbuomj7?context=3

 

A quote from the link above

 

Rocket: 

 

" I can see (and employ myself) many legitimate uses of 3rd person. The servers are also far more popular than 1st person ones. What I'm doing is acknowledging the problem, acknowledging that server-demand will drive in favor of third-person allowed servers, and proposing a compromise that perhaps eliminates the worst of the offending, at the very least taking the edges off it.

 

why compromise and allow the exploit?

 

In short, because removal of a feature should not be taken lightly, and I'm just not convinced we should remove 3rd person at the game level."

 

So calm yourself down, 3p will not be removed but he wishes to fix/remove the exploits. Some of the exploits he is talking about:

 

• Looking over walls, through windows with no risk, etc.
• Using 3p while prone

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

The video in the first post sums it up perfectly. 

 

There are simply no arguments for third person that stand up to that analysis. 

 

You also can't allow the option. Dayz is tough, it's supposed to be tough, if you enforce 1st person some people will whine about it , but they will still play it, and they will come to love it after a transitional period. If you took a game everyone loved and suddenly added perma death, people would freak out, but because that feature has been in Dayz from the start with no option there is no discussion about it. The very harshness of it is what attracted everyone.

 

Dayz is about fear, stress and immersion. 1st person amplifies these things and simply makes the game better.

 

Other arguments:

 

You can't see your character  - now you can in the character screen. Sorted.

It makes me sick - turn off head bob, becomes exactly the same.

Increased FOV - the OP video shows that there is no FOV increase. 

[Publik 404]

Max has the most fun job in the world. Once we get shit (flying), we can re-enact the founding of the forums ingame. I'll be Benjamin Flingshit.

 

On topic: I can't stress how disappoint I am at this kind of talk from the Devs. Just taking a broken feature and hiding it isn't a solution. It's just avoiding the issue. He mentions Hide Body as well in his "Upcoming Features" post being disabled on a "hardcore" hive along with 3PP:OFF, and with that and such inaccurate weaponry to prevent long range combat, I get discouraged. Why have hardcore servers when the entire game is supposed to be hard? What happened to the feed-me-your-tears Rocket I liked the first few months the mod was out? Did something freeze and fall off when he was climbing Everest? Every day that goes by I get less and less enthusiastic about SA, and not because there's zip to do, but because I don't forsee SA shaping up to be what it could be. I'm not getting those kinds of signals from the devs. Maybe it's because they seem to prefer Reddit and Twitter instead of their own forums that I feel uninformed. Shouldn't these forums be the first place they have a discussion? Maybe that's why the forum community feels like a bunch of shitposters and trolls? I need to go to bed.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1kzy02/sa_gamescom_gameplay_with_rocket_gamestar_10min/cbuomj7?context=3

That's 4 months old though. I'd think that in 4 months he'd have had the time to look at a few mods and decide his course of action on this. The latest word is separate hives. Separate hives are no fix, they're sweeping the problem under the rug and pretending they don't exist.

 

You can't see your character  - now you can in the character screen. Sorted.

It makes me sick - turn off head bob, becomes exactly the same.

Increased FOV - the OP video shows that there is no FOV increase. 

Head bob is still there. It's much better, but it's still a little bit annoying even at the lowest settings.

In the video you can see the difference at 0:20-0:25 or so. When he goes into 1PP he can see about half as much; look at the bit of grass and you'll get the idea. If you take your hands and put them next to your eyes like blinds on a horse, and open them out to the sides, you can see what kind of FOV your real eyes have. Its about 135 degrees for me, and people can turn their eyes as well which brings it around 180 degrees. My 1PP FOV is somewhere around 90, and I believe it goes as low as 60 degrees. Third person about doubles that, which brings it closer to what you can actually do. People also have extra senses that aren't represented in-game, like more acute hearing and smell, and people can move their heads/bodies in ways that they can't with just 1PP. I can twist my torso along with my head to get a view of whatever is directly behind me.

 

They just need to tweak where the camera is: closer and lower, so you can't get it over walls and such. Removing the feature all together is a little extreme and doesn't set a good precedent. What else is going to be deemed "hardcore only"? Accurate guns?

 

For the record, whatever ends up being the hardest will probably be where Freeside sets up shop. If that means no service for most people, I guess that's just a bullet we'll have to bite.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Publik

[Agony (DayZ) 1]

 

snip

 

 seperate hives may look like the final fix, as in 3pv will never go away so you will always have seperate hives. For me separate hives work fine as people have different tastes.

 

Although it is a 4 month old thread, there are several mentions in this thread stating that Dean dislikes certain exploits and would want to remove them from the game but not 3p itself.

 

again I think what you said is one of the fixes they could do :

 

They just need to tweak where the camera is: closer and lower, so you can't get it over walls and such. Removing the feature all together is a little extreme and doesn't set a good precedent.

 

That along with a forced 1pv or very zoomed in view when prone.

[Skinup69 24]

Right so that's that then.

3rd person needs fixed...yet 80% of the DayZ players play it that way.

To fix 3rd person they will have to do things that will not look good at all.

Plus it's only an exploit if other people don't have the same view.

It's insane for people to call 3rd person 'exploiting' when everyone else deals with it.

It's just a different play style.

DayZ in 1st person is no different to any other 1st person PVP game, simple as that.

[tommes 331]

Guys... Guys??

You are doing it again.

All the off-topic crap, the insults, the talk about pubes... Let's stop it now.

 

It's turning the discussion into an angry argument between just a few people,

I'm trying to keep it on the light side.

it was meant as a place to discuss 1st/3rd views with an open mind, not as just another one of those threads.

You kow which threads I'm talking about, the ones that gets locked.

 

So please.

All sensible talk is done. If you force people to make sense this thread will be dead again anyway. All possible...and a lot of impossible...solutions have been brought up several times each. The rest is...as typical amongst children...a contest of who can show bigger stubborness.

[tommes 331]

To fix 3rd person they will have to do things that will not look good at all.

We don't know. The 4th wall isn't changing the grafics

Plus it's only an exploit if other people don't have the same view.

It's insane for people to call 3rd person 'exploiting' when everyone else deals with it.

It's just a different play style.

This has been explained A FUCKING LOT!

DayZ in 1st person is no different to any other 1st person PVP game, simple as that.

Yet hordes of people are physically (or otherwise) incapable of playing it that way...

[Agony (DayZ) 1]

SNIP

 

Lol, before you even see how they will fix it you are shouting this looks not good.

 

Anyways you keep going in this vicious circle not contributing to the subject of the thread which is possible fix/changes/etc that could be made to 3p to improve the experience. It is my own fault for bringing up the reasons why and what of 3p should be fixed, from which I will refrain now as I am interested much more how 3p can be improved. 

[Skinup69 24]

Yet hordes of people are physically (or otherwise) incapable of playing it that way...

No mayb that's why they play 3rd person because its different.

[Ken Bean 174]

The people who keep saying nothing needs to be fixed, need to stop posting in this thread. Go make a new thread about keeping third person unchanged, if you feel that passionate about it.

 

Just because this discussion is pointless to you, doesn't mean it's pointless to everyone. You guys are making it very difficult for anyone to discuss changes to the view.

 

You're free to add to the discussion from your viewpoint. But, repeatedly saying there's nothing wrong with 3rd person is adding nothing to the discussion. You can mention your feelings, just don't use it as ammunition to dismiss other points of view. And don't make it the only point in your post.

 

I could sit here and find ways to keep saying third person should be removed entirely, but I'm not doing that because this thread is specifically about fixing it, not removing it. It's pointless for me to push that idea, the same way it's pointless for you guys to push the idea that there's nothing wrong with third person.

 

 

Cool idea, I would gladly do it, if my viewpoint would be unaffected by your fixing attemps of something what is not broken. Besides of that, I really doubt that this "go way if your opinion differs from ours" will work aut well. In this case, why did you even start a diskussion, if questioning is not allowed?

 

And I know, you didn't say that you want to remove 3rd person in this particular topic headline. You did that in those other threads before though. Now this obviously was not loved, so you try to break the 3rd person in order to push your 1st person only agenda.

 

Now thing is, I'm not happy with this solutions posted either, because as said, you effectively try to break 3rd person.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Ken Bean

[WrecklessMEDIC 129]

It is not up to you to define what kind of game this is. It has PvP in it. PvP with 3PP is shit.

It's not up to you either, honestly. Just because you think PvP with 3PP is shit doesn't mean everyone feels that way. There are countless games that are 3PP oriented with entertaining PvP.

[Ken Bean 174]

We don't know. The 4th wall isn't changing the grafics

This has been explained A FUCKING LOT!

Yet hordes of people are physically (or otherwise) incapable of playing it that way...

 

Tommes, particularly DayZ would get boring, just like other bacillion 1st person titles. We don't need yet another one.

[Skinup69 24]

As for the cinematic feel for videos in 3rd person,

its great for watching someone's story in DayZ because u connect more seeing the player.

DayZ is your story, not your PVP fight in 1st person mode.

[AllDayZSimon 75]

It is not up to you to define what kind of game this is. It has PvP in it. PvP with 3PP is shit.

 

Also, whatever type of game you think is being made is going to be drastically changed when they release private hives.

 

"This game has Pvp, pvp is shit in 3rd person" - Until there are no-pvp enforced servers. Then what of your argument?

[Ken Bean 174]

Funny thing is, that PvP folks is so PvP fixed that as they start a game, only server population counts.

 

***

PvP player looks into server browser --> doesn't find any populated 1st person only server --> looks at populated ones --> joins 3rd person enabled server --> ... this repeats 400 times ...  as a result, they don't get one bloody server full --> and PvP player starts complaining

***

 

Maybe we should fix that 1st person only server or the server browser a bit, since the 1st person advocates seems to be a bit difficult to be enthused on empty server.

 

How about bots which *trick* them to joyn a 1st person sever, so they thinks it's a full one?

We obviously need to cater them full server.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Ken Bean

[floj 393]

Also, whatever type of game you think is being made is going to be drastically changed when they release private hives.

 

"This game has Pvp, pvp is shit in 3rd person" - Until there are no-pvp enforced servers. Then what of your argument?

It affects PvE as well. Read the OP.

 

Funny thing is, that PvP folks is so PvP fixed that as they start a game, only server population counts.

 

***

PvP player looks into server browser --> doesn't find any populated 1st person only server --> looks at populated ones --> joins 3rd person enabled server --> ... this repeats 400 times ...  as a result, they don't get one bloody server full --> and PvP player starts complaining

***

 

Maybe we should fix that 1st person only server a bit, since the 1st person advocates seems to be not curable in that regards.

 

How about bots which *trick* them to joyn a 1st person sever, so they thinks it's a full one?

We obviously need to cater them full server.

Bots might work, or just adding a button to differentiate between 1PP and 3PP servers (easy/normal difficulty)

 

It's obvious from previous forum posts that many new users think the lack of 3PP is a broken server, when in fact they just aren't aware that 1PP servers exist.

[Ken Bean 174]

It affects PvE as well. Read the OP.

 

Bots might work, or just adding a button to differentiate between 1PP and 3PP servers (easy/normal difficulty)

 

It's obvious from previous forum posts that many new users think the lack of 3PP is a broken server, when in fact they just aren't aware that 1PP servers exist.

Jep, the server browser definately needs more and better information. Also server time day/night.

Or we just should seperate them into two categories, like 1st person / 3rd person, and then not showing any player numbers.

[floj 393]

Personally I'd like a server queue system so you just choose a region then get put in a full server. Avoiding high player counts in an MMO is just as much an exploit as seeing round corners in a horror game for me.

[tommes 331]

No mayb that's why they play 3rd person because its different.

Sure. But it is one key argument that pops up continuously. Never knew there were so many people suffering from motion sickness by playing 3D games.

Don't get me wrong! I'm not saying this ain't an issue. I just think some people just became aware of their "disease" since this is been discussed here...

[S0UTHPAW 12]

 

 

3rd person is not less immersive. In fact it's not much different from 1st person view. You make up a big difference as you wish, but since 3rd person feels more right, it's even more immersive to me than 1st. One thing you need to understand is, that this is nothing but a personel preference.

 

And again, 1st person view is limited. It is not realistic. In real life we have a way better perception of ourself and our souroundings. Please accept that the 3rd person view is needed to implement sth like a "self awareness" into the game while moving around and doing survival stuff. DayZ is not only a shooter, it also is a survival game/experience. So in order to experience the survival part, you need to transport this somehow to the player. And this is perfectly done by watching your character doing survival stuff, getting a better idea of what's happening with you.

 

Alright, you clearly didn't watch the video in the OP, which explains how 3rd person doesn't really give you much more situational awareness, just an unrealistic advantage. Please at least read/watch the OP before jumping on and saying stupid things.

And yet you are complaining because there are too few player on the 1st person server.

Tell me: how does few player on a server disturbs your survival experience?

Well, it doen't. I figure you don't care that much.

--> You are looking for PvP and with a full server it's easier to PvP.

 

"How does few player on a server disturbs your survival experience?" Well, after translating your neanderthal-speak, I can provide you with an answer: There are hardly any zombies in the game at the moment. You expect people to play on servers with hardly any people? Let's see you have fun on a server with 5 people. Yeah, unless you're just into collecting loot for the sake of it, I don't think that'll happen.