Fix (not remove) Third Person Perspective

[tommes 331]

The 4th wall alleviates some of the issue but they can still see the environment when you couldn't in FPV, there is still an advantage with that in terms of situational awareness.  Also, this is a discussion topic on fixing the 3PP, why did this suddenly turn into "3PP sucks, it will never be fixed, we have 3PP and 1PP servers etc".  It would be naive to say that it can never be fixed and ignorant to say that 3PP should be removed completely since a large majority of people simply can't enjoy the game in FPV.

Because some people here are not fit for discussion.

[tommes 331]

I can see fog happen, but not the limited vision.

Having actual 'gasmask-vision' would be great, but I'm afraid things like that won't happen if they have to develop them for half the servers only.

They don't develop stuff for certain servers. The develop stuff for views. If they decide to have 2 different views in their game, then they have the obligation to do stuff for both!

They have to make mask vision for 1PP anyway, because non of the 3PP advocates will play without it.

[tommes 331]

Using your CoD analogy, the vast majority of players use those perks and enjoy playing that way.

Sure they do. The majority is a mindless bunch with no clue, no honor, no decency. Only the good players with standards for themselves develop a code of honor and refrain from using lame items and tactics.

The fact that there is a small group that would kick players from servers for using perks because it's not "hardcore" enough for them is ridiculous. That's the definition of an elitist player right there.

As usually you didn't get the point. It had not much to do with "hardcore" or not but all with enabling the player do really annoying stuff to all other players outside any sensible manner.

It is a mulitplayer game! It is not about you alone and therefore not everything is your personal decision. The playground has to be kept level to ensure a decent gaming experience. Just as certain rules have to be enforced to make sports not a simple waste of time for both, participants and audience.

The same thing goes for trying to remove 3rd person view. It's ridiculous considering most players don't take video games nearly as seriously as you do.

So why are they fighting for life to keep 3PP the way it is? Why do they have a problem with the 4th wall?

I just want to play games without bullshit in it. The problem is, there are virtually none. On the contrary. All the present games seem to try to accumulate as much bullshit as possible to make it appealing to the present day gamer.

I thought DayZ would be such a non bullshit game and made me come back to gaming after not playing anything for more than a year.

[tommes 331]

If you don't like 3rd person than don't play on a 3rd person server, simple as that!

Can someone please explain the problem to me?

Would you please bother to read the fucking thread first? And maybe the one we had back in September. There's a link somewhere here in this thread. It has been explained a lot of times. I'm tired of doing it over and over again for every "fresh spawn" here.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I just want to play games without bullshit in it. The problem is, there are virtually none. On the contrary. All the present games seem to try to accumulate as much bullshit as possible to make it appealing to the present day gamer.

I thought DayZ would be such a non bullshit game and made me come back to gaming after not playing anything for more than a year.

 

A bit off-topic but Tommes you should check out the mod Project Reality for Battlefield2, it's really the only multiplayer game I've played that comes close to being bullshit free. One of their first changes in the mod, removed third person view.

Edited January 16, 2014 by bad_mojo

[dallas 5195]

You mean, they should make it so the 'over-the-head' cam was wearing the mask, glasses/broken glasses and such?

 

I guess that could work. Would look funny though, but it just might work.

Just use the same kind of filter or overlay as first person uses. If the gas mask is damaged, there's more scratches on the screen and add a thin plasticy filter on top of pristine masks. Add "fog" to the screen as your breathing increase and add a more darth vadery breathing sound. While the gas mask has two holes for eyes, just like with binoculars, the brain somehow compensates and combines the two sight pictures, so I don't see, how you couldn't also use the same overlay in third person. Edited January 16, 2014 by Dallas

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Just use the same kind of filter or overlay as first person uses. If the gas mask is damaged, there's more scratches on the screen and add a thin plasticy filter on top of pristine masks. Add "fog" to the screen as your breathing increase and add a more darth vadery breathing sound. While the gas mask has two holes for eyes, just like with binoculars, the brain somehow compensates and combines the two sight pictures, so I don't see, how you couldn't also use the same overlay in third person.

 

I think the problem is with a third person perspective your vision is rather unaffected. In first person, when you look at something close to you, you have a very narrow field of view. For example when looking down at a dead body with a gas mask or night vision obscuring your peripheral vision, you can only see their center mass. When you zoom the camera out behind the players head for third person, that reduced field of view you have in first person just doesn't have the same effect in third, you'll probably be able to see the whole body, maybe more. Basically the further away the camera is, the less it will obscure. To be "fair" third person would have to be obscured more than first person. But, that's silly and won't happen.

 

Edit: Here's what I mean visually...

http://i.imgur.com/UMOd2YV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1xJ27wj.jpg

Edited January 16, 2014 by bad_mojo

[gibonez 3633]

What needs to happen to tpv is they need to fix the looking around corners exploit.

 

Not only fix it but make it so players do not render or pop when the head can actually see them this way people cannot cheat and scan areas and detect players by merely peeking and then unpeeking until they can see some flicker where a player is.

 

TPV needs to be made so un usable that people have no choice but to stick to fpv since they would have a huge disadvantage in tpv.

 

This is the only solution and this way people who want to continue to look at their characters can but will no longer have an advantage.

[Vodski 7]

Doesn't really bother me either way, I mostly run around in 1st person, except when running across a field, or leaving a building / going around a wall. My first few days playing, I didn't even know how to go into 3rd person.

[Skinup69 24]

I like 1st person because its easy to move about, easy not to be seen, easy to camp and easy to camp without being seen.

Learn to adapt, if u can't your not a good overall gamer.

Infact try and flank someone in 3rd person it's about 10x harder then 1st because of your reasons.

I've been playing FPS online before any of you guys had pubes.

Don't cry because you get owned in 3rd person.

90 or even 100% of 3rd person players can play 1st person..been around since the 90's!

We choose not too because its not a PVP, COD or counter strike game.

So in a year when everything is the same with views..think of me.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Skinup69

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I like 1st person because its easy to move about, easy not to be seen, easy to camp and easy to camp without being seen.

Learn to adapt if u can't your not a good overall gamer.

Infact try and flank someone in 3rd person it's about 10x harder then 1st because of your reasons.

I've been playing FPS online before any of you guys had pubes.

Don't cry because you get owned in 3rd person.

90 or even 100% of 3rd person players can play 1st person.

We choose not too because its not a PVP, COD or counter strike game.

So in a year when everything is the same with views..think of me.

 

Pretty sure you meant to say 3rd person in your first sentence.

 

Pretty sure I already had pubes when Doom came out.

 

100% of 3rd person players would have trouble playing without 1st.

 

Please come on these forums and cry when the first round of changes happen. Maybe even record your reactions to the change logs, I want to see your face when you read something like...

 

[Added] Changes to the way third person view works. [On-going]

[victusmortuus 1074]

Or you know? just leave it because it's not broken. As previously said in this thread, you had FPV servers on Dayz, you NEVER used them, now you want to force everybody to play in a style they don't want too, this is crazy talk.

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

Or you know? just leave it because it's not broken.

*sigh*

 

I posted this in another thread (linking back here, actually, because for some reason we seem to need FOUR THOUSAND threads about the same topic), but I'm going to quote it because it's relevant.

 

For info, "the OP of the thread I linked" is this thread.  :rolleyes:

And around in circles we go. Yay!

 

Seriously, look at the video on the OP of the thread I linked a page back and then tell me 3PP does not give an advantage to the player using it. Whether the other players on that server use 3PP or not is wholly irrelevant, the person using 3PP has a situational advantage and THIS is the fundamental problem with 3PP in its current form. Calls to play on a 1PP only server or to just use 3PP do not fix the fact that 3PP gives an advantage in favour of the user. I posted a viable solution (in the other thread) that would prevent 3PP players using it to gain an advantage without preventing people using 3PP (irrespective of whether they use it for said advantage) and without having to split the community in half by forcing one setting or not, so I'm not even sure why this debate rages on.

 

TL;DR: Give it a fucking rest already.

[victusmortuus 1074]

Did you leave out the rest of my post on purpose there? You missed this part I see.

 As previously said in this thread, you had FPV servers on Dayz, you NEVER used them, now you want to force everybody to play in a style they don't want too, this is crazy talk.

[Skinup69 24]

Nope what I said is what I wrote so read it again.

Plus wolfenstein was before doom.

If your an old school gamer like you said, you should be able to deal with 3rd and 1st with no problems.

Did you play doom2 online when it was first out??

If so how? We will see how old school u are.

Pretty sure you meant to say 3rd person in your first sentence.

Pretty sure I already had pubes when Doom came out.

100% of 3rd person players would have trouble playing without 1st.

Please come on these forums and cry when the first round of changes happen. Maybe even record your reactions to the change logs, I want to see your face when you read something like...

[Added] Changes to the way third person view works. [On-going]

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

And you've clearly missed the point I made. My solution does not prevent people using either view style, does not force a particular view style, and nor does it split the community by doing either of those things. What it does do is remove any advantage someone may have by using 3PP. Simple.

[victusmortuus 1074]

And you've clearly missed the point I made. My solution does not prevent people using either view style, does not force a particular view style, and nor does it split the community by doing either of those things. What it does do is remove any advantage someone may have by using 3PP. Simple.

 

Nah :). Let's leave it shall we. 

[tommes 331]

I've been playing FPS online before any of you guys had pubes.

Yeah! You're so fucking cool. We can stop discussing stuff now and just do as you say, because you are the only one here born before the interwebz...

Don't cry because you get owned in 3rd person.

That "Don't whine, you loser!" thing often beeing used in such discussions makes we wanna punch people in the face. Pointing out that something is bad is not whining and it obviously needs to be done.

We choose not too because its not a PVP, COD or counter strike game.

It is not up to you to define what kind of game this is. It has PvP in it. PvP with 3PP is shit.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

The people who keep saying nothing needs to be fixed, need to stop posting in this thread. Go make a new thread about keeping third person unchanged, if you feel that passionate about it.

 

Just because this discussion is pointless to you, doesn't mean it's pointless to everyone. You guys are making it very difficult for anyone to discuss changes to the view.

 

You're free to add to the discussion from your viewpoint. But, repeatedly saying there's nothing wrong with 3rd person is adding nothing to the discussion. You can mention your feelings, just don't use it as ammunition to dismiss other points of view. And don't make it the only point in your post.

 

I could sit here and find ways to keep saying third person should be removed entirely, but I'm not doing that because this thread is specifically about fixing it, not removing it. It's pointless for me to push that idea, the same way it's pointless for you guys to push the idea that there's nothing wrong with third person.

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

Thank you Mojo, some common sense at last.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Nope what I said is what I wrote so read it again.

Plus wolfenstein was before doom.

If your an old school gamer like you said, you should be able to deal with 3rd and 1st with no problems.

Did you play doom2 online when it was first out??

If so how? We will see how old school u are.

 

You were playing multiplayer Wolfenstein before doom came out? Not that it matters but I played doom, heretic, dukenukem and all the classic FPS games mutiplayer on a 28.8 modem. I don't see what it has to do with this discussion.

 

As a player, I can deal with whatever the game throws at me. But, as an armchair game developer, the whole point is forcing your view of whats right onto the player. Wanting a more controlled third person camera isn't about 'not being able to handle it'. It's about what should be possible. What should a player have to handle.

 

The idea that the players has to worry about hidden people watching them, goes against the authenticity that Rocket wants in this game. It's a 'gamey' mechanic, because you have to learn how the game works and how it can be exploited, in order to even know the dangers. It's not something a new player will even be aware of.

[Skinup69 24]

Dude just because you think it's bad does not make it bad.

You guys just want more players to play on your lonely ass servers.

Go do one.

Yeah! You're so fucking cool. We can stop discussing stuff now and just do as you say, because you are the only one here born before the interwebz...

That "Don't whine, you loser!" thing often beeing used in such discussions makes we wanna punch people in the face. Pointing out that something is bad is not whining and it obviously needs to be done.

It is not up to you to define what kind of game this is. It has PvP in it. PvP with 3PP is shit.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Dude just because you think it's bad does not make it bad.

You guys just want more players to play on your lonely ass servers.

Go do one.

 

 

Actually, no. Because the lead developer of this game has repeatedly said he think it's bad, and has also said he wants to keep third person if he can. I chose to discuss the topic of fixing third person.

 

First person servers are currently not lonely, and I only play on them.

 

I'll just quote my other post, since you failed to get the message.

 

The people who keep saying nothing needs to be fixed, need to stop posting in this thread. Go make a new thread about keeping third person unchanged, if you feel that passionate about it.

 

Just because this discussion is pointless to you, doesn't mean it's pointless to everyone. You guys are making it very difficult for anyone to discuss changes to the view.

 

You're free to add to the discussion from your viewpoint. But, repeatedly saying there's nothing wrong with 3rd person is adding nothing to the discussion. You can mention your feelings, just don't use it as ammunition to dismiss other points of view. And don't make it the only point in your post.

 

I could sit here and find ways to keep saying third person should be removed entirely, but I'm not doing that because this thread is specifically about fixing it, not removing it. It's pointless for me to push that idea, the same way it's pointless for you guys to push the idea that there's nothing wrong with third person.

[tommes 331]

Dude just because you think it's bad does not make it bad.

Sure it does. In my opinion. Sorry I forgot the Opinion tags, that have to be associated to every statement of opinion, because otherways everything is fact...

You guys just want more players to play on your lonely ass servers.

Our secret plan is to force 3PP players on our turf and then drive them crazy with face to face KoS'ing. Then we flame them for whining in the forums for further humiliation. It's not that we like playing games. We're just here to rob others of their childish fun.

[Skinup69 24]

Ok good someone with a good background.

No not wolfenstein but Doom2 on serial cable PC to PC before the bet was out.

Yes I don't disagree with that but a game is a game, you either adapt to it or you don't.

I for one don't think they can change it, or they will change it.

Until I hear Rocket say he's 100% changing it then mayb.

If they made it 1st person only then I would not complain.

I complain because others are moaning and they have tunnel vision on the first person view.

I've had a console players tell me if you don't play first person on DayZ or Arma you ain't good.

Now that's the dumbest thing I've heard..15 years of FPS shooters never goes away.

3rd person makes it more fun, more open and alot more immersive.

Plus it is more challenging flanking people on it.

As for a sandbox game..looking over walls and roofs isn't great because it takes long to get gear to loss it like that, but that's what we got to deal with if we decide to play 3rd person.

I hate the people that think there better at the game because they play 1st person on DayZ.

Everyone knows how to play 1st person, it's really not hard using your ears.

You were playing multiplayer Wolfenstein before doom came out? Not that it matters but I played doom, heretic, dukenukem and all the classic FPS games mutiplayer on a 28.8 modem. I don't see what it has to do with this discussion.

As a player, I can deal with whatever the game throws at me. But, as an armchair game developer, the whole point is forcing your view of whats right onto the player. Wanting a more controlled third person camera isn't about 'not being able to handle it'. It's about what should be possible. What should a player have to handle.

The idea that the players has to worry about hidden people watching them, goes against the authenticity that Rocket wants in this game. It's a 'gamey' mechanic, because you have to learn how the game works and how it can be exploited, in order to even know the dangers. It's not something a new player will even be aware of.