Fix (not remove) Third Person Perspective

[serenityrick 218]

I play this game mostly in third person except for combat and specific loot situations. I love seeing my character's appearance and how awesome I find him to look with certain types of clothing. Whats the point of all this customization if I won't be able to see it? Everyone has the same advantages regarding 1st and 3rd person. I probably would stop playing this game if I was forced to play it in First Person only. One of the big draws to me were survival aspects and the large potential for customizing your characters appearance. Whether I want a military/police or civilian appearance is up to me. I want to see my character and removing the 3rd person aspect of the game will just make me go somewhere else. Im sure very few care but I am also sure this is an important aspect for other players as well. Third person also allows you to verify your surroundings in a quicker way. If the angles viewed is an issue and people complain I can understand but don't remove an entire aspect of the game for something of the sort. There are first person only servers for those who this is too big an issue. As a first person shooter Day Z leaves much to be desired but as both I find the game as close to perfection when it comes to character control and combat.

 

You can see what you're wearing every time you hit TAB though..

 

Is everyone really so vain that they have to constantly see what their character looks like at all times when performing animations? That seems weird to me, haha.

 

In my opinion when you stack up that vanity versus being able to spot people over and around walls... I'd lose the vanity every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

I agree with Bad_Mojo about the WoT comparison.. if you were running along and saw a player or vehicle popping in and out of existence, it would draw the eye a lot easier than if you were in 1st person all the time.. so it's arguable that even that 'solution' might still be a problem.

With that said, it's still better than what we have. It really sucks that that if I want to play on a populated server, I have to completely change the way I play in cities or indoors because I have to assume people are able to easily see me while I cannot see them. That sucks, plain and simple.

 

EDIT - And if you treat the game like an action game where you run all over the place then maybe that's not a big deal for you.

Personally, I like strategy when entering a village or city.. covering flanks and slowly clearing out buildings. That type of play style is more or less completely negated on 3PP servers

Edited January 9, 2014 by serenityrick

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Is everyone really so vain that they have to constantly see what their character looks like at all times when performing animations? That seems weird to me, haha.

 

Seeing yourself in 3rd person does have its uses, beside being vain. I would really like the inventory screen to better represent what your character currently looks like from 3rd person. Rather than the doll we have now, it should be animated, change stance, bleed and hold items. Basically, turn it into a 3rd person view of your character, with everything else removed.

[The_Man 393]

I don't see why the inventory screen doesn't fulfill the need to see your characters appearance from the 3rd person perspective.

 

Not saying it's a good replacement for 3rd person. Just saying I use it a lot for that purpose while playing in first person servers.

 

 

Not saying it is a good reason but 3rd person screenshots > 1st person screenshots 

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Not saying it is a good reason but 3rd person screenshots > 1st person screenshots 

 

Screen shots from another players perspective > *

[The_Man 393]

Screen shots from another players perspective > *

 

I play alone most of the time. I'm getting the poop end of the stick. Rocket wants 3rd person gone and dislikes Lonewolf players! 

 

Guess I need to change my play style! :P 

[ashigaru 6]

To be honest if they took 3rd person out i wouldnt play and i think a lot of people feel the same way.

[Sidewinder24 103]

To be honest if they took 3rd person out i wouldnt play and i think a lot of people feel the same way.

The sad fact is, if they fix 3rd person so that it isn't exploitative, a majority of those same people will also stop playing. They're not interested in playing the game on a level playing field.

[tommes 331]

I think this would be even more difficult than the periscope problem. Maybe combining a legit third person fix like the fourth wall and then perhaps reducing the FOV around the character, hazing the view in TPV too to simulate the dirty visor effect (I work in a lab IRL and experience this regularly through goggles and other headgear). Not sure exactly how the end result would appear though.

That's a screen of how night vision goggles are handled in Arma 2 1PP and 3PP.

 

 

Something like that would be ok I guess.

 

There should definitely be a downside to wearing gas masks and helmets as there is in real life. I've been to the military and had training there with gas masks on...believe me...you don't put that thing on without a good reason and you take it off as soon as you can. FOV is reduced, it's very hot inside and breathing is much harder.

[tommes 331]

will someone in the 1st person camp please respond to this?

What response do you expect? That has to be fixed. Period.

We are all for making 1PP as good as possible.

[tommes 331]

I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic about what fixing third person will do to it.

I can understand your scepticism but you could at least try to figure something out. Right now you're more like 

 

[tommes 331]

I agree with Bad_Mojo about the WoT comparison.. if you were running along and saw a player or vehicle popping in and out of existence, it would draw the eye a lot easier than if you were in 1st person all the time.. so it's arguable that even that 'solution' might still be a problem.

This might be solved by having motion blur for areas not in LOS.

[tommes 331]

To be honest if they took 3rd person out i wouldnt play and i think a lot of people feel the same way.

And it's exactly that kind of attitude that makes this even an issue and nurtures the so called "elitism" of the folks readily willing to give up some perks for a more plausible gaming experience.

I can understand that you guys WANT 3PP. What I can't understand is that you NEED it that desperately. My guess is except for some people really not able to stand 1PP only it's merely a lack of motivation to undergo the process of adapting.

 

Now, do you have anything to contribute to this topic of improving 3PP?

[Jamz 253]

That's a screen of how night vision goggles are handled in Arma 2 1PP and 3PP.

 

 

Something like that would be ok I guess.

 

There should definitely be a downside to wearing gas masks and helmets as there is in real life. I've been to the military and had training there with gas masks on...believe me...you don't put that thing on without a good reason and you take it off as soon as you can. FOV is reduced, it's very hot inside and breathing is much harder.

 

Ah yes I thought I'd seen that before - I so rarely got NVG's in the mod that it had slipped my mind lol. Something like that though, maybe with an effect on hearing too for the gas masks ie you can hear a constant muffled breathing, perhaps the screen can fog up a little during exertion. What do you think?

[Nihilum 209]

And it's exactly that kind of attitude that makes this even an issue and nurtures the so called "elitism" of the folks readily willing to give up some perks for a more plausible gaming experience.

I can understand that you guys WANT 3PP. What I can't understand is that you NEED it that desperately. My guess is except for some people really not able to stand 1PP only it's merely a lack of motivation to undergo the process of adapting.

 

Now, do you have anything to contribute to this topic of improving 3PP?

Because FPP is a broken clunky mess that causes you to get hung up everywhere on everything.  :D 

TPP gives you a sense of bodily awareness, making navigating cramped spaces A LOT less frustrating.  B) 

[tommes 331]

Ah yes I thought I'd seen that before - I so rarely got NVG's in the mod that it had slipped my mind lol. Something like that though, maybe with an effect on hearing too for the gas masks ie you can hear a constant muffled breathing, perhaps the screen can fog up a little during exertion. What do you think?

Would be great.

[tommes 331]

Because FPP is a broken clunky mess that causes you to get hung up everywhere on everything.  :D 

TPP gives you a sense of bodily awareness, making navigating cramped spaces A LOT less frustrating.  B)

That can be fixed. Every 1PP advocate wants nothing more than 1PP to be the best possible.

There's an add-in for Arma2 (st_movement or something like that) that makes moving indoors much smoother. DayZero has that implemented. But even without that you can play very well in 1PP only. I guess the devs can do even better with access to the engine source.

Btw, one argument for removing 3PP completely always was to force the devs to improve 1PP instead of relying on the rather quick'n'dirty fix of having magical floating camera 3m away from you. But that's not topic here.

[The_Man 393]

Every 1PP advocate wants nothing more than 1PP to be the best possible.

 

 

I disagree. I've talked to some 1PP advocates and they generally seem to be nitpickers. They only want third person removed but don't want other things removed that are immersion breaking. Not calling you out at all. You seem like one of the more reasonable people. I just don't want third person to be the major fix for game plausbility as you mentioned. I really want the developers to address this in depth soon. We seem to be arguing in circles and some news from them on this hot topic will really allow us to further this discussion. Do you agree (with the last statement)? 

[tommes 331]

I disagree. I've talked to some 1PP advocates and they generally seem to be nitpickers. They only want third person removed but don't want other things removed that are immersion breaking.

In my opinion immerson is a personal issue. I don't care how immersed people feel and don't use that as an argument. My main concern is breaking plausibility, especially regarding combat behaviour, and discouraging using lame tactics.

I just don't want third person to be the major fix for game plausbility as you mentioned.

Arma2 and based mods don't feel good compared to other similar games. The reasons are

- low framerates

- getting stuck on things

- not beeing able to jump

- bad controls for interacting with the environment (climbing ladders, opening doors etc.)

- clipping errors

All of that can be improved...probably a lot. Some of that already has been improved by plugins like st_movement for example and implementing jumping in SA.

I really want the developers to address this in depth soon. We seem to be arguing in circles and some news from them on this hot topic will really allow us to further this discussion. Do you agree (with the last statement)?

We can discuss how things should be and possible ways to achieve that without involving the devs. Sure, developer feedback could be helping, e.g. by cancelling out certain suggestions because they can't be done for some reason, or presenting something adressing the issues we're talking about.

[BwickFS39 9]

What response do you expect? That has to be fixed. Period.

We are all for making 1PP as good as possible.

It proves my point that I said earlier in this thread that we are jumping the gun and we need to wait longer into the development process to discuss this issue. Edited January 9, 2014 by BwickFS39

[tommes 331]

We are discussing alterations for 3PP. The present state of 1PP ain't that relevant for that. Most of it is philosophical anyway.

[Mcleane 24]

I don't think that 3rd person should be removed as there are still people out there that enjoy the game in that perspective besides the ones that use it to ghost, In my opinion all that needs to be done and has been done is allow for 1st person servers so you cater to both parties and then everyone is happy.

[gibonez 3633]

It proves my point that I said earlier in this thread that we are jumping the gun and we need to wait longer into the development process to discuss this issue.

 

But we can all agree that TPV is broken correct ?

 

Why not kill tpv in the alpha to test public reaction and more importantly how it affects gameplay and player interaction.

 

The later on introduced the fixed tpv that does not allow you to cheat around corners.

[mushroom911 14]

Implement Fog of War, it could be calculated in a similar manner as HDR and god rays are calculated, except from the player's eyes.

Things in the fog of war are simply not rendered, this would also increase performance considerably, especially in cities.

Check out men of war assault squad, they nail field of view mechanics pretty well.

[tommes 331]

If the server would have to render all that it would probably be way too harsh on performance. If you outsource that to the client it would be susceptible to hacks. So this could be a nightmare from a developers point of view.

[libertine 351]

Since they allowed the 3rd=off option, i don't hardly see any server available. I think it is unrealistic to expect people to switch over due to several factors i wont go into. I DO however wish they would implement the forth wall and also provide more control over your body like in Arma 3. Since i play a vigilante who only shoots after being shot at or must witness a murder that wasn't just self defence, i need to find as many players as i can to get some PvP in, which i love but cant do in this game because i always play games realistically and i know im not going to kill people for their beans in RL. So ill be in Cherno up on a high platform looking to witness a murder but must find people first. Its very hard to do when people aren't poking their heads out to realistically view the area, their often just sitting because cover, using 3rd, zooming in....