Fix (not remove) Third Person Perspective

[Jamz 253]

I'm beginning to think that splitting the hives will be the only option which is acceptable. But... I had thought about the possibility of another TPV mod which may help.

 

I imagined a tighter view from the cam, maybe a couple of feet back from the right shoulder and eye level. Now the important part would be that the cam positioning would be locked in such a way in which it could not be exploited. Imagine an invisible 'box' behind the character where the camera is free to move about, but when the camera gets to a position where the characters eyes themselves cannot see (the edge of the box) it goes no further.

 

For instance, if the player looked down so the camera would rise above eye level, it stops rising and as it hits the edge of the box it starts to pan down, looking at the the characters back and on to its feet (looking up is unaffected). If he looks right, the cam only moves out as far as his head is rather than swing out. The characters head itelf may have to fade from some angles as not to block the view.

 

I think if something like this could be developed, it may reduce or even eliminate any exploitation of the cam itself. The trick would be making the whole thing seem natural I suppose.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Jamz

[cataclyststa 8]

they did make 1st person only servers for a reason

[floj 393]

they did make 1st person only servers for a reason

Because we wanted them until they fix 3PP. Potentially they might never fix 3PP, so we'll play on separate servers and hives. Not really a solution, just a compromise which will work for the alpha... but will mean more work when they come to balance the game...as I must have said 99 times already.

 

We're discussing possible fixes for the broken mechanic in 3PP so that ALL the playerbase experiences the game as the devs intend.

Edited January 8, 2014 by phlOgistOn

[Sidewinder24 103]

No one has a problem with 3rd person in the sense that it allows you to view your character. The only reason people harp on about it is how the disembodied camera gives you a grossly un-authentic and wholly exploitative advantage against other players. Remove that aspect of 3rd person and the debate dies.

 

Anyone that doesn't think 3rd person needs to be changed to remove this game-breaking condition is obviously not interested in using 3rd person just so they can see their character but are rather so accustomed to exploiting with it, they're worried about how it will destroy their survival rate.

[BwickFS39 9]

This is me laying prone in the 1st person scoped in how am I am able to operate at this time if there say someone I've been stalking and I lay in ambush for them and i go to fire and this happens? This supports what i said earlier that this discussion is way to soon speaking from where we are in the development process. Also if you scope up and are moving your player model glitches through your LOS, so again lets agree to disagree and visit this again later in the development process.

Edited January 8, 2014 by BwickFS39

[Al Bobo 53]

I made similar thread some days ago with the same 3pp tweak OP is suggesting now, but it didn't catch fire then. I hope to see it patched in the game soon. After all, this IS alpha so it's possible to try all kinds of things. Many people are saying that it would be unintuitive, but we adapt quickly. After 1 or 2 hours, you would forget the urge to peep over walls or around corners with camera.

 

Edit: BwickFS39, clearly someone sneaked behind you and put a burlap sack over your head. Sorry! Couldn't resist :P

Edited January 8, 2014 by Al Bobo

[gamer222 86]

Separate servers only solution...

[Max Planck 7174]

Separate servers only solution...

 

It is not the only possible solution. This thread is here so people can debate the issue, no so we can chant slogans at each other.

 

If you have nothing to contribute, then stay out.

 

 

 

EDIT:

Did nobody have anything to say about the issue with vision affecting helmets/glasses/masks/gasmasks and 3rd person?

Edited January 8, 2014 by Max Planck

[gamer222 86]

I see you have pick on me cuz i don't agree with his views what kind debate is that...???

[gamer222 86]

3d person is fine as it is... there is reason why is called 3d person... what you guys debating is to make 3d person as 1st person are you kidding me??

[gamer222 86]

Deleting my comments and warning me cuz im not agree with him is this forums downhill

[Max Planck 7174]

I see you have pick on me cuz i don't agree with his views what kind debate is that...???

3d person is fine as it is... there is reason why is called 3d person... what you guys debating is to make 3d person as 1st person are you kidding me??

Deleting my comments and warning me cuz im not agree with him is this forums downhill

 

Stop ruining the topic, have a day off.

[dallas 5195]

I don't fully follow the logic or purpose of separating the hives.

[floj 393]

It is not the only possible solution. This thread is here so people can debate the issue, no so we can chant slogans at each other.

 

If you have nothing to contribute, then stay out.

 

 

 

EDIT:

Did nobody have anything to say about the issue with vision affecting helmets/glasses/masks/gasmasks and 3rd person?

I threw an option out there for just more mindless obscuring of views...same issue with backpacks when a player is looking behind themselves. It's not a good option though so I'm still researching other 3PP games to see how such things might have been implemented in the past :)

 

 

I don't fully follow the logic or purpose of separating the hives.

I hope it's a stopgap until 3PP can be fixed so that one perspective doesn't have an advantage over the other. Separate servers is *really* all that's needed here, but without separate hives players could potentially go to the easier playmode and stack up on gear before coming into their normal ones...regarding easier playmodes, at the moment, the 'hardcore' 1PP servers are easier because there's less chance of hidden pvpers using wallglitches to hunt you without any chance of counter-observation. Once zombie AI and ability is improved, then the pve aspects should turn the 1PP servers into the tougher arena for survival.

[gibonez 3633]

EDIT:

Did nobody have anything to say about the issue with vision affecting helmets/glasses/masks/gasmasks and 3rd person?

 

Vision affecting helmets etc will be awesome and insanely immersive.

 

Misery mod for Stalker did a fantastic job of representing this.

http://youtu.be/cQM-lCAfh50?t=4m19s

 

Helmets blocked some vision but added much needed protection.

 

Only problem is Dayz will never reach this level of immersion and depth unless they delete tpv.

[Jamz 253]

 

EDIT:

Did nobody have anything to say about the issue with vision affecting helmets/glasses/masks/gasmasks and 3rd person?

 

I think this would be even more difficult than the periscope problem. Maybe combining a legit third person fix like the fourth wall and then perhaps reducing the FOV around the character, hazing the view in TPV too to simulate the dirty visor effect (I work in a lab IRL and experience this regularly through goggles and other headgear). Not sure exactly how the end result would appear though.

[BwickFS39 9]

[*snip-the-giant-picture*]

This is me laying prone in the 1st person scoped in how am I am able to operate at this time if there say someone I've been stalking and I lay in ambush for them and i go to fire and this happens? This supports what i said earlier that this discussion is way to soon speaking from where we are in the development process. Also if you scope up and are moving your player model glitches through your LOS, so again lets agree to disagree and visit this again later in the development process.

will someone in the 1st person camp please respond to this?

Edited January 8, 2014 by Max Planck

[Max Planck 7174]

will someone in the 1st person camp please respond to this?

 

Relax, people will respond in their own time (or not), no need to repost your giant picture.

 

As for your question:

Just because you experience an, as of yet, unfixed glitch, it doesn't mean we are not allowed to discuss how the different perspectives should be implemented. If you don't want to discuss them, you are free not to.

 

 

I'm in the DayZ camp, by the way.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

You're still being really negative about things. How about changing your approach and leave the "that's all bullshit" part for another day and place? Try to find possible solutions to the problem! Please! If we don't change our patterns we will have the same old circle debate again.

 

I remember someone having this idea back in the big thread in September of blurring out everything not in LOS. That would eliminate the exploits while beeing obvious and therefore probably more intuitive at least This probably must be combined with the 4th wall to make sense.

 

I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic about what fixing third person will do to it.

 

I've played a lot of world of tanks, it uses the line of sight system along with some spotting mechanics, it took a long time to get used to the fact that while I can see over these rocks or bushes and it looks clear, there are still people there. World of tanks uses pretty basic maps, with little cover. DayZ on the other hand has a million angles and cover options in just about every area of the map.

 

I just feel like we're trying to put the 3rd person view on par with first person and the line of sight fix will put it at a disadvantage to first. Except of course, for the flashing models exploit someone outlined above, when peaking around cover and making people appear. World of Tanks handles that with the spotting system, DayZ has no such mechanics.

[Jamz 253]

I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic about what fixing third person will do to it.

 

I've played a lot of world of tanks, it uses the line of sight system along with some spotting mechanics, it took a long time to get used to the fact that while I can see over these rocks or bushes and it looks clear, there are still people there. World of tanks uses pretty basic maps, with little cover. DayZ on the other hand has a million angles and cover options in just about every area of the map.

 

I just feel like we're trying to put the 3rd person view on par with first person and the line of sight fix will put it at a disadvantage to first. Except of course, for the flashing models exploit someone outlined above, when peaking around cover and making people appear. World of Tanks handles that with the spotting system, DayZ has no such mechanics.

 

I don't think you can really compare DayZ with WoT, but I know what you're saying here (I have over 12k battles in WoT myself). I would argue that 3rd person in WoT is there to make driving the tank easier and using the turret at the same time a playable function for combat, whereas in DayZ it's not just about combat but also a whole host of other actions/situations some of which benefit from the view. It's worth trying to save IMO.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Jamz

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I only compare the two because it was brought up that WOT uses the system that many people want to implement into dayz. I think there are many factors that make it work well in world of tanks, but I don't think it will work as well in dayz because a lot of those factors are different. Mainly that we're trying to spot camouflaged people in bushes, rather than giant tanks in grassy fields. A bit of an exaggeration since the tanks can be small and hide in bushes, but the point is people can actively camouflage themselves in dayz not only by their clothing but also their actions and movements. Having the ability to flash player models in and out of existence would instantly draw the eye to that part of your screen. Whereas if they didn't flash, you would overlook that clump of bushes because it doesn't stand out from the rest.

 

Like I said earlier. I have doubts about the POV system in dayz. I'm willing to try it, but I'm sure we will find plenty of faults with it.

[floj 393]

I only compare the two because it was brought up that WOT uses the system that many people want to implement into dayz. I think there are many factors that make it work well in world of tanks, but I don't think it will work as well in dayz because a lot of those factors are different. Mainly that we're trying to spot camouflaged people in bushes, rather than giant tanks in grassy fields. A bit of an exaggeration since the tanks can be small and hide in bushes, but the point is people can actively camouflage themselves in dayz not only by their clothing but also their actions and movements. Having the ability to flash player models in and out of existence would instantly draw the eye to that part of your screen. Whereas if they didn't flash, you would overlook that clump of bushes because it doesn't stand out from the rest.

 

Like I said earlier. I have doubts about the POV system in dayz. I'm willing to try it, but I'm sure we will find plenty of faults with it.

WoT doesn't use exactly the *same* system that we want to bring into DayZ, I just highlighted it as a 3PP pvp oriented game. But yeah, DayZ has more complex terrain (and a larger area of it). Then again, WoT has a large number of players clustered in the same area all together from the get-go. The servers would be having to perform no LOS checks between players that are several km away from each other in DayZ.

 

One thing that could reduce server load in a similar system in DayZ would be the short timer from a succesful spot before the player fades out of view in WoT. This and actually having a soft fade rather than hardcut in visibility might mitigate the pop-in issue somewhat.

[Adam.Stone 5]

I play this game mostly in third person except for combat and specific loot situations. I love seeing my character's appearance and how awesome I find him to look with certain types of clothing. Whats the point of all this customization if I won't be able to see it? Everyone has the same advantages regarding 1st and 3rd person. I probably would stop playing this game if I was forced to play it in First Person only. One of the big draws to me were survival aspects and the large potential for customizing your characters appearance. Whether I want a military/police or civilian appearance is up to me. I want to see my character and removing the 3rd person aspect of the game will just make me go somewhere else. Im sure very few care but I am also sure this is an important aspect for other players as well. Third person also allows you to verify your surroundings in a quicker way. If the angles viewed is an issue and people complain I can understand but don't remove an entire aspect of the game for something of the sort. There are first person only servers for those who this is too big an issue. As a first person shooter Day Z leaves much to be desired but as both I find the game as close to perfection when it comes to character control and combat.

[floj 393]

There's a lot of customisation in TF2 as well...and yet only other players get the joy of seeing that hat. Also customisation gives you an advantage in terms of concealment and lethality.

 

That said, we're not trying to remove 3PP, just fix it so that players in both modes get to experience the game as the devs intend it to be experienced. (and fix the PvP crutch/exploit at the same time)

Edited January 9, 2014 by phlOgistOn

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I don't see why the inventory screen doesn't fulfill the need to see your characters appearance from the 3rd person perspective.

 

Not saying it's a good replacement for 3rd person. Just saying I use it a lot for that purpose while playing in first person servers.