Accuracy comparison: DayZ vs ARMA 2

[gibonez 3633]

Agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

I also think it's way too accurate with the bipod deployed.

 

It's stupid that the bipod or any other accessory has any affect on accuracy.

 

Only thing the bipod should do is allow you to stabilize the sway of the gun when prone or when deployed on objects.

[Publik 404]

It's stupid that the bipod or any other accessory has any affect on accuracy.

 

Only thing the bipod should do is allow you to stabilize the sway of the gun when prone or when deployed on objects.

And it's not like gun sway is hard to add, it's already there if you run a bit.

[-Gews- 7443]

It's stupid that the bipod or any other accessory has any affect on accuracy.

 

The Mosin compensator is the other really annoying one...

 

It doesn't even reduce recoil at all, instead it does exactly the same thing as the bipod - gives the gun pinpoint accuracy. And it does it in all stances.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't even understand how someone could give it those properties without alarm bells going off in their heads, "beep-beep-beep-beep, this doesn't make any sense!"

[gibonez 3633]

Theres a compensator for the mosin now ?

[-Gews- 7443]

Theres a compensator for the mosin now ?

 

Nnnnnnnnno

 

But there will be, and it will do that.

[BelMarduk 169]

*snip*

 

Sorry for not being one of those "yes men"?

First ... Alpher!

That said, realistically (as you all know I dislike that word in relation to SA as 'authentic' is much more appropriate.) your accuracy with virtually any weapon can increase exponentially with added attachments. You do know what a muzzle compensator does, and why you would put on on a weapon?

Ever seen the show 'Top Shot'? Each new series of peoples going through all these HIGHLY TRAINED weapons experts (Top Shots) are usually given each get ONE shot   from a 'unique' weapon at a target, two closest get to be 'captains' and choose their teams.  Its usually funny to see these experts miss by inches targets 50 meters away. Point being is this, NO ONE will EVER (outside of blind luck) Special forces green beret included, pick up a weapon and start using it with precision proficiency. Bench/range conditions will require no less than three rounds to even decipher where the bullets are going, let alone 'figuring the gun out'. That's range conditions. Thats understanding (I mean really understanding) what you're looking at it the grouping. e.g. just because your grouping is slightly right of target, does NOT necessarily mean the gun is shooting to the right, you might have shit trigger control.

 

Should 'name brand parts' make a difference? yup. you get what you pay for.

 

A 'stock' M4 is shit. Should a butt stock really make a difference to accuracy, no matter the manufacturer? "Realistically'? NO "Authentically"? absolutely. In the same manner that "Realistically" does a morphine shot fix a broken leg? NO but its an 'authentic' problem/fix for the game. Absolutely.

Going back to 'Its Alpher"', could the numbers be tweaked? probably. Should the 'concept' behind the mechanic as it is now be changed? No, I think its wonderful. As there are no 'levels' in the game, equipment is your level....

Edited January 5, 2014 by BelMarduk

[-Gews- 7443]

That said, realistically (as you all know I dislike that word in relation to SA as 'authentic' is much more appropriate.) your accuracy with virtually any weapon can increase exponentially with added attachments. You do know what a muzzle compensator does, and why you would put on on a weapon?

I know what a compensator does. I also know what it doesn't do, which is turn an inaccurate 82-year old surplus rifle into a precision weapon system.

 

Ever seen the show 'Top Shot'? Each new series of peoples going through all these HIGHLY TRAINED weapons experts (Top Shots) are usually given each get ONE shot   from a 'unique' weapon at a target, two closest get to be 'captains' and choose their teams.  Its usually funny to see these experts miss by inches targets 50 meters away. Point being is this, NO ONE will EVER (outside of blind luck) Special forces green beret included, pick up a weapon and start using it with precision proficiency. Bench/range conditions will require no less than three rounds to even decipher where the bullets are going, let alone 'figuring the gun out'. That's range conditions. Thats understanding (I mean really understanding) what you're looking at it the grouping. e.g. just because your grouping is slightly right of target, does NOT necessarily mean the gun is shooting to the right, you might have shit trigger control.

 

No, I do not watch that show.

You may have missed the part where I said dispersion was for a "single, PERFECTLY AIMED" shot. Perfectly aimed being the operative phrase.

Show me a player who can actually be that accurate shot after shot without a high-magnification scope... there aren't any.

Even if guns had 0 dispersion, players would still miss all the time - guns should have reasonable dispersion, and that means the M4 should not be any less accurate than the Mosin.

 

 

Should 'name brand parts' make a difference? yup. you get what you pay for.

 

A 'stock' M4 is shit. Should a butt stock really make a difference to accuracy, no matter the manufacturer? "Realistically'? NO "Authentically"? absolutely. In the same manner that "Realistically" does a morphine shot fix a broken leg? NO but its an 'authentic' problem/fix for the game. Absolutely.

False analogy; morphine fixes a broken leg because a broken leg takes months of recovery and no one would tolerate that in a game.

Butt stocks having little or no effect on accuracy shouldn't bother anyone. That would not negatively affect their gameplay in any way. There is no "problem" to fix there. There are other advantages to different items, such as the ability to add attachments to rails, weight differences, etc.

Going back to my car example, if this was a racing game, would bucket seats and a body kit increase the top speed? No, because that has little to do with top speed.

About "authenticity": currently absolutely nothing is correct with weapons. Even simple-to-find stats like muzzle velocity are completely wrong. Scopes don't even magnify properly. Even bullet damages don't make sense.

With the new attachments and their unrealistic effects, the weapons are closer to Battlefield than to ARMA. And I refuse to accept that Battlefield's portrayal weapons are more "authentic" than ARMA's.

tl;dr: this isn't authentic and it's not intended to be, it is balanced gameplay. Opinions may vary; I think that's a very bad thing to have in a game like this one.

 

 

 

Going back to 'Its Alpher"', could the numbers be tweaked? probably. Should the 'concept' behind the mechanic as it is now be changed? No, I think its wonderful. As there are no 'levels' in the game, equipment is your level....

Alpha does not matter; these values are hard to get wrong, which suggests they are "working as intended". I don't like the intention.

Equipment doesn't have to be unrealistic to be desirable. An M4 should be something great, Magpul or not. It shouldn't spread like a shotgun.

A compensator should reduce your recoil, not change your accuracy. A bipod should stabilize the weapon, not make it more accurate.

Etc.

All those attachments and weapons would still be desirable and have different effects, only it would make sense.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Gews

[humberto 5]

well arma 2 had arma 1 before it....

 

dayz was based on arma 2....

 

if its based off arma 2, in theory, it should run and shoot like arma 2....one would think

[green_machine 179]

There is the flesh effect.
Arma 2 gunshots hit dead-centre every time as if they were fired from a gun welded into place onto a steel girder, I always thought this was inaccurate and I'm kinda glad DayZ has improved this.

A person holding a gun. A person who has flesh, bones and all that sinew. The recoil of the weapon when standin, crouching and prone... is ALWAYS different. 

Bearing in mind it's alpha and soon, there might be a skill system in place that will improve shot grouping. The current system feels fixed on Zero Xp for marksmanship. 

[gibonez 3633]

well arma 2 had arma 1 before it....

 

dayz was based on arma 2....

 

if its based off arma 2, in theory, it should run and shoot like arma 2....one would think

 

Even arma 2 had wonky unrealistic aspects when it came to shooting and ballistics.

 

Heck the entire damage model was unrealistic and based off bullet velocity don't even think it took bullet weight or energy into consideration.

 

Dayz team can do with a totally revamped system that is far more realistic .

[AmirDayz 54]

A few people have put forth the argument that players are "untrained"

Yet they are not bothered by the fact that every survivor is a trained paramedic.

Not bothered by the fact that every survivor has the stamina of a professional athlete.

Every survivor can deliver one hit knock outs like a professional boxer.

(presumably) can repair and operate every vehicle they encounter.

Can we have accurate rifles, please?

[green_machine 179]

Yet they are not bothered by the fact that every survivor is a trained paramedic.

Not bothered by the fact that every survivor has the stamina of a professional athlete.

Every survivor can deliver one hit knock outs like a professional boxer.

(presumably) can repair and operate every vehicle they encounter.

Can we have accurate rifles, please?

Wait for Xp updates.

Right now, when it comes to rifles, you point, shoot and hope for the best..... why are people so adamant on changing this?  :P

[AmirDayz 54]

Wait for Xp updates.

Right now, when it comes to rifles, you point, shoot and hope for the best..... why are people so adamant on changing this?  :P

Cause the most vocal voices in the DayZ community, both on these forums and on reddit, loathe the PvP aspects of the game and can't deal with the fact that a sniper perched in a good position has a good chance to ruin their loot gathering efforts, so they celebrate the nerfed gunplay as it supports their own style of play.

[Mao Zedong 48]

well i kinda like this "inaccuracy". In arma you play as, well basically a soldier. In dayz sa your a civilian. Give a m4 or a mosin to a regular joe and i assure you his accuracy wont be the same as a trained individual. So imo leave as is, it makes thing more interesting. If anything make ammo super rare.

 

I shot my first deer in the heart at about 200 meters with an m4 at the age of 6. Anyone can shoot.

[Mutonizer 78]

I shot my first deer in the heart at about 200 meters with an m4 at the age of 6. Anyone can shoot.

 

Deers don't shoot back...

[green_machine 179]

Cause the most vocal voices in the DayZ community, both on these forums and on reddit, loathe the PvP aspects of the game and can't deal with the fact that a sniper perched in a good position has a good chance to ruin their loot gathering efforts, so they celebrate the nerfed gunplay as it supports their own style of play.

Don't presume that you know what I want. 

[AmirDayz 54]

Don't presume that you know what I want.

Yeah sorry I apparently misread your post and thought that you aren't one of those guys who thinks that guns in a game based on a milsim engine should be completely random. Quite an oversight.

It's like, all you people didn't even enjoy playing Day Z mod yet you are the most vocal about the features of the standalone. Super weird.

[green_machine 179]

Yeah sorry I apparently misread your post and thought that you aren't one of those guys who thinks that guns in a game based on a milsim engine should be completely random. Quite an oversight.

It's like, all you people didn't even enjoy playing Day Z mod yet you are the most vocal about the features of the standalone. Super weird.

Dude, stop being super sarcastic. I have no idea what you're talking about any more. 

[Publik 404]

Wait for Xp updates.

Right now, when it comes to rifles, you point, shoot and hope for the best..... why are people so adamant on changing this?  :P

Please no XP... I don't want this turned into a stat grind fest. "Hold up guys, gotta turn my wrench another 50 times to level up". Was talking with our CEO the other night about helicopters, and he linked me to a video of TOH. If you don't flip the switches in the cockpit in the right order, helicopter doesn't work. If everything was like that the barrier for your character being trained or untrained is if you actually know how to turn on a helicopter and read the gauges and controls. With these weapons, the barrier is whether or not you get lucky on your roll. It has nothing to do with player knowledge or skill.

 

As Gews said, these numbers are hard to screw up. There's intent behind their current numbers, and that intent sucks.

 

Edit: Also, people are so adamant about changing this because it doesn't make any damned sense. This isn't hardcore piss-on-your-face-trololol-you-died gunplay, this is CoD or Battlefield.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Publik

[green_machine 179]

Please no XP... 

Just relaying info received from presentations from Rocket + Dev team. 

[Publik 404]

Just relaying info received from presentations from Rocket + Dev team. 

Got sauce for that info or is it just hearsay?

 

Not going to add a new post, it's somewhat off topic:

I presume it's common knowledge after watching many DayZ Dev presentations (especially through E3). I don't feel like backtracking through dozens of videos i watched months ago to satisfy loose curiosity (no offence) 

Then don't quote it as the truth if you can't be bothered to back it up?

Edited January 6, 2014 by Publik

[piru 13]

Random number generator is silly. Give back realistic weapon accuracy please. :huh:

[green_machine 179]

Got sauce for that info or is it just hearsay?

I presume it's common knowledge after watching many DayZ Dev presentations (especially through E3). I don't feel like backtracking through dozens of videos i watched months ago to satisfy loose curiosity (no offence)  

 

[green_machine 179]

Got sauce for that info or is it just hearsay?

 

Not going to add a new post, it's somewhat off topic:

Then don't quote it as the truth if you can't be bothered to back it up?

Sorry Publikipedia but ~I will quote what I know~

I'm not going to feign ignorance.  

Perhaps you should have paid more attention to the development process.  

Edited January 6, 2014 by DaveZ

[Mao Zedong 48]

Deers don't shoot back...

 

So? We're talking about accuracy and I was 6.. An adult would have no problem.