.357 op

[-Gews- 7443]

I really don't think the muzzle velocity has much effect in this game, not like I am gonna dodge bullets, unless it is in the script to figure out damage via MV (which would make sense). Just curious how you know what the MV is anyway? Or the damage, is that found some place?

For the most part it doesn't, however in this case it is a truly massive difference, 930 vs 360 m/s. It should drop about 1 meter at 150 meters, right now it drops about 1 meter at 350 meters. Second, if it's like ArmA 2 and 3, this will result in damage being way higher than intended.

There's little reason not to change it since most players do not notice anyways, they may as well get correct values.

They can increases or decrease the basic damage as they please, it is not dependent upon muzzle velocity, but since they copy-pasted the .45 ACP information, it was intended to be fired at 260 m/s, so 930/260 = 3.6 times the intended damage (assuming damage drops off with velocity like other ArmA games, which it should).

Details are in the config.bin located in weapons_ammunition.pbo.

[Arty (DayZ) 47]

The 357 is a oneshot to the chest at 10-15 meters, try'd it on a friend.

 

Right. So whats the problem?

[kleinburger 0]

There has been alot of myths about the stoping power of different handgun bullets, some people put all their faith in high speed "Hydrostatic shock" while others think that the caliber and mass of the bullet are the only thing that matters, how do we sort out fact from fiction? What better place to start then the statistics kept by the FBI. Here are a few examples of performance of different bullets. ATI=Average incapacitation time. This is an estamated number based on their formula of shock and blood loss. All of these were among the top performers in their respective calibers.
exp                                  pen shock              one shot stop ATI

Cor-Bon JHP +P 90gr        0.58 9.0in            467psi 70.0% 10.2 sec 380acp 
Cor-Bon JHP 115gr           0.55in 14.2in       626psi 90.6% 8.8 sec 9mm
Federal Classic 125gr       0.65 12.0in          1487psi 95.8% 5.7 sec 357 mag
Remington Golden Saber0.68 12.0in            771psi 93.8% 7.9 sec 40 S&W
Cor-Bon JHP 185 gr            0.7 11.3in               920psi 91.7% 7.2 sec 45 ACP

What does this tell us, well first of all the puney little 380 is far from worthless seeing as 70% of the time one shot was all it took. 
Although the 45 did beat the 9mm in one shot stop ratio the margin was so slim that it is hardly noticable. 
The myth on larger bullets always being more effective is busted here as the 357 magnum (9.1mm) has a higher one shot % and a faster ATI then any of the larger bores.
The choice of bullets seem to have more of an effect on performance then the choice of caliber as each had good and poor performers.
Other things start becoming more noticeable when comparing these charts in detail. The rapid opening shallow penatrating "shock" bullets tend to have a faster ATI but a lower one shot % then slower, heavier, deeper penatrating bullets that seem to be a more consistant performer. The FBI's 115gr silver tips that gave the 9mm such a bad reputation after the Miami shootout had very poor performance stats, they only had 8 inches of penatration and ranked amongst the lowest of any 9mm round.
I hope this will reduce some of the caliber bashing going on around here

 

Link to FBI report:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Edited January 2, 2014 by Kleinburger

[mtclipz 31]

For one it's already an extremely rare find, second that'd probably kill you.

There are extremely common actually.  Usually two in like every firehouse.

[Karl87 17]

Basically power is calculated off of bullet weight and velocity, with energy retention being based off of expansion of the round. People who think the .45 and .357 mag are comparable lack the knowledge to make that claim. An average .45 with a 4 inch barrel has a muzzle energy of 480 ft. Lbs. A .357 magnum 160 grain is 900 ft lbs. The M4 with a .223 muzzle energy is 1700 ft. Lbs. However the fmj has little energy retention due to what is known as ice picking at close range, in and out. For comparison a .44 magnum can get as high as 2000 ft. Lbs. With a 330 grain bullet weight. The mosin nagant 7.62x54R muzzle energy is 2700 ft. Lbs. So the bottom line? The guns are balanced just fine, in my opinion the only guns currently in the game that should not one hit kill at less than 35 meters are the m4 due to low energy retention caused by overpenetration, and the .45 due to lack of muzzle energy, and lack of velocity neccisarry for hydrostatic shock. I have been a firearms owner and enthusiast for 15 years and spent 5 years in the 82nd Airborne division with 2 combat tours I have personally witnessed a .223 hit a target and them still capable of firing back

[kleinburger 0]

Basically power is calculated off of bullet weight and velocity, with energy retention being based off of expansion of the round. People who think the .45 and .357 mag are comparable lack the knowledge to make that claim. An average .45 with a 4 inch barrel has a muzzle energy of 480 ft. Lbs. A .357 magnum 160 grain is 900 ft lbs. The M4 with a .223 muzzle energy is 1700 ft. Lbs. However the fmj has little energy retention due to what is known as ice picking at close range, in and out. For comparison a .44 magnum can get as high as 2000 ft. Lbs. With a 330 grain bullet weight. The mosin nagant 7.62x54R muzzle energy is 2700 ft. Lbs. So the bottom line? The guns are balanced just fine, in my opinion the only guns currently in the game that should not one hit kill at less than 35 meters are the m4 due to low energy retention caused by overpenetration, and the .45 due to lack of muzzle energy, and lack of velocity neccisarry for hydrostatic shock. I have been a firearms owner and enthusiast for 15 years and spent 5 years in the 82nd Airborne division with 2 combat tours I have personally witnessed a .223 hit a target and them still capable of firing back

 

I too am a firearm owner and enthusiast, and what you said here is entirely right. Anyone who disputes this will need to do some deep reading on the subject and not just the physics.

[AJ4211 30]

Bullets are OP.

Edited January 2, 2014 by AJ4211

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

Solid post Karl. That is what I was trying to get at, but think I put out too many numbers.

 

 

Here is a decent online calculator you can use for the same thing.

 

http://www.firearmexpertwitness.com/customguns/calcnrg.html

[Tyrael75 (DayZ) 21]

I was killed by the .45 handgun in 1 shot, hit in the right side ribs from behind by my friend which was an accident, fortunately i managed the run back

[Irenicus (DayZ) 289]

It'll blow your head clean off

[Dchil 829]

It'll blow your head clean off

HEY! That's my line!

[Daemonkid 493]

Actually had a crazy axe murderer eat 2 point blank magnums rounds to the chest. He didn't go down and had gotten a good hit on me. This was at about 5 meteres from me to him. I had killed a few other players 1 shot, from about 20m. So i'm not sure if being that close had anything to do with the damage.

[wgaf 251]

It's not that the 357 is overpowered, its that the 5.56 is underpowered. 

[wgaf 251]

I should add that almost all my experience with the .357 has been head shots at close range. 

[kevinwebb94@gmail.com 12]

haha, the first DayZ standalone "X is OP" thread! Take a picture!

 

Seems that the feature in question is working as intended.

[frosti 2165]

I shot a guy from magnum in the chest from 15 meters and he survived.

[SageZ 13]

And what is this supposed to mean regarding the "Magnum"?

As I said, alot of people throw around the word "realism" regarding the damage of that gun and in general.

Edited January 2, 2014 by SageZ

[quobble 175]

The 357 is a oneshot to the chest at 10-15 meters, try'd it on a friend.

YES!

[Traveler (DayZ) 27]

Have you ev er seen the test shot of a .357 magnum through a block of ballistics gel? The damage is not just where the "canal" of the bullet itself is, but maybe around 1-2 inches around, by tearing of tissue. Even more tissue will be lacerated by the hydrodynamic forces exerted by the bullet, organs like liver, spleen, kidneys, or your aorta are most prone to it. And damage to your aorta means bleeding to death in about <1 minute.

Source: Forensics & being a doctor. That shit is extremely dangerous!!

 

I agree though, I do not want a one-shot-kill wepaon handy all the time. Sucks pretty much. Nerf! (omg it has begun!) But nerf because of balance, because soimetimes, just screw realism.

[ozmann99 5]

For one it's already an extremely rare find, second that'd probably kill you.

Dude, I managed to find 3 in one firehouse, Then for the rest of the time I was in that server, I found 4 more. So am I just extremely lucky?

[TLW 3]

Actually it doesnt have an in and out effect (Per say).  The 5.56 round is a great round for stopping because its not the "in and out" type effect you want when shooting at an enemy, its the spread of force (which would be stopping power).  The 5.56 round is great at this as it fragments upon impact causing several pieces of the bullet to tract through the body.  This you would imagine would cause a lot of damage and it does.  So as stopping force goes, it has does a great job at stopping the enemy.  If you dont believe me go talk to any NATO country and see what they have to say about the 5.56 round.

 

There's no such thing as stopping power. Go watch the youtube video about "stopping power" where a guy gets blasted in the chest with a shotgun in a vest. Most competent gun owners know stopping power is bullshit. 

[Karl87 17]

Your just drinking the coolaid and going to extremes with terminology, stopping=debilitating. I do not mean "knock-back power" which is the term that really does not exist. When I say stopping power, I mean someone is no longer able to respond. Your the type of guy TLW who sits at his computer and searches for people to argue against. I have real life experience I don't need to see a youtube video. I have seen people get shot, with and without body armor in get this REAL LIFE.

[csharp 47]

Great, we have actually useful handguns, not the arma DMG from the mod :D Remember when 1911 and revolver used to do 4500 dmg and they were awesome weapons? No, anybody? Damn.

[teufel937 49]

Actually it doesnt have an in and out effect (Per say).  The 5.56 round is a great round for stopping because its not the "in and out" type effect you want when shooting at an enemy, its the spread of force (which would be stopping power).  The 5.56 round is great at this as it fragments upon impact causing several pieces of the bullet to tract through the body.  This you would imagine would cause a lot of damage and it does.  So as stopping force goes, it has does a great job at stopping the enemy.  If you dont believe me go talk to any NATO country and see what they have to say about the 5.56 round.

I fire 5.56mm NATO weekly during my job in the Uniformed Services, the round is not as powerful as you think or as deadly... any bullet is deadly and dangerous do not get me wrong, but the 5.56mm NATO is not a devastating round by any means.

[king_of_the_beans 92]

For one it's already an extremely rare find, second that'd probably kill you.

I found about 4 of them in a fire station...