How to authentically strike the right balance of PvP in DayZ SA.

[Zeds_Undead_baby 8]

Firstly DayZ needs PvP. PvP is what has given the players that unique emotional connection with the game and their character that other games do not deliver.

 

The game could be solely focused on PvP but it also has the potential to also have elements of survival and crafting that could make it about PvP combined with other features.

 

I've read with interest many useful (and some not so useful) discussions on PvP particularly relating to the amount of KoS current in this version of the alpha. I thought it would be interesting to see the results of a poll with three different approaches to PvP within the game. I haven't seen a poll like this for a while (certainly not since the release of the SA) so hopefully I'm not repeating what has already been done, just collating more concisely the many discussions on the topic.

 

Feel free to add comments to better explain your opinion.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Zeds_Undead_baby

[.VincenT. 45]

Why not both? "direct" and "indirect" features to punish players for killing - altough I think way stronger zombies would do, zombies that take a load of bullets (not just one) before they die but can still be killed with melee weapons easily so noobs are not completely helpless. And ofc. way more zombies, if you have like 30-50 zombies after you when you kill someone/shoot and every one of them needs 5 shots to kill  youll think twice about it since the zombies are a bigger threat then the player.

[Antediluvian 7]

I voted #2, and I assume #3 will happen by the time the final version's out.

[AP_Norris 1018]

I have since my time on the forums skewed very much from #2 to number #3 I realise that being weak in comparison to a bullet and the threat of other players is what makes dayZ so intense.

But it is a zombie game and that needs to be a main focus along with survival and teamwork.

Players need to be realistically fragile, no six foot falls breaking legs but a bullet to the chest will absolutely kill you.

Edited December 31, 2013 by AP_Norris

[Zeds_Undead_baby 8]

I have since my time on the forums skewed very much from #2 to number #3 I realise that being weak in comparison to a bullet and the threat of other players is what makes dayZ so intense.

But it is a zombie game and that needs to be a main focus along with survival and teamwork.

Players need to be realistically fragile, no six foot falls breaking legs but a bullet to the chest will absolutely kill you.

I agree I think the devs should have a go at balancing by adding other features first. Just adding stuff to stop or reduce a certain play style probably won't work in the way they expect. More to do and more danger from the environment/zombies will help balance PvP IMHO.

 

PvP should be in the game but it should be geared up groups against other geared up groups or individuals fighting over resources rather than 'for fun'.

[Propulsion_Joe 97]

Any direct changes to deter pvp will just turn the game into loot farm simulator 2014 and so on.

[frosti 2165]

In DayZ mod when I played with custom humanity system (non exploitable) and bandit/survivor/hero skins, it worked quite well in reducing KoS, becouse you had high chance that fellow survivor/hero skin guy will not shoot at you.

 

Right now in standalone I simply do not want to take a risk and not KoS random people when I bump into them.

[Khad (DayZ) 293]

Voted for the 3rd one.

DayZ is NOT ArmaII: Wasteland. But it became it. So I hope, this will change with the improvement of the SA, or I will go back to Arma III - pvp ;)

Edited December 31, 2013 by Khad

[Bakercompany86 347]

Please God no morality or sanity system. More zombies will be added, not to mention roaming hordes. Couple that with zombie AI tweaks and that's all the pvp balancing you need. Just more incentive to be careful when shooting around cities.

PvP in it's current standing isn't even a problem. People who are constantly kos'd are spending too much time around the coast, especially Balota trying to get the "easy guns".

So far my past four encounters with players inland have been shakey, but nobody died or got robbed. Exact opposite actually. We all offered assistance and supplies to one another. It was the forced roleplaying that I believe makes DayZ truly unique.

The murderers roam the coast. I figured this was well known now. Tired of death? Head north.

Once the zombies are fully implemented you'll have your balance.

In the mean time don't put any lame morality systems in place that prevent players from playing the way they want to.

[jaginun 87]

The 2nd option is going against what the game is all about, a natural environment with no punishment for players playstyle. 3rd Option would probably be the best. We already have quite a bit of medicine that requires teamwork, including the only way to regain blood reliably, but I think that the amount of zombies is fine, as long as they bring in zombie respawns, but they probably do need to up the damage of zombie hits.

 

Of course, the zombies in the DayZ mod were often imbalanced because of patches which meant that looting towns was a major problem, but it didn't lead to any dramatic effect on the PvP levels. If anything, the difficulty of getting loot meant that even more people killed other players, for the sole reason of obtaining the even harder to get equipment.

 

TL:DR, 3rd option, but will probably not produce desired effect. Better to change player attitude than introduce artificial difficulty.

[alphax 99]

DayZ wasn't about PvP in the first place, its about surviving and PvP is a part of surviving/it interferees with it.

In the first days of the mod for example player helped each other and scavenged for stuff, but with more publicity through youtubers, who gave new players the wrong intention about the game, also more and more "Gamer" from other genres walked over. And since they weren't that good at looking for loot to survive for themselves they just did what they were good at, they started shooting, KoS'ing.

And out of this, came the pure Banditing for the fever of killing. Killing became something they didn't do to survive, they did it because they had fun doing it. They got the feeling as if they have more power or force over somebody else. The power to "end a life". So they continued with it and spread it in videos like "Bambi-Killing Spree in Elektro -by xXDayZBanditMasterXxLP" (get the kiddie reference here?) And those videos even gave more new player a wrong tention about DayZ, they spread the message that only if you kill somebody else you are a  good player.

But all they really did, was killing DayZ, people got bored of getting killed in the spawn towns, some people stopped playing because of it, some others became one of those "Bad-People" themselves (seems stupid hah?).

And as the people got smarter they tried to get around the spawn cities and just walk for their life, so the spawn cities got boring for those bandits and so the "DayZ PvP 120 Vehicles - Starter Gear - Custm Loadout" Servers got born. And as soon as some poeple have seen that they can make some profit by giving people custom starter gear at spawning and stuff, more and more of those servers came up. At peak times it was hard to find a server with no custom stuff and it still is. The soul of Vanilla DayZ-Mod got killed by its own community.

 

Note please that by bandits I mean those stupid players who just kill for the joy of it, i know there are "good" bandits too, who don't KoS. God damned banditing isn't just about killing. Shooting someone in the back is easy as shit. But robbing somebody, or secretly following them and locking them down to rob them takes much more patience.

The DayZ SA gives us the opportunity to lock people down, by handcuffing them atm. but there sure will be much, much more possibilitys in the future. It adds a variety, the variety of banditing.

 

In the end i just can say that people who KoS  on purpose are pussies. Shooting somebody in the back doesn't take as much courage as talking and approaching somebody. Even if you can kill somebody easily, just don't do it. As long as the other person isn't an enemy for you, you have no cause to be an enemy for him. KoS-ing is just shy.

 

"To test the character of a man, give him the power over something or somebody else and see what they do."

 

PvP became a threat, rather than an "feature". The only one who can balance the PvP factor of this game is the community itself. They changed the PvP factor before and they can do it one more time back at a good state. But at the moment the community is just killing off their own game.

 

I think, DayZ is about surviving and PvP is a part of it, however it should be more like "you have to defend yourself"-PvP rather than "i just want to kill those people, lol"-PvP as it is for the most people now.

[Zeds_Undead_baby 8]

TL:DR, 3rd option, but will probably not produce desired effect. Better to change player attitude than introduce artificial difficulty.

 

I kinda agree with your point with respect to adding more zombies. Personally I think adding more to do other than player killing on the beach will help in changing attitudes though.

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

I picked the last one. Not because I want/need it to effect pvp at all, but I just like that stuff. More zombies are 100% coming, already been said. These are just place holders. Meds do require teamwork and is a great system that will only improve with more biological threats that are also 100% coming (remember all water is clean right now). Then hopefully they nail this crafting system and make a bunch of things craft-able and some what difficult to get all the parts for (at least for larger projects).

[IcyBlade 48]

Totally agree with #3

As I have said before:

 

"In human history we have proven we are selfish and aggressive.

We have however also seen that when faced against a common enemy people will band together to overcome the more powerful opposition, then they will either continue fighting each other or perhaps form meaningful alliances.

 

This can be used, by making zombies far more numerous, deadly and aggressive so that they become this common enemy. Additionally zombie hord mentality may also encourage player grouping, as in war, mirroring oppositions behavior is common, generally as you don't want them to have the advantage.

 

Can't stop people fighting but you can persuade them to at least not fight each other as much."

 

Doesn't remove PVP but provides motivation for an alternative so that you at least have a choice.

Edited December 31, 2013 by IcyBlade

[Zeds_Undead_baby 8]

So far my past four encounters with players inland have been shakey, but nobody died or got robbed. Exact opposite actually. We all offered assistance and supplies to one another. It was the forced roleplaying that I believe makes DayZ truly unique.

I've also had not too bad an experience so far. Got attacked by a dude with a bat whilst looting a house on the coast. He struck first by stealth but my axe ended up in his head! :-)

 

After that I headed north and met a couple of people on the way one of which even helped me out with a blood bag to correct the damage caused by the guy with the bat.

 

Playing on a pretty full server but not really seeing anyone from the middle of the map and up.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

This idea that making the game more difficult is going to somehow magically make people more friendly is so prevalent. It's like mass hysteria. Where did it come from and why do people believe it for a minute?

 

More zombies are a great idea, as are more teamwork-based activities like shelter-building, storage and vehicle maintenance. The game, in general, should be more challenging and involve more long-term, team-based goals.

 

But why do people believe for a second this is suddenly going to mean I'm going to want to buddy up with random jagoffs and try and get things done?

 

People are going to continue to do what they have always done in multiplayer games - find friends outside the game and join as a group. More zombies? My existing group will take care of them. More teamwork-based activities? I'll do them with my group. We're still going to indiscriminately shoot every other person in their stupid ugly faces because who needs them? Why take the risk? If Zombies are more dangerous, that means strangers are more dangerous. If an inopportune gunshot or someone standing when they should crouch means I might die, the last thing I'm going to want to do is surround myself with a bunch of random-ass strangers I can't trust to hold their own dicks straight while they piss.

 

Most importantly, why cooperate with someone to accomplish a long-term task if your relationship is, by it's very nature, short term? Why would I work all day to build a vehicle or shelter with someone if I'm probably never going to see them again?

 

So, sure, if you want me to sign up for #3 go ahead and put my name down because those are all great features.

 

But if you're fooling yourself into thinking that once those features go in DayZ is going to turn into a wonderland of high-fives, hookah parties and "Friendly dudes!" then I'm afraid you've got another thing coming entirely. You are going to get shot just as often after these features go in as you were before, if not more often. 

Edited December 31, 2013 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Mumaz 0]

I've also had not too bad an experience so far. Got attacked by a dude with a bat whilst looting a house on the coast. He struck first by stealth but my axe ended up in his head! :-)

After that I headed north and met a couple of people on the way one of which even helped me out with a blood bag to correct the damage caused by the guy with the bat.

Playing on a pretty full server but not really seeing anyone from the middle of the map and up.

You can see how people complain about kos its they own fault. I spent long time playing on full servers going up north and back again to balota to only have encounters when arriving at balota.

looks like people just want the easy stuff without having to fight for it.

As for the topic poll i really enjoyed playing that dayz origins mod... People would really teamup to clear sector b and build bases/trade blueprints and etc... Wish the SA could implement some stuff like that. Maybe the nwairport could have like 500 zeds and force a group effort to successfully loot some places that has best rewards :) thats the think i wish the most of the game. Along with anti combat log and server hoping.

[Zeds_Undead_baby 8]

But if you're fooling yourself into thinking that once those features go in DayZ is going to turn into a wonderland of high-fives, hookah parties and "Friendly dudes!" then I'm afraid you've got another thing coming entirely. You are going to get shot just as often after these features go in as you were before, if not more often. 

 

I hope this isn't what it sounded like the poll was suggesting. IMHO DayZ should be a tough brutal game where getting player killed is very likely. It is this very fact that causes the tension in the game that sets it apart from others. I just feel that player killing should be for a authentic reason such as for resources, 'he is in my way' or 'I am concerned he will harm me'. I don't think it is authentic that the majority of people would murder people for a laugh. Some people would of course but this would be a small minority.

 

From this point of view I agree that adding more, or more dangerous, Zeds will not likely reduce PvP and turn everyone into the Care-Bear appreciation society. But this isn't what the game needs anyway. It's my view that additional features that provide more to do will reduce the 'player killing for a laugh' mentality. It sounds like this is the approach the devs are taking so it will be interesting to see how to alters the game play. I think the psychology and sociology behind the way people play this game is really interesting. :-)

[Isaaq 72]

I voted indirect.

 

I think that some kind of sanity system would be very nice (and not just affected by killing) but it couldn't have huge effects... There are times when you actually have to kill people.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Isaaq

[xX_fr0st-w0lf_Xx (DayZ) 343]

#2 will ruin dayz

#3 wont change pvp at all. 

[Ken Bean 175]

The 2nd option is going against what the game is all about, a natural environment with no punishment for players playstyle.

Theres no natural environment with no punishment for your lifestile. ;-)

[tacticalbanana 38]

Zombies are pretty easy to kill right now, 1 bullet from any gun or a swing of the axe brings one down

[Daemonkid 493]

I just want a better health system. I want to get shot, and not die instantly. I want to struggle, fight for my life through the wounds, only to die in vain 10 mins later. 

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Without a bit of both #2 and #3, DayZ is never going to be much more than just a shooter on a big map.

[libertine 351]

Oh, fucking teamwork.......yawn...

 

#2 will ruin dayz

#3 wont change pvp at all. 

 

#2 IS DAYZ!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you not know there was a humanity system in DayZ? With bandit skins? Which was a negative effect for them since i'd KOS them ASAP as a survivor and im sure almost everyone else did too.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Thane