DayZ Sound Design Test - Part 3 Final Added

[maliceubx 73]

Every single one of these sounds should be included in the SA. Dean with would unwise to ignore this.

[Twixxer 159]

Bohemia, please hire this guy!

[WARPIG_ 18]

I personally disagree with some sounds (though I'm no sound designer =P), but overall this is a great job you done there man! Really nice, makes us remember that there's a lot more coming to DayZ SA.

[nickxnickx 10]

:thumbsup:

[Igglas Cage 173]

Wow. I'm speechless. Awesome work sir!

[combatcomm1 234]

Is there anyway to draw Rockets attention to this? I cant even begin to tell you how important sound is to me. I think the single most important thing for me personally. Especially those awesome physical interaction things and doors. I feel like if they don't see this they wont even bother or think to implement physical interaction sounds,

 

Anyone know i good way to get this to the devs attention? 

[Vagnus 8]

Send them a PM

Good job with that sounds!

[jaywils91 1]

Amazing

[JulioRey 11]

Is there anyway to draw Rockets attention to this? I cant even begin to tell you how important sound is to me. I think the single most important thing for me personally. Especially those awesome physical interaction things and doors. I feel like if they don't see this they wont even bother or think to implement physical interaction sounds,

 

Anyone know i good way to get this to the devs attention? 

 

Sent him a twitter! I dont have one otherwise I would do it... I belive Rocket would really enjoy the videos, and hopefull have some talk with the the op.

[gamer222 86]

I just don't like your rain sounds, see how rain sounds are in rainbow six rogue spear from 1999 I mean that one is still one of the most realistic sounds I wish it's in dayz...

[libertine 351]

I always seem to hate gun sounds in stock games. Mods in many games made a big difference. Stalker mods had some great gun sounds. Love that L85A1 sound.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZFY4I8Vcss

Edited January 5, 2014 by Thane

[combatcomm1 234]

Sent him a twitter! I dont have one otherwise I would do it... I belive Rocket would really enjoy the videos, and hopefull have some talk with the the op.

 

Yah, I dont have one either, or reddit...... :(

[martink8190@gmail.com 149]

 

I always seem to hate gun sounds in stock games. Mods in many games made a big difference. Stalker mods had some great gun sounds. Love that L85A1 sound.

 

 

To be honest I didn't like the sounds in that video all that much, they were rather artificial 

 

 

Project reality sounds ( it's an outstanding mod as well, Can't recommend it enough for anyone interested )

 

 

 

 

 

Also, as much as sounds are important for me as well, lets have bit of patience and give a chance to our new sound engineer  B)

Edited January 5, 2014 by Colonel-Wicked

[dmitriikeler 13]

It is very, very good. Thumbs up.

[SiSi 6]

tonns of beans! thank u man, great work!

[Gdaddy22 299]

This is perfect

[Ansssi 184]

I'd enjoy the SA way more, even in its current phase, if the sound design was given a little more attention.

[Deadly Walker 19]

Love the sounds that you have gone for in this.

 

The only thing i would say is the birds while out and out the tweets are too often and not varied enough and there shouldn't be any seagull sounds on the coast as the birds are not actually in the game other than that great ideas :D

[dgeesio 1034]

very nice work needs to be added id say most of the sound work is better.

[SmashT 10907]

Rocket has commented quite a bit on it.... 

-------------------------------------------------

 

The key thing to remember here, is that this is sounds placed over top of recorded video. It is very, very, VERY difficult to generate effective sounds real-time under complex conditions. It is the same as taking a screenshot and adjusting it with photoshop and saying "look how awesome this is!". It's entirely and completely different to generate it real-time. I'm not saying it's not possible to get something similar, and producing this kind of video reference can be useful for giving a benchmark for prototypes - but really it doesn't serve any practical purpose in actually developing. The video demonstrates the person can overlay sounds onto recorded video, but that's of little practical use in actually generating in-game audio. This is why it is quite hard to find good video game sound people - skills producing sounds for movie/tv are not entirely transferable to video games.It still shows that with good sound atmosphere/ambiance can be taken to an entirely new level

Q: it still shows that with good sound atmosphere/ambiance can be taken to an entirely new level

Honestly that's strikes me as a bit naive. Replace the backdrop video of the gameplay footage with real-world video footage - and you have exactly what they do in movies. Much of the sound is created and dubbed over afterwards, even the speech itself. So in terms of prototype/demonstration there isn't really anything practical that can be taken away. Someone described in a comment above the various issues that stand in the way of such implementation, they all related to the demarkation. When and where does such a thing occur, when does a certain sound happen, what happens before or after that point, how do transitional situations work, how do sounds get mixed, how do unexpected event sounds get handled (can push volume very high resulting in clipping etc...). Like I said, it's a little bizzare to me to see such reaction simply because the background of the video is from a videogame, when the process is exactly what is done for movies, tv shows, trailers, etc... The hard part is doing this real-time by having the computer figure it all out without a human making the decisions.

 

Q: Either Rocket see's it as something not worth investing time in at the moment or it is completely impossible to implement into the "arma 2.5" engine and wants to quell any hopes of it ever getting there.

It's neither. I could simply have said nothing, or I could have said it's not going to happen. What I'm trying to do is to explain the difference between movies and video games, in this case in sound development. This is area that is very poorly understood, even within the video games industry itself, which is why sound often sucks so bad in games. It is because people assume that making sounds for a game is the same/similar to the process for this video... thus... if someone can do it relatively easy then it should be reasonably straightforward for a video game. Hence studio's hire the same kind of people, and things don't work out. The process is entirely different and, generally, I've found movie sound people almost entirely unsuitable for video game sound work. The process is very different and generating the sounds themselves is often the easiest part of the whole process. You require a very skilled team with cross discipline skills in programming, design, and audio creation. I don't know what the result will be because we don't have a high-level functioning team capable of what I expect in that regard yet. It is something that takes time, learning, and a careful selection of people.

In the video, a human uses subjective interpretation to decide at what time to mix in specific samples, at a particular volume mix, with particular filters. Computers cannot do this, they require very precise objective instructions that specify exactly what to do. They also need to be told of all and every side cases.

The computer cannot "see" the scene, it must be told everything.

Q: This video illustrates the quality of sound we would like to see.

Sure, but from my perspective it's the same any movie ever made or any tv show. I am trying to point out that a little knowledge can be very dangerous, and what happens here is the same as someone posting a video scene from Avatar and saying "how awesome does that sound!. You don't have to look far at all to see good benchmarks. Look at any movie. There is no difference between any movie any made and the process of painting audio over a video - it is the same process.

 

Q: What is that other games in this genre do that make sound a success that DayZ doesn't do?

There are many reasons, I will pick a couple of the most straightforward:

• RV engine was a niche product, which sound was not as important a focus as other areas - the engine developed in other ways
• The environment is huge. This creates issues of floating point precision which impacts many areas of the game, including sound.
• Sound relies heavily on all other areas of the game, art and design in particular. Small changes in these areas can invalidate massive areas of sound and require extensive rework. Therefore, it makes sense to do these changes once design and art are locked down.

Q: So what's the fallout from this then? We just lower our expectations and move on? What is the bar you've set for yourselves?

I think the "fallout" should be that sound is generally done last in video game development (and in movies and tv), and that there is good reason for that which I have outlined before. There is no "bar" set for sound because we don't have a fully functioning sound team yet, as this is incredibly specialized and takes a great deal of time, effort, and a lot of learning (note: not money). Do we want to revmap the sound? yes! But so much else is being revamped that we would then be so focused on continually updating the sounds forever and a day and never actually do anything new (just ask the ArmA3 or ArmA2 dev teams how frustrating this can be and how difficult it becomes to do new things in that environment). We have a new audio designer, who is the process of learning how the engine works. We will hire additional programmers, and one of our programming team will eventually be chosen to work as part of the audio team. THEY will set the parameters of their work, based on their collective skill of the team and priorities defined by the project itself (with user feedback taken into account).It's a great video, and it's a good demonstration of foley work. But it's of no practical use in developing game audio itself - and it's a commonly made mistake even within people inside the video game industry.

Q: Many of the improvements in the video are as simple as replacing the sound file, or reducing it's volume.

For starters, nobody has been devoted to audio. We just hired a sound designer and he is currently learning. You don't give people learning access to the source and then say "away you go!", and you certainly don't go off half cocked and just pump out a shitload of new sound files. I've said it many times before; we don't want to be redoing sounds all the time. Sounds are one of the last things that should be done, because we are constantly changing the code, design, art, and animations that they are based on. You can see this with the new sounds we DID make being completely out of sync with the new animations. Many of the "simple" sound triggers you speak of, are not simple and the method that the engine plays ambient sounds is something we are actively changing because the way the engine does it does not support what we need to do to achieve a leap in ambient sounds. So we don't want to focus the new guy on generating a bunch of sounds, when the very way of using those sounds is changing.

I'm really going round in circles on the sound issue all the time, and it can be summed up as follows: you do sound last

 

Q: Could you at the very least REMOVE some sounds that are currently there that really detract from the game experience?

The estimated time is quite significant to fix these. Currently, the only person who can do that is probably me. I am instead using that time preparing the entire project for the upcoming year(s). Removing sounds is not as trivial as you might think. some of them are engine dependent, therefore they require something or you can get very odd results, crashes and such. In game development, you don't fuck around with stuff, remove things, or really do anything with a stable (I use that term loosely) build. The actions must be deliberate, considered, planned, tested. Otherwise at best you can create instability and big problems, at worst you can cause an issue that isn't picked up immediately and causes massive downstream problems that can take vast amounts of resources to identify and fix. Sound is one of those things that 9/10 times might be easy and straightforward, that that 1/10 can bring everything to a screeching halt. Anyone really concerned about the sounds, is going to be vastly disappointed with the rest of the product anyway. The purpose is not to please those people (yet), our purpose here is to make a good game - that requires deliberate steps not just removing bits and pieces.

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1uz8e4/this_is_what_we_should_expect_from_sounds_in_the/

Edited January 12, 2014 by SmashT

[spiry3 0]

Beautiful!

[libertine 351]

To be honest I didn't like the sounds in that video all that much, they were rather artificial 

 

 

Project reality sounds ( it's an outstanding mod as well, Can't recommend it enough for anyone interested )

 

 

 

 

 

Also, as much as sounds are important for me as well, lets have bit of patience and give a chance to our new sound engineer  B)

Excellent sounds, i agree and i hope they DayZ team watches that as much as the other video. I like the way they have a little sound for just about everything too, like planting the bipod on the ground.  I hope the DayZ team sees the value of adding in that type of limited scope view as well, especially for any high powered sniper rifles.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Thane

[beelzebossi@hotmail.com 28]

Developing this game and better sound should be no problem from financing point, game is huge success even for alpha. But when game goes big, people are expecting professionalism and lots of great things from the game. I don't mind how long it takes to develop or design game, but i expect quality product when its ready.

 

Can't really wait when DayZ and Star Citizen are complete, because these could be best games for a long time.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Bezzi

[nickholder85@gmail.com 19]

Saw these a week or so ago on Reddit and was really impressed, audio sounds are so much better and adds much more depth to the game (like collision noises etc..). Really good work mate :)

[atmaca (DayZ) 48]

Ok guys I really don't understand why this is so hard. I agree to Rocket to some extend and appreciate his effort to justify bohemia's lazyness. But mostly it's bullshit.

 

"I don't know what the result will be because we don't have a high-level functioning team capable of what I expect in that regard yet. It is something that takes time, learning, and a careful selection of people."

 

You have the budget and you have 2 years time now. God damn what else do you require? Bohemia can easly hire a sound developement team and everything could be done in couple months. REPLACING current sounds does not require any engine tweaks. Just replace the fucking files?!?

 

You can see this with the new sounds we DID make being completely out of sync with the new animations. Many of the "simple" sound triggers you speak of, are not simple and the method that the engine plays ambient sounds is something we are actively changing because the way the engine does it does not support what we need to do to achieve a leap in ambient sounds.

 

This is barely an answer. Currently there's no changing ambient sound in DayZ, what the fuck is he talking about? We're talking about REPLACING a single sound file and he says "well it's not easy to switch between sounds in game, engine sucks blah blah" REALLY?

 

Currently, when player character touches to a bush it already makes sounds. What's so hard about applying SAME thing to trash cans, fences etc.?

 

I totally understand external and internal sound design needs some hard work. But replacing dirt steps or gun sounds are easy as hell. What's is so hard and require code expertise about putting an INVENTORY OPENING SOUND or DOOR SOUNDS? What the FUCK Rocket?

 

I really believe Rocket is being the good guy and does everytging he can to improve the game. However, he has to defend Bohemia since he's an employee now. Don't lie to us dude, just tell the truth that Bohemia will never care about making a good game.