Some thoughts about melee combat

[overdosed (DayZ) 77]

   Ive been thinking that a good way to handle melee would be to go with a system similar to that of games like the mount and blade series. For whoever is not acquainted with the way combat works in mount and blade, its basically something like this - you move your mouse up, down, left and right and while doing that hold LMB to get the stance for different attacks - swings from left to right, right to left, overhead swings and thirsting attacks and after that you release your lmb to execute. Same thing goes for blocking - you block and then using mouse movement you can block hits incoming from differrent directions(being able to block in dayz would be nice, though not really that necessary of a function).

 

   The main idea is to easily be able to execute different attacks depending on the scenario and the weapon that you have(overhead attacks in cqb, and left and right swings depending on where your target is) without cluttering the controls even more. And it doesnt really sound like something that would be impossible or even hard to do. Any thoughts?

Edited December 28, 2013 by overdosed

[Bakercompany86 347]

So you mean like a Skyrim combat system?

 

 

I'll honestly take any improvement to melee in this game, as it's currently horrible.  I know it's not their intention to leave things this way, but man is it rough now.

 

I do like that form of combat.  The click and drag to execute your desired strike.  This makes it easier to program in the different weights and physics for different weapons.  A fire axe is large and heavy, you wouldn't be able to swing the thing around rapidly like a fencing sword.

 

At the same time, why the hell does a crowbar take so much effort to kill a zombie?  I should be able to execute an overhead smash that crushes their skull almost instantly, at least stagger them.

 

Blocking should also be an option, or at least some sort of deflection.  I might not be a skilled martial artist, but if someone swings an axe at me and i'm holding a large pipe wrench I'm sure as hell going to move that pipe wrench to try and absorb the blow instead of my face.

[overdosed (DayZ) 77]

So you mean like a Skyrim combat system?

 

 

I'll honestly take any improvement to melee in this game, as it's currently horrible.  I know it's not their intention to leave things this way, but man is it rough now.

 

I do like that form of combat.  The click and drag to execute your desired strike.  This makes it easier to program in the different weights and physics for different weapons.  A fire axe is large and heavy, you wouldn't be able to swing the thing around rapidly like a fencing sword.

 

At the same time, why the hell does a crowbar take so much effort to kill a zombie?  I should be able to execute an overhead smash that crushes their skull almost instantly, at least stagger them.

 

Blocking should also be an option, or at least some sort of deflection.  I might not be a skilled martial artist, but if someone swings an axe at me and i'm holding a large pipe wrench I'm sure as hell going to move that pipe wrench to try and absorb the blow instead of my face.

 

Thats nothing like what combat in Skyrim is lol. What we have now is more akin to what combat in Skyrim is, except there are no heavy attacks and there is only 1 animation xD

Edited December 28, 2013 by overdosed

[Bakercompany86 347]

Thats nothing like what combat in Skyrim is lol. What we have now is more akin to what combat in Skyrim is, except there are no heavy attacks and there is only 1 animation xD

 

I might be thinking of Daggerfall.  It's been a while.

 

Basically, you hold down LMB and the direction you move the mouse is the direction and type of swing.  There were no power attacks back then, so you couldn't hold the button for a smash attack or anything.  Right clicking blocked.  That's what I was referencing.

 

Could have sworn it was similar in Skyrim still.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

I would prefer a chivalry style movement combo system, pushing w + mouse click does a jab, a or d + mouse does an appropriate side swing, s + mouse does an overhand attack, that sort of thing. The problem with dynamically following the mouse movement like you are suggesting is that the RV engine is not particularly good at making up animations on the fly, or smoothing out different animations together. It's easier to have a few set moves to keep things relatively simple.

Edited December 28, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[overdosed (DayZ) 77]

I would prefer a chivalry style movement combo system, pushing w + mouse click does a jab, a or d + mouse does an appropriate side swing, s + mouse does an overhand attack, that sort of thing.

 

Attacking in this way is much harder, for me atleast and remember that you have separate keybinds for all those in chivalry(correct me if im wrong but i havent played the game in ages), and no additional keybinds is one of the big bonuses of the m&b combat system.

Edited December 28, 2013 by overdosed

[badman85@gmail.com 14]

im on it thread will be up in a sec . like to know what you guys think 

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Personally I find it much easier and it has been used in many games and mods (Like Pirates, Vikings, and Knights) with good success. It's actually easier for the engine to handle different keybinds than to handle mouse movement, like I said. You also have to consider desync in this game in particular. It's very likely going to be impossible in practice because the server is going to have to detect your quick, frantic mouse movements and then try and translate those to some kind of move. As stated above, this engine in particular is not suited to doing animations in the way you are describing. It would be horribly glitchy.

Edited December 28, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[Zarniwoop 1193]

I thought there was blocking in the game already. Using space to bring up the weapon in front of one's face. Haven't tried it myself but I read someone having killed a bunch of dudes using the block while the others didn't know what it was.

Anyway IMO a more complex melee system is not particularly necessary. If we've got a block and two kinds of attack (i.e standard and lunge) is fine for me. The weight of the weapons also considered. 

Edited December 28, 2013 by Zarniwoop

[overdosed (DayZ) 77]

Personally I find it much easier and it has been used in many games and mods (Like Pirates, Vikings, and Knights) with good success. It's actually easier for the engine to handle different keybinds than to handle mouse movement, like I said. You also have to consider desync in this game in particular. It's very likely going to be impossible in practice because the server is going to have to detect your quick, frantic mouse movements and then try and translate those to some kind of move. As stated above, this engine in particular is not suited to doing animations in the way you are describing. It would be horribly glitchy.

 

Again more keybinds is a bad thing. And, im sorry but the only thing the server would have to detect is wich way did you aim your mouse up, down, left or right. In this system you cant just swipe wherever you wish. This just allows you execute 4 different attacks with your weapon by just moving your mouse in a direction after youve primed your weapon to swing. You dont need more animations for this, than for what you are proposing, and if the server is having problems detecting frantic mouse movement im PRETTY sure aiming your gun would be  a big problem. Yeah you prefer another way of handling melee but except that you like the other system better, your arguments are pretty much invalid.

 

Oh and maybe I didnt choose the best wording, but you dont actually swipe to execute the attack, you move your mouse in the direction to just get the stance for that attack and then you release LMB to execute.

Edited December 28, 2013 by overdosed

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Again more keybinds is a bad thing. And, im sorry but the only thing the server would have to detect is wich way did you aim your mouse up, down, left or right. In this system you cant just swipe wherever you wish. This just allows you execute 4 different attacks with your weapon by just moving your mouse in a direction after youve primed your weapon to swing. You dont need more animations for this, than for what you are proposing, and if the server is having problems detecting frantic mouse movement im PRETTY sure aiming your gun would be  a big problem. Yeah you prefer another way of handling melee but except that you like the other system better, your arguments are pretty much invalid.

Aiming your gun at times is problematic. Either way, it comes down to personal preference more than anything else. What else is mouse down, mouse right, mouse left, than a fancy keybind? If you are binding those mouse movements to certain attacks, there's no reason why a movement key and mouse click combo wouldn't also work. It sounded to me like you wanted some kind of dynamic physics animation that would track your analogue movements, like the wii or something, which isn't really possible with this engine. So either way, you'd have to use set animations and a keybind.

Edited December 28, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[overdosed (DayZ) 77]

Aiming your gun at times is problematic. Either way, it comes down to personal preference more than anything else. What else is mouse down, mouse right, mouse left, than a fancy keybind?

 

True, but sadly you cant really bind those things in the controls, and the mouse movement thing is a whole new system of its own to create so having both options sounds like a long shot. Best case scenario we can get both and be able to switch between them in the options, but if i have to choose one im still backing to mouse movement system.