The topic of realism and player killing

[fml 29]

There are many posts about realism on this forum.

Is "The Walking Dead" not realistic?

Is "28 Days/Months Later" not realistic?

Is "The Shaun of the Dead" not realistic?

Is "The Road" not realistic?

They band together, gather supplies, work together, etc. If that is realistic then why are they not shooting eachother on site, as in dayz? Imagine if Rick and Lori met a person that only had tylenol and a band aid. Do you think they would shoot them?

I imagine co-operation being much more relative in dayz. In a zombie apocylypse, "What would you do?"

My belief is that people just dont play the way they would navigate a zombie apocalypse in real life, and just utilize the game as a pvp fps zombie game, since there are no repercussions for killing. What are your thoughts? Why do you think there is such a big gap in what media portrays, and what people project in this game?

[Jacorvin 0]

Those shows are often about 1 group of people or 1 person, and in 3/4 of your examples (not sure about Shaun of the Dead) they come across people who try to kill them.

[Champloo (DayZ) 5]

In all the examples you provided it wasn't a complete apocalpyse. Law and order still existed to some degree and morality was still a factor. In DayZ we have no sense of that because it is long gone. Our world is completely post-apocalyptic and we have no hopes of recouping any sort of society. Our only hope is to band in small groups that we know we can trust without a doubt and to kill everyone else before they kill us.

There's a distinct difference between DayZ's lore and the lore of your examples. You need to examine actual apocalpyse settings and realize that they're very different from zombie "outbreak" settings. You'll notice when you read the actual comics of Dawn of the Dead that many groups are KoS or bandits that only trust their interior group members and see how important trust really is and how easily it's broken as well as the decisions the characters make as the series progresses. That's the closest thing we have to DayZ, but it's not the same even still

[maddogx 10]

In all the examples you provided it wasn't a complete apocalpyse. Law and order still existed to some degree and morality was still a factor.

Actually, this is not the case in The Road. Proper apocalypse there.

And funilly enough, that film is a perfect example of the "trust no one" mentality we are experiencing in DayZ.

[fml 29]

I agree, they do come across people that attempt to kill them, but they aren't being killed 99% of the time. When they see people, they actually travel towards them in order to make human contact. Law and order didnt exist in Walking Dead. I believe the scene with the group in the old people home, and the 2 bandits in the bar displayed that well. If you have seen the lastest episode (still season 2) Then you would see that even when meeting a random stanger, they dont just start killing the other person. Yes, attacks happen, but they arent as persistent as dayz.

[funionz 7]

Ever watch The Walking Dead at all? Remember last season where the main character shot the 2 guys in the bar because they wanted to know where their camp & supplies were?

Shaun of the Dead? Really? A brit zombie comedy? Really?

28 Days/Months Later? Did you not watch the second half of the movie?

Terrible comparisons.

[Jacorvin 0]

There is also a very distinguishing aspect you are forgetting: viewers.

In Hollywood they need to make you feel something for the character/characters, so you can not kill of the main characters (most of the time). In a video game they need to appeal to what people enjoy, and a great amount of people play multiplayer games to establish dominance over another player.

[Powermolch 3]

Funny you mentioned the road. It has exactly the same feeling as DayZ.

Trust No One!

Shoot on Sight or Hide and run if you can!

Steal if you can and survive yourself.

Sometimes trust somebody, give him something to eat but get the fuck away then.

Or as Fallen Earth states: Life is cheap, Bullets are expensive.

[funionz 7]

And before you say it's not how I would behave, I have a wife & child, I would damn straight light up anyone who came within 50 feet of my domicile given the right scenario

[jimieus 3]

FFS - Humans kill each other. End of story.

[maddogx 10]

Funny you mentioned the road. It has exactly the same feeling as DayZ.

Trust No One!

Shoot on Sight!

Steal if you can and survive yourself.

Sometimes trust somebody' date=' give him something to eat but get the fuck away then.

[/quote']

^^ Precisely this.

In The Road almost everyone the protagonists see (except the old guy) either wants to kill them or is scared of being killed by them. Nobody trusts anyone unless they have nothing to lose - like the old guy.

[Kageru 18]

It's because there's no real structure for co-operation (I have a suggestion for it here) and any such groupings are intrinsically non persistent and offer little benefit (plus it takes ages to meet up) plus there's no concept of reputation when the population is so fluid.

On the the other hand the open-world FFA full-loot PvP people are incredibly happy to find a game that lets them play the way they like (killing poorly equipped noobs) and pretty much don't care what the justification is as long as it supports the gameplay style they want.

[Champloo (DayZ) 5]

Honestly, I've never heard of the road or cared to look into it. To rephrase, in MOST of the examples you provided the story was set in an outbreak style situation where people had somewhat recent memory of society. In DayZ our society has long been gone, years, decades, and more have passed since society existed. We know nothing of society, only the faculties for its function that we have adapted for our survival against the world, and each other.

To clear up things, in the walking dead it has only been months since society broke down. I don't know which one you're examining, but the comic series goes much farther than the tv series goes with their time. As you see the series progress you see more and more descent into the apocalypse, but the difference there is that they still attempt to maintain society. Society requires law and order, mutual trust and goodwill to function properly.

In summation, the longer into the apocalpyse the more morality degrades and memories of society disappear. Our memories in the DayZ universe are long gone, and our sense of humanity as diminished as the buildings we raid daily for the only keepsake of a society ruined.

[Jacorvin 0]

Honestly' date=' I've never heard of the road or cared to look into it. To rephrase, in MOST of the examples you provided the story was set in an outbreak style situation where people had somewhat recent memory of society. In DayZ our society has long been gone, years, decades, and more have passed since society existed. We know nothing of society, only the faculties for its function that we have adapted for our survival against the world, and each other.

To clear up things, in the walking dead it has only been months since society broke down. I don't know which one you're examining, but the comic series goes much farther than the tv series goes with their time. As you see the series progress you see more and more descent into the apocalypse, but the difference there is that they still attempt to maintain society. Society requires law and order, mutual trust and goodwill to function properly.

In summation, the longer into the apocalpyse the more morality degrades and memories of society disappear. Our memories in the DayZ universe are long gone, and our sense of humanity as diminished as the buildings we raid daily for the only keepsake of a society ruined.

[/quote']

Amen, you should pick up the Road though, good book.

[Macenzie 79]

Once society is gone we will revert back to our tribal ways. People will form groups, fight each other for land and supplies.

Once a group gets bigger and better equipped than the other local groups. It starts to form its own society. that is when civilisation starts up again.

[fml 29]

Ever watch The Walking Dead at all? Remember last season where the main character shot the 2 guys in the bar because they wanted to know where their camp & supplies were?

Shaun of the Dead? Really? A brit zombie comedy? Really?

28 Days/Months Later? Did you not watch the second half of the movie?

Terrible comparisons.

They grouped up' date=' gathered supplies, picked up more members, people attempted to kill them less than 90% of the time. You have got to be trolling. You are only taking the attacks in the movies into account. Do I really have to list all the times...

[hr']

And before you say it's not how I would behave' date=' I have a wife & child, I would damn straight light up anyone who came within 50 feet of my domicile given the right scenario

[/quote']

So if you were alone, as in dayz, would you still have reason to light up a person on site? Would you light up a man with his family if he asked for assistance?

[Powermolch 3]

Amen' date=' you should pick up the Road though, good book.

[/quote']

I liked the movie very much too. Doesnt mirror the book 100% but its still the most depressing and most apocalyptic movie I've seen.

[Macenzie 79]

They grouped up' date=' gathered supplies, picked up more members, people attempted to kill them less than 90% of the time. You have got to be trolling. You are only taking the attacks in the movies into account. Do I really have to list all the times...

[/quote']

You are talking about Hollywood movies. Everyone else is talking about human nature.

Which do you think is more realisistic?

[fml 29]

Once society is gone we will revert back to our tribal ways. People will form groups' date=' fight each other for land and supplies.

Once a group gets bigger and better equipped than the other local groups. It starts to form its own society. that is when civilisation starts up again.

[/quote']No body groups up on dayz unless theyve made previous arrangements on skype.

[Jacorvin 0]

Amen' date=' you should pick up the Road though, good book.

[/quote']

I liked the movie very much too. Doesnt mirror the book 100% but its still the most depressing and most apocalyptic movie I've seen.

I still have not seen the movie, but its on the list... like so many other movies.

[fml 29]

They grouped up' date=' gathered supplies, picked up more members, people attempted to kill them less than 90% of the time. You have got to be trolling. You are only taking the attacks in the movies into account. Do I really have to list all the times...

[/quote']

You are talking about Hollywood movies. Everyone else is talking about human nature.

Which do you think is more realisistic?

Okay yes hollywood is hollywood, but in real life I would not be shooting everyone on site. Would you? Or would you run around rambo style killing spree?

[funionz 7]

Ever watch The Walking Dead at all? Remember last season where the main character shot the 2 guys in the bar because they wanted to know where their camp & supplies were?

Shaun of the Dead? Really? A brit zombie comedy? Really?

28 Days/Months Later? Did you not watch the second half of the movie?

Terrible comparisons.

They grouped up' date=' gathered supplies, picked up more members, people attempted to kill them less than 90% of the time. You have got to be trolling. You are only taking the attacks in the movies into account. Do I really have to list all the times...

[/quote']

You're also only talking about the BEGINNING of the series. Once he's had a time to process the events and become stressed into making decisions, he starts to do what needs to be done. Why didn't you pick a different character, like Daryl for instance. If he were alone do you think he would offer you some of his rations? What about his brother Merle? What about Shane? You cherry picked the most upright characters with the best moral compasses, and you say I'm trolling.

[DedPan 0]

The problem with this argument is the assumption that everyone is naturally good and gonna play nice, and it's an anathema that people prey on those weaker than them.

The Walking Dead is full of people who are desperate and looking for a leg up to survive. How about the 2 guys Rick wasted at the end of season 2? Or here's a better question, you think Merle would have been as caring as Rick was?

Hell just look at the period right after Hurricane Katrina. Plenty of people looting and pillaging following the breakdown of law. You know how people stopped from becoming victims? The same thing that works in DayZ: a gun and a mistrust of anyone you don't know.

[fml 29]

It's because there's no real structure for co-operation (I have a suggestion for it here) and any such groupings are intrinsically non persistent and offer little benefit (plus it takes ages to meet up) plus there's no concept of reputation when the population is so fluid.

On the the other hand the open-world FFA full-loot PvP people are incredibly happy to find a game that lets them play the way they like (killing poorly equipped noobs) and pretty much don't care what the justification is as long as it supports the gameplay style they want.

I completely agree. A fluid population makes that difficult to implement.

There seems to be many of them on this forum that bark at anyone threatening their advantageous position. They come across people trying to co-operate' date=' kill them, and dont give a fuck about the game or its direction, because they just because they got some beans.

[hr']

The problem with this argument is the assumption that everyone is naturally good and gonna play nice' date=' and it's an anathema that people prey on those weaker than them.

The Walking Dead is full of people who are desperate and looking for a leg up to survive. How about the 2 guys Rick wasted at the end of season 2? Or here's a better question, you think Merle would have been as caring as Rick was?

Hell just look at the period right after Hurricane Katrina. Plenty of people looting and pillaging following the breakdown of law. You know how people stopped from becoming victims? The same thing that works in DayZ: a gun and a mistrust of anyone you don't know.

[/quote']

All valid points, Merle especially. I just think the player killing needs to be toned down if this is gonna be a simulator. Or perhaps I am just a carebear IRL.

---

You're also only talking about the BEGINNING of the series. Once he's had a time to process the events and become stressed into making decisions' date=' he starts to do what needs to be done. Why didn't you pick a different character, like Daryl for instance. If he were alone do you think he would offer you some of his rations? What about his brother Merle? What about Shane? You cherry picked the most upright characters with the best moral compasses, and you say I'm trolling.

[/quote']

I didnt cherry pick, I picked the first 2 names off the top of my head. And my point still stands. They are not all killing eachother. Maybe 10% of encounters at most.

[TrajanP 0]

Difference is... one is real life and one isn't.

Truth is if this shit happened in real life everyone would be shitting themselves in fear. No one would want to be alone... so why the fuck would someone kill someone else? They would want as much company as possible... (until it got overwhelming then maybe they would kill i.e. not enough food/room for more... )

but just.. as individuals... no one would want to ice someone else... they'd definitely want to team up for fear of dying themselves.

DayZ is a game.... and that fear quickly goes away when you realize that you can simply keep respawning. As a guy with no gear you dont have shit to lose... so you'll be more likely to kill anyone to get shit.. i mean.. who cares right?

As a guy with better gear you wont get into fights you are afraid to might lose... or arent sure. so basically they only shoot at people they know they can usually kill.

its all relative.