IDEA: Post traumatic stress disorder

[Grabarz (DayZ) 95]

I just had an idea that could make the decision if to KoS or not a whole lot harder to make. How about a 'moral' indicator, i.e. conscience system?

Everytime you kill an enemy who is either unarmed or armed with a melee weapon within a certain radius, there could a punishment that reaches from depression to total insanity for an ever increasing length of time.

I think that this is the only factor which would keep one from killing in the apocalyse.

Seeing others being hurt or killed might have an effect as well...

E.g. punishment could be effects on aiming, endurance or slower regeneration

Haven't read on PTSD yet, I thought I throw this idea in here first to see what you guys think.

 

[weparo 613]

No. This has been rejected soo many times now. Stop asking

[Grabarz (DayZ) 95]

No. This has been rejected soo many times now. Stop asking

May I ask you to be a little more constructive and ellaborate on the subject or provide a link to where this had been discussed, instead of telling me what to do?

[Aussie Bogan 350]

Well the last thing i need is to develop a mental issue after self defense or locking players in my basement. ( Understand where your coming from but i believe to much realism can kill a game ;( )

 

Next thing people will be requesting i hit "B" every 3-5 secs in order for my character to breath.. It's just not really practical.

 

[badluckburt 974]

May I ask you to be a little more constructive and ellaborate on the subject or provide a link to where this had been discussed, instead of telling me what to do?

 

Try browsing through this forum: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/forum/9-dayz-suggestions/

[-Gews- 7443]

May I ask you to be a little more constructive and ellaborate on the subject or provide a link to where this had been discussed, instead of telling me what to do?

 

Too many times to link them all.

 

People don't like it because it forces their blank-slate character to react a specific way, most people want all the reactions to come from the player and not be decided for them. It also punishes a certain play style.

 

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/118304-post-traumatic-stress-disorder/

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/8534-killing-sprees-need-consequences/

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/149388-anti-banditry/

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/23511-side-effects-of-murdering/

 

 

 

Only a few examples out of dozens and dozens.

[Grabarz (DayZ) 95]

Well the last thing i need is to develop a mental issue after self defense or locking players in my basement. ( Understand where your coming from but i believe to much realism can kill a game ;( )

 

Next thing people will be requesting i hit "B" every 3-5 secs in order for my character to breath.. It's just not really practical.

 

Yep, not sure about this either, but perhaps something like this would work if implemented smartly. That's why I wrote that it should just kick in when you kill an unarmed player or someone at a distance who's carrying a melee weapon.

[weparo 613]

Too many times to link them all.

 

People don't like it because it forces their blank-slate character to react a specific way, most people want all the reactions to come from the player and not be decided for them. It also punishes a certain play style.

 

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/118304-post-traumatic-stress-disorder/

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/8534-killing-sprees-need-consequences/

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/149388-anti-banditry/

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/23511-side-effects-of-murdering/

 

 

 

Only a few examples out of dozens and dozens.

 

 

Try browsing through this forum: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/forum/9-dayz-suggestions/

 

Thanks ponies :) :)

[aj_ (DayZ) 18]

I don't see a problem with punishing a style which is far, far more profitable (bandit). However, the issue is that it is not possible to create a system which can accurately and consistently ascertain who is the aggressor and who is acting in self-defense. If someone were to lunge at me with an axe, without provocation, and I shot him, should I suffer the same penalty as someone who kills a fresh spawn for no reason whatsoever? If you say "well, if he swung his axe before you shot him, he's obviously the aggressor", then that would give axe murderers the freedom to run right up to your face and cleave you in two or force you to shoot in self-defense and get penalized (because you attacked first so the game thinks you're the aggressor).

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1

 

It's called search. Use it.

[Knightmare (DayZ) 109]

I don't see a problem

 

The game isn't black and white just as you are pointing out. Just because someone hasn't fired a shot yet doesn't mean they won't. What if they miss you? Does the game consider them firing an act of banditry (such as near a player)? So then what if I wait for you to shoot at a zombie far away and walk near you, boom, you just "missed" me, but I shoot you. All praise the hero of DayZ, Me! Does it only count if /you/ take damage? So what then let someone essentially shoot you first out of fear of being punished?

 

Punishment is counter intuitive. It needs to be incentive. My best suggestion is making the zombie threat in DayZ incentive enough to work randomly together. Right now, and in the Mod, Zombies are never much of a threat. (Especially now in SA with its absence of Zombies, obviously because they are incomplete). If you couldn't lone wolf your way into a hospital that is reason enough to need a friend or two, even if they are strangers.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Knightmare

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Yep, not sure about this either, but perhaps something like this would work if implemented smartly. That's why I wrote that it should just kick in when you kill an unarmed player or someone at a distance who's carrying a melee weapon.

 

It's just not possible. There are very context specific situations that might justify you killing an unarmed person. There are many situations when a player killing another armed player would still be considered banditry.

 

 

Oh I have an idea - why don't you write some kind of super algorithm that can watch people and predict human nature? Oh wait. Because that's freaking impossible. /endofthread

[badluckburt 974]

Oh I have an idea - why don't you write some kind of super algorithm that can watch people and predict human nature? Oh wait. Because that's freaking impossible. /endofthread

 

It's not impossible, it just takes forever but there's no reason get on the OP's case about that. You really feel superior to some of the others here by the looks of it, keep it up.

[CrownFox 0]

The game isn't black and white just as you are pointing out. Just because someone hasn't fired a shot yet doesn't mean they won't. What if they miss you? Does the game consider them firing an act of banditry (such as near a player)? So then what if I wait for you to shoot at a zombie far away and walk near you, boom, you just "missed" me, but I shoot you. All praise the hero of DayZ, Me! Does it only count if /you/ take damage? So what then let someone essentially shoot you first out of fear of being punished?

 

Punishment is counter intuitive. It needs to be incentive. My best suggestion is making the zombie threat in DayZ incentive enough to work randomly together. Right now, and in the Mod, Zombies are never much of a threat. (Especially now in SA with its absence of Zombies, obviously because they are incomplete). If you couldn't lone wolf your way into a hospital that is reason enough to need a friend or two, even if they are strangers.

 

Even in that case, the form of incentive isn't enough. That's simply punishing people that don't have a bunch of friends to play with.

 

This subject is hard to tackle from any direction. You can't just make zombies too hard, the survival rate will plummet and any long term gameplay could potentially be ruined.

 

You need to award teamwork and working with strangers, without punishing people who like to run around on their lonesome. 

 

That is not easy to do without risking the core gameplay of DayZ. 

[Derpy_Hooves (DayZ) 4521]

PTSD isn't just caused by shooting at someone... it goes far beyond that. Even just being in a combat zone with those split second life or death choices can trigger PTSD without a single shot being fired.

 

Honestly though i don't know how you could make the character share some of the characteristics of PTSD since most symptoms stay hidden or are simply not spoken about, or what actually happens to someone suffering PTSD, my experiences go from one extreme to another but no two minds will every be exact on how they cope with the issue.

 

A great thing to bring up OP, PTSD isn't discussed enough however i can't see it's symptoms and actions being well executed in a game. 

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

It's not impossible, it just takes forever but there's no reason get on the OP's case about that. You really feel superior to some of the others here by the looks of it, keep it up.

 

Lol, it's not a complex, but thanks for the psychoanalysis. Anyone who knows basic programming could tell you that a machine can't really analyze context very well. There's no way to understand a conversation between two people, for example. How do you omnipotently judge who is the aggressor when a majority of the interaction is taking place over direct chat? It's just not possible. People keep kicking around this hallucination idea, but it's terrible. It's a constructed experience for starters, which is not really natural to the core game. And secondly, what do you do about all the false positives and such that this system would be plagued by? It's just logic. There's nothing "superior" about it. If you don't like my opinion, don't listen to it.

[Derpy_Hooves (DayZ) 4521]

i do beg to differ with your hallucination theory, I shall use personal experience.

 

When i came into a situation after my military days where immense stress and pressure came into it everything changed, best way to describe what happened was my audio levels dropped, everything was a murmur, stuck with tunnel vision, started to get light headed before after a few minutes coming back to my senses.

Now any of the above could be implemented into SA to represent some kind of mental struggle and if you wanna barter on about realism (not aimed at you) then here is another solution. Problem is not everyone understands why mental illness happens or who it effects. 

Basically you could have this in the game with the knowledge of say some past experiences such as myself and it would work, what wouldn't work is the level of brain capacity modern gamers have, they would see this as a problem, "that wouldn't happen to me.... uhh thats not real blah blah blah" 

Trying to manipulate human logic into a game isn't easy and further more when the logic of 90% is "OMFG I MUST KIIII" then you can see why it wouldn't work.

[badluckburt 974]

Lol, it's not a complex, but thanks for the psychoanalysis. Anyone who knows basic programming could tell you that a machine can't really analyze context very well. There's no way to understand a conversation between two people, for example. How do you omnipotently judge who is the aggressor when a majority of the interaction is taking place over direct chat? It's just not possible. People keep kicking around this hallucination idea, but it's terrible. It's a constructed experience for starters, which is not really natural to the core game. And secondly, what do you do about all the false positives and such that this system would be plagued by? It's just logic. There's nothing "superior" about it. If you don't like my opinion, don't listen to it.

 

I never said it was a complex, those are your own words. Fun fact for you btw, programming is my day job so I at least have a clue of what I'm talking about here. You would need an awesome amount of processor power (think quantum) to run it but it's NOT as impossible as you put it. I know it will never be implemented in SA, I just don't like it when people start yelling impossibru when it isn't.

[aseliot 23]

It's just not possible. There are very context specific situations that might justify you killing an unarmed person. There are many situations when a player killing another armed player would still be considered banditry.

 

 

Oh I have an idea - why don't you write some kind of super algorithm that can watch people and predict human nature? Oh wait. Because that's freaking impossible. /endofthread

 

Don't say that too quickly, you might not be able to check if the kill was justified but I could imagne making a check for kos. It would check with a vision cone  with a vision cone wehter a player is sighted and how long it takes the players to shoot, you coud also check who attacked first while in the vicinity of anyone else. Or check the raycast from the players. Could be fun to graph things :D 

[aj_ (DayZ) 18]

Don't say that too quickly, you might not be able to check if the kill was justified but I could imagne making a check for kos. It would check with a vision cone  with a vision cone wehter a player is sighted and how long it takes the players to shoot, you coud also check who attacked first while in the vicinity of anyone else. Or check the raycast from the players. Could be fun to graph things :D

 

And then you spot some dude running towards your buddy, axe raised, and shoot him. Oops, KoS.