"Bandits" A rant about certain people

[louist 163]

In regards to the OP:

 

Without Bandits, what would you be overcoming? The zombies won't likely ever be a large enough threat to warrant a game in itself, nor will the food, medical, and thirst mechanics. By themselves they fall short and are entirely too predictable to provide any sort of lasting challenge or engagement. So we turn to other people. They surprise us, they outthink us, they antagonize us. Without bandits, without random KOSers, without individuals or organized groups who play according to their own personal rules, what would we have?

 

So, no, I do not see anything wrong with either bandits or murders or medics or snipers. Some might derive their enjoyment from causing grief, where others like to help, but they provide the challenge and randomness the game otherwise lacks. They provide the emergent story. What events are more memorable to you: the sudden firefights in Elektro, or smashing yet another zombie's head in with a baseball bat for a can of tuna?

Edited December 22, 2013 by louist

[burneddi 13]

More fun? Perhaps not. But it is certainly safer than giving him the chance to knife you as you pull out the handcuffs.

 

 

The way things stand, I will ALWAYS shoot on sight at an unknown. 90% of the time I try and act friendly or communicate with them, I get killed. So now it's either them or me!

So, you would rather keep on doing the same thing over and over again (teaming up with your static on an external VOIP and go KoS people) than have the possibility for some unique player interaction, simply because you're so concerned about your gear in a game where you can easily get fully geared in less than an hour?

[burneddi 13]

In regards to the OP:

 

Without Bandits, what would you be overcoming? The zombies won't likely ever be a large enough threat to warrant a game in itself, nor will the food, medical, and thirst mechanics. By themselves they fall short and are entirely too predictable to provide any sort of lasting challenge or engagement. So we turn to other people. They surprise us, they outthink us, they antagonize us. Without bandits, without random KOSers, without individuals or organized groups who play according to their own personal rules, what would we have?

 

So, no, I do not see anything wrong with either bandits or murders or medics or snipers. Some might derive their enjoyment from causing grief, where others like to help, but they provide the challenge and randomness the game otherwise lacks.

That's entirely true. However, when literally everyone is a "bandit" that kills everyone on sight, the game turns into what is commonly known as a deathmatch.

 

Deathmatching in a game this vast is just wasted fucking potential. There are tons of games out there explicitly designed for the purpose of being a deathmatch, so why people have to do it in an immersive survival sandbox is beyond me. It's not a god damn competitive game, treating it as such is just playing it wrong and not living your life correctly.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Dejecaal

[Frost20 20]

The best part is... its ALPHA!

[Gdaddy22 299]

The way things stand, I will ALWAYS shoot on sight at an unknown. 90% of the time I try and act friendly or communicate with them, I get killed. So now it's either them or me!

 

"I kill on sight because everyone in killing on sight !!!"

 

-said every player in the game

Edited December 22, 2013 by Gdaddy22

[thealgerian 2]

I said some people have it some don't, being a bandit is not Kosing. That is being a murderer. 

 

That's called being a mindless deathmatcher. And the game was so much more interesting and intense before those guys came around.

[burneddi 13]

The best part is... its ALPHA!

Yeah, which means that now is the perfect time to tackle all the "radical" design choices that differ from what the mod was like, and talk about things like how you are actually "supposed to" be playing this game. We're at a major turning point, as at this point it's finally actually viable for the game to be designed like it originally was supposed to be. A lot of things are going to change as we progress into the standalone, among those will be many of the conventions you're so used to seeing while playing the mod, as mechanics shift and different ways of playing suddenly become more exciting.

[halcyonmaus 1]

It's a game meant to be enjoyed. You're basically just ranting over and over about how other people enjoy the game. If this was meant to be a PvE game, it'd be one. It's not. If people are KoS'ing every time because it's what they enjoy, tough. It's not wrong because it's not what you enjoy. They're not playing it wrong just because it twists your jimmies. 

 

You can call it 'deathmatch' all night long, but it's entirely different. Deathmatching (Quake, CoD, etc.) are pure competition with an equal baseline at the start of every match. There's no gear, just points, K/D ratios, etc. There's nothing competitive about PvP in DayZ, past a small extent (obviously people will varying levels of skill in gearing up, combat, etc.) But it's not fair, ever. Someone will be better geared than you, have more friends with him than you do, see you first, have better latency, get lucky with a Mosin shot, whatever. There are much bigger stakes in DayZ PvP than in-game in a deathmatch style game. It's more brutal and unforgiving, because you can gear for 4 hours and lose it in one shot to a guy you never saw. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

 

Doing the equivalent of name-calling because you don't like it doesn't make you right, you can call KoS'ers CoD babies or whatever all day, but you still have to deal with it if you want to survive. They aren't hacking, they aren't cheating, they spawned on the coast with the same flashlight you did. If you care about surviving above all else, you have to play with that equation. If you want to take the risk of being friendly because you enjoy that 10% chance you just made a new friend / had a cool interaction, that's AWESOME! I'm happy you get to do that. Ironically all I have to say is live and let live, man. Play and let play.

 

Edit: If the game truly was better in a deep and broad way before there was rampant KoS'ing, then I'd imagine the devs would have done more by now to introduce drawbacks to KoS-style play. Maybe they still will. But no matter the consequences, some guy is going to shoot you anyway, either because he was panicked and worried you'd shoot first, or he just wanted your stuff and wanted to poop on your parade. It's as much a part of the game as anything else whether you like it or not, and again it bears mentioning that a lot of people just enjoy playing that way. They paid their $30 too, you just have to live with it. 

Edited December 22, 2013 by halcyonmaus

[ninjacalypse 551]

To be a bandit in DayZ before passing out I saw his wonderful reply to my plea which was, "lol ima bandit faggot lrn2play".

 

Woah, sounds like a future MLG PRO right there!  If he's between the ages of 11 and 16 too he's perfect MLG material! :P

[Clarkeh 58]

If the player didn't have use of his fists which can basiclly 1 shot knock me out i would be more flexible with talking to players in High Tempo situations but right now every player has a weapon whether its thier fists, an axe or a gun. Now if that funky Tazer thing that was in the mod was brought in and could be used as a sidearm needing only batteries and had a medium range to it then hell yea i would happily taze the poor bastard, Take the things i need and continue looting the area whilst keeping an eye on the collapsed unconscious body which somehow can still talk throwing all manner of colourful words my way.

 

Until then im forced to remove the threat through brute force.

[burneddi 13]

It's a game meant to be enjoyed. You're basically just ranting over and over about how other people enjoy the game. If this was meant to be a PvE game, it'd be one. It's not. If people are KoS'ing every time because it's what they enjoy, tough. It's not wrong because it's not what you enjoy. They're not playing it wrong just because it twists your jimmies. 

I'm not saying that you're playing the game wrong if you kill people. I'm saying you're playing it wrong if you treat it as a competitive game. This is completely anecdotal evidence, but having talked to a great many people who tend to play the game like most people seem to nowadays, they do treat it as a competitive game on many levels. For many it's not something as obvious as collecting murdercount or negative humanity. It takes more subtle forms, such as treating (and often even calling) other survivors as enemies by default, thinking the game has some sort of a built-in "kill or be killed" mentality to it (as opposed to a mentality completely instilled by certain members of the community), and for a great many, not ever talking to people not on your external VOIP.

 

The reason I think this kind of gameplay does not inherently belong in DayZ should be obvious: it completely wastes the setting. Sandbox deathmatching like this requires no zombies. It requires no complex first aid mechanics with blood types, no hunger/thirst/sickness mechanics, no crafting, no hunting. It doesn't require survival. One integral part of it that I do agree it requiring is a scavenging system.

 

For these reasons, I think deathmatchers should really be playing something else instead. For instance, Wasteland caters pretty much exactly to this niche. I suppose the reason many of them stick with DayZ instead is that DayZ was their first experience with gameplay like this, and it's become sort of habitual for them. Making the change to a slightly different, but at its core similar game would be such a drag.

 

Having some KoSing players certainly does spice up the gameplay, I do not deny that. However, I'm saying that when the majority of the community is playing a game like this that way, they're really wasting the potential of the game. It's not a very severe offence yet, as so many features are still missing, but if I still see the majority of the playerbase playing the game like Wasteland with zombies in six months, I'm going to have to consider migrating to private communities that do not squander the potential of the game. I do hope, however, that mechanics changes and new features will make deathmatching a less desireable activity, as there would be other, more exciting activities to attract people's attention.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Dejecaal

[louist 163]

@Dejecaal:

Literally everyone isn't playing that way, though. There are groups who specifically don't. Look at the Cherno Quarantine Force (or whatever they call themselves) and other trading, medic, or RP groups.

Yes, they are in the minority, and yes, they seem to exist on in organized groups. But they exist, and I've run into a few of them.

And really, that's part of the appeal, isn't it? The freedom to band together or not. To trust or to kill. To believe everyone is out to get you, and shoot first, or simply avoid everyone. Freedom to approach interactions in whatever way you see fit.

Is KOS the standard practice? Certainly. But it isn't the only one, and I wouldn't want to enforce any particular play style or mindset on anyone else. I may attack people on sight, but I do so because it has prove. Safer and more profitable to me. It is also the only source of uncertainty I have experienced. Once I have a handle on zombies, food, and health, players are the only danger, and overcoming them the only reward.

Part of this stems from the fact that most people seem to be playing solo in SA. As this changes (base building, and so on), we'll see more people playing together, and playing on specific servers. More stable communities will lead to working relationships between players, and we may well see more balanced behavior.

But then, we might not.

[louist 163]

@Dej again:

They aren't wrong to play DayZ like a competitive game, and for two reasons. The first is there is no metric to measure what is the right or wrong way to play a game. There are only more and less effective ways. Anything else is entirely subjective.

Second, DayZ is a highly competitive game. You are trying to survive. You need food, water, medical supplies, survival gear, and weapons to do so. Other players need the same. You're competing for somewhat limited resources. In this sense, other players are actively finishing your odds of survival, even if there was no PvP. But there is, and so their existence also poses a much greater risk. But where you draw the line in mitigating the risk others lose is up to you.

[burneddi 13]

@Dejecaal:

Literally everyone isn't playing that way, though. There are groups who specifically don't. Look at the Cherno Quarantine Force (or whatever they call themselves) and other trading, medic, or RP groups.

Yes, they are in the minority, and yes, they seem to exist on in organized groups. But they exist, and I've run into a few of them.

And really, that's part of the appeal, isn't it? The freedom to band together or not. To trust or to kill. To believe everyone is out to get you, and shoot first, or simply avoid everyone. Freedom to approach interactions in whatever way you see fit.

Is KOS the standard practice? Certainly. But it isn't the only one, and I wouldn't want to enforce any particular play style or mindset on anyone else. I may attack people on sight, but I do so because it has prove. Safer and more profitable to me. It is also the only source of uncertainty I have experienced. Once I have a handle on zombies, food, and health, players are the only danger, and overcoming them the only reward.

Part of this stems from the fact that most people seem to be playing solo in SA. As this changes (base building, and so on), we'll see more people playing together, and playing on specific servers. More stable communities will lead to working relationships between players, and we may well see more balanced behavior.

But then, we might not.

Yes, I agree with you. Saying that literally everyone KoSes was a hyperbole. What I meant is that it seems like the largest group of the different playstyles currently out there is the KoSers.

 

Personally, I enjoy dealing with unknowns in DayZ. That means that even if I meet a KOSer, as long as I actually have a chance to meet and interact with them in any significance, I don't really mind if I end up getting killed. As you said, that is part of the appeal.

 

Base building is one of the large features I expect to be of major significance on how people play the game, especially combined with the other TBD mechanics that will add more depth to survival. I am very hopeful that through it, each player would have a "home server", and slowly get to know the rest of the people on that server. Social interaction is a big part of multiplayer games, and as DayZ pitches itself as an MMO or at least having MMO-like features, social interaction is even more important. It doesn't have to be immersive RP interaction, but I've found that just talking to people makes the game a lot more fun, even if the other party ends up murdering the other.

 

On the topic of social interaction, I found this video today. To me, encounters such as this have always been one of the best parts of DayZ, and I think you would agree at least to a degree. That video is really good in many ways, as it also shows precisely what's "wrong" with a large part of the community when these guys just shoot the wigglers for no reason at the end. Or more specifically, how they just brush off the ridicilously funny scenario they just faced and kill the guys.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Dejecaal

[Hero of Suburbia 40]

I have to agree with the third singer.every time I have tried to initiate a conversation with some one it ends with sone trying to kill me. And I either end up dead or they end up dead. So in the 'alpha' meantime and since there is no reason to work together with people to survive I track down other survivors, observe them from afar and when I know their numbers and behaviors I strike. Then I take the loot and move on. You may say that's not really kos, but effectively it is because even before I meet the next guy I know I'm going to kill him. Until banding together and making friends keeps me alive I will continue to kill.

[Imbalanxd 59]

Also I said KOS is fine in certain situations but when a player can clearly shoot at you because you are in the open but instead says hey and asks a question spraying him and calling him a faggot is not being a bandit.

 

You know what I hate most of all in this game? Its not zombies, or alpha bugs, or bandits, its hello kitty island adventure survivors that shout out friendly at the first sign of another player.

 

I like being a bandit. I like killing on sight. The reason this game is so amazing is because of the fire fights that players can have, and the emotions that you can feel during them, which cannot be experienced in any other, 5 second respawn game.

 

But when somebody runs up behind me and shouts "FRENDLY LOL", do you know what that does to my experience? It shits all over it.

It leaves me in a position where I cannot, in good conscience, kill the player that spotted me before I spotted him. And what's more, I don't get to be killed for the error I made. I don't get to try and recover, and punish him for his error if he tries to kill me and fails.

 

All I'm left with is some moron who wants to be friends in a game where all I want to do is kill other players.

Don't communicate, don't shout friendly, don't share your beans. Just walk away.

[burneddi 13]

You know what I hate most of all in this game? Its not zombies, or alpha bugs, or bandits, its hello kitty island adventure survivors that shout out friendly at the first sign of another player.

 

I like being a bandit. I like killing on sight. The reason this game is so amazing is because of the fire fights that players can have, and the emotions that you can feel during them, which cannot be experienced in any other, 5 second respawn game.

 

But when somebody runs up behind me and shouts "FRENDLY LOL", do you know what that does to my experience? It shits all over it.

It leaves me in a position where I cannot, in good conscience, kill the player that spotted me before I spotted him. And what's more, I don't get to be killed for the error I made. I don't get to try and recover, and punish him for his error if he tries to kill me and fails.

 

All I'm left with is some moron who wants to be friends in a game where all I want to do is kill other players.

Don't communicate, don't shout friendly, don't share your beans. Just walk away.

Have you ever played regular ArmA? Playing missions with a group (or a clan, if you prefer that term) is even more hardcore, especially if they're PvP. You might not respawn at all! If you die, your experience in that scenario is over, finished, while your killer is free to continue enjoying the mission. Now that's exciting!

Edited December 23, 2013 by Dejecaal

[Imbalanxd 59]

Have you ever played regular ArmA? Playing missions with a group (or a clan, if you prefer that term) is even more hardcore, especially if they're PvP. You might not respawn at all! If you die, your experience in that scenario is over, finished, while your killer is free to continue enjoying the mission. Now that's exciting!

 

Nah. I enjoy a good CHKilroy video every now and then, but the player base where I'm from isn't really big enough or organised enough for such a thing.

[louist 163]

Base building and any other features that encourage more stable communities will, I hope, help. The server I play the mod on still has a lot of the KOS mentality, but not to the degree seen in SA, and a large part of that is that we get to "know," each other, as much as the game allows. We learn the mentalities and MOs of regular players, and our actions take our knowledge of these players into account. We develop shared histories. There are players I go out of my way to track down and kill. There are players I help out or team up with. With randoms, I watch, and if the situation presents itself, I take advantage of them.

The "problem" we face right now is a lack of community. Everyone I encounter is playing alone, as I am, which itself encourages a lone-wolf attitude. It's a feedback loop.

We should, I think, see this change as more incentives are added to encourage teaming up. And we've already seen more of what you define as banditry now that we have the tools to interact with each other in more ways than simple combat. Handcuffs encourage capturing people, to a degree, simply because it actually provides us with the means to do so. The change to blood bags does the same! We need to take that blood from someone, which requires not killing them outright.

Are either of these making a big impact? No. But by being provided with these tools, we are seeing some difference. And by providing more of them, we'll likely see a greater change.

[halcyonmaus 1]

Deje, let it go man. People enjoy playing different ways, and you're entirely cool to think there's a potential being wasted, but it's not up to your subjective taste to tell other players what they should be enjoying or how to play a game they paid for, are playing in a way they enjoy, etc. Again, they're not hacking, they're not cheating. It's funny you're telling people having fun maybe they should just play something else. You're the one not seeming to be having fun, shouldn't it be you looking for a different game to play if this one isn't giving you what you're looking for? 

[shadowjack 254]

Seems nearly everyone here is bent on telling others "how the game should be played". Think about it people, IT"S POINTLESS.

 There are 2 types of players.
Those who dictate the actions and those who react to the actions. Nobody will ever be one or the other exclusivly but if you use planning, caution, and inteligent strategy you will control more encounters than not.

[TheRedScare 353]

I learned from the Mod if your around military sites your going to get a bullet in your brain, its part of the risk and reward scenario, You were near the barracks and so was he, You decided to be friendly and reveal your presence and he took advantage of it.

 

DayZ Bandit 101.

I was not near him, I was 150M away aprox. Also it wasn't the killing me bit that annoyed me, it was the fact he shot me for fun and didn't loot me then called me a "faggot" for trying to talk with him. It is that mentality.

[TheRedScare 353]

You know what I hate most of all in this game? Its not zombies, or alpha bugs, or bandits, its hello kitty island adventure survivors that shout out friendly at the first sign of another player.

 

I like being a bandit. I like killing on sight. The reason this game is so amazing is because of the fire fights that players can have, and the emotions that you can feel during them, which cannot be experienced in any other, 5 second respawn game.

 

But when somebody runs up behind me and shouts "FRENDLY LOL", do you know what that does to my experience? It shits all over it.

It leaves me in a position where I cannot, in good conscience, kill the player that spotted me before I spotted him. And what's more, I don't get to be killed for the error I made. I don't get to try and recover, and punish him for his error if he tries to kill me and fails.

 

All I'm left with is some moron who wants to be friends in a game where all I want to do is kill other players.

Don't communicate, don't shout friendly, don't share your beans. Just walk away.

I am a bandit. I saw a guy and decided hey maybe for once I could be nice instead of robbing people, he might be a newbie and could use the help! I don't care that he killed me I care that his mentality was to shoot because "lol bandit" and then call me a faggot because I tried to talk.

[SpetsnazGRU (DayZ) 9]

I hope that kid's computer rig bursts into flames. 

[Aeoneth 163]

I am in agreement with being annoyed at bandit's calling themselves that when they don't rob anyone.  Psycho is my (borrowed) term for them.

 

But the truth is most players are min-maxers who would rather take the fast, boring, tourney winner via constant grab techniques than be someone who actually decides to try and challenge the common perception / tactics or even one persons mind.

 

I say let them, when they start being bored because they're playing the exact same game as every other game, then they will either change their own mind or they will move on.  Nothing will be lost.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Aeoneth