The game needs a bandit system/rewards for being either good or bad

[alleycat 135]

Can we get some info on and even if developers plan to reward non bandit gameplay at all? So far from reading and watching streams I only found these things:

 

 

- Loot on a player getting damaged when he is shot

- Adding blood on a player that recently interacted with corpses

 

 

These are just esoterical things that will never stop anyone from killing another player on sight. Even people trying to be nice to others will turn bandit and everyoen will be a bandit then.

 

- If you are helping another player that recently spawned that same guy will shoot you on sight when you meet him later because he has no way of recognizing you.

- The streams are probably unintentionally misleading about the carebear gameplay in this game. You can see rocket wander in groups and people talking and being nice. Is that because no one of the closed test team would dare go bandit on a developer? Because that carebearing does not happen when someone has a gun.

 

-Early in the mod the bandit system was dropped because of that weird idea of keeping the game "pure" of "gamey" concepts so it can be "this is your story".

 

But my story is, shoot and kill on sight or regret it.

 

 

And I dont see any developer comment on actually trying to adress that. Might aswell drop the carebear and social interaction content and invest development time in a few more guns.

 

 

And the alpha fundamentalists (its alpha!) can skip their argument too, because in the mod there was the expectation of some incentive for carebearing, but that never materialized.

 

 

The game needs:

 

- Ways to identify a player, by looking at his face up close

- A message showign you the name of who killed you

- HARD TANGIBLE INCENTIVE to be good or bad. HARD numbers in a stat screen if need be. And that is still more immersive than going text adventure fundamentalist and pretending people will actually not shoot someone because that useless shirt he is wearing gets a bit damaged.

 

 

As of now there is 0% consequence for killing on sight. And a lot of good reasons to do it instead of not doing it. There should be the possiblitiy for shooting on sight. But its merits outweigh the none existing disadvantages so hard that carebearing is not only irrelevant but highly irresponsible.

 

 

What is the most important and rewarding thing in this game? Gathering better gear. And how do you get better gear?

 

1. Scavenge through buildings

2. Take it off player corpses

 

Now which of these is the most convenient and rewarding way? It is 2. Because you can get a huge amount of useful loot in one package without the tedious searching. And since the guy wont ever be able to tell who killed him for that loot and the game has so many players, there is no bad consequences for it.

 

Is rocket schizophrenic about this? They created features that are supposed to enhance carebearing yet every design decision so far is pointing at keeping it a pure deathmatch.

Edited December 20, 2013 by alleycat

[weparo 613]

No

[alleycat 135]

Yes

[Aussie Bogan 350]

Maybe XD

[Korsbaek 1778]

Just no.

[weparo 613]

Certainly not. DayZ has a clear concept. Open world survival. No skinns, no BS. So no! and that's final, any further discussion won't get you anwhere but to the graveyard.

 

So don't even start and argument, because it will never happen. Guaranteed.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Weparo

[Konna 149]

I think it might just be a bit too early for such system to be put in place. There's a lot more important to fix/add.  ^_^

[alleycat 135]

You are wrong.

 

The developers are developing things that are supposed to enhance carebearing so they have intentions to support carebearing. But all attempts so far are not strong enough.

 

Also read my post and think a bit. Bandit system does not only mean texture change on a player.

 

 

 

I think it might just be a bit too early for such system to be put in place. There's a lot more important to fix/add.  ^_^

The problem is that there is nothing that says in teh planned feature about it yet, and if they let it drift it will end up like the mod, which is a giant shoot on sight deathmatch. So putting in HARD incentive to carebear early would actually make all these features viable

 

-camping, making food, campfires, helping other players with first aid

 

But now it is all about shooting players on sight and life expectancy is so short that these complicated health systems (raincoat for bad weather lol) dont even matter because you wont live long enough to get health complications.

 

 

Sure you can have teamplay with friends you know. But that is still only a choice between TEAM DEATHMATCH or regular DEATHMATCH

Edited December 20, 2013 by alleycat

[terrvik 2409]

Simple fix is multiply the zombies on the server by four, enable them respawning and make them react and move towards sounds such as gunshots from really far away. Have fun surviving a horde just because you wanted to feel like an awesome sniper. :)

 

Every action must have a risk attached to it and it should be neccessary for players to remain stealthy. Not gunning down anyone you see is, I kid you not, way more silent!

Edited December 20, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[alleycat 135]

Simple fix is multiply the zombies on the server, enable them respawning and make them react and move towards sounds such as gunshots from really far away. Have fun surviving a horde just because you wanted to feel like an awesome sniper. :)

 

Every action must have a risk attached to it and it should be neccessary for players to remain stealthy. Not gunning down anyone you see is, I kid you not, way more silent!

 

That actually worked in the mod. Still it would only delay shooting others on sight. Carebearing because you dont have access to a weapon or cant afford shooting it now does not fix it. It only delays the problem.

 

 

At the very least players should be able to identify others and see who killed them. So on a server that people play regularly on you can get familiar with players and build trust or a reputation.

Edited December 20, 2013 by alleycat

[Homiak 21]

Kill on sight is a problem. DayZ is not a deathmatch game and KoS is breaking immersion - no one will just shoot for no reason in a zombie apocalypse - it lowers yours chances of survival as you'll draw unneeded attention of zombies, you may be attacked by yours victims friends, you will waste ammunition etc etc.

 

But banditry and killing on purpose is absolutely OK.

 

About you proposals:

"Ways to identify a player, by looking at his face up close" I beleive is absolutely OK and is quite reasonable.

"A message showing you the name of who killed you" I beleive is not good. You see what you see so no magic knowledge about your killer for you.

"HARD TANGIBLE INCENTIVE" - can you make some examples?

[ParaB 114]

Sooner or later some kind of morality system needs to be implemented. Most kills in DayZ are NOT because of a struggle for rare ressources but simply for the lolz. There's a world of difference between stumbling upon another player in the middle of the night in a high-value military compound and shooting 1st and camping the coast head-shooting newbies with a sniper rifle.

 

Some of you might still remember the early days of DayZ, when there still was a lot of player interaction. Half a year and a HUGE influx of new players later and player interaction outside of preformed groups basically dropped to zero. Which was really sad because what happened between strangers in a harsh environment was what really made for memorable gaming moments.

 

PvP is great. And I'm not advocating restricting it. But shooting everything that moves simply is boring as hell in the long run.

[alleycat 135]

In the real world there are other factors that would possibly make people hesitate to kill on sight in that situation:

 

-Still being new to the whole situation. You would react more civilized. But that would go away after some time.

-Desperation and loneliness. Some people might want to team up with others so they dont have to be on their own.

 

None of this is modeled or can be modeled ingame. So at some point you have to be "gamey" to incentivize carebearing. Because in a free for all deathmatch with no rules and no consequences, hesitating to kill on sight is stupid and careless.

 

The only way to incentivize carebearing is TANGIBLE reward. Reputation for example.

 

Imagine you play often on the same server. You get known (people can recognize your face = nametag) for handing out supplies to new players and providing medical aid. People start to trust you. Or you are a bandit that murders on sight. People will start avoiding you or shooting on sight. And to be able to build a reputation or make friends,

 

YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO ID PEOPLE. That is why you need to tell who you are tlakin to or interacting with. And if you get killed by a player, and you get a message after dying, that player has the consequences of killing you, because you want revenge.

 

 

Seriously, the keeping it pure immersion fundamentalism is ruining the social gameplay that is supposed to be a part of the game. Shooting on sight is not only rewarded, it is the ONLY thing that is rewarded.

Edited December 20, 2013 by alleycat

[legolas_xp 13]

No, thank you

[alleycat 135]

No, thank you

I will murder 10 new spawn players with my mosin rifle for what you said, because I can

[Weedz 1105]

I think the faction based MMORPG game you're looking for is that way ------------------------->

[victusmortuus 1074]

I personally think when the items that are 'ruined' are actually ruined and unable to be used again, then and only then will we see people thinking twice on whether to kill somebody on sight. I have a few 'KoS' friends and they have been more inclined as of right now to hold people up, take their blood, take their food, take their life. 

 

If I had to choose between KoS and torture (that's what it is) then I'd choose the latter as the guy may be really nice and make you think twice, although a lot of players are only in it for the 'trolling heuheu'.

[alleycat 135]

I personally think when the items that are 'ruined' are actually ruined and unable to be used again, then and only then will we see people thinking twice on whether to kill somebody on sight. I have a few 'KoS' friends and they have been more inclined as of right now to hold people up, take their blood, take their food, take their life. 

 

If I had to choose between KoS and torture (that's what it is) then I'd choose the latter as the guy may be really nice and make you think twice, although a lot of players are only in it for the 'trolling heuheu'.

People tried to get blood from me too, I simply ran away, they shot me but you cant get blood from a corpse so I still win. And before I let someone rob me I rather die running away.

 

And even if shooting someone would ruin all of his loot people would still do it. Because if the other guy is dead he cant kill you.

[JFord 4]

I like the reputation idea.

[legolas_xp 13]

I will murder 10 new spawn players with my mosin rifle for what you said, because I can

Have fun then,, 

[weparo 613]

No, no reputations. Sorry, but this isn't just any mmo. To the guy who said the medical system is "complicated" : Get a brain. Stop being stupid. It's about as hard and "complicated" as lighting a match IRL.

 

DayZ didn't have a reputation system, and it never will. Sure, we have the skinns in the mod, but that's already too much and a large amount of people didn't want them anyways. The game shouldn't and won't judge its players. Stop asking for it. If you wan't a game with "the good vs the bad", THIS IS NOT IT. THIS IS DAYZ. THIS IS YOUR STORY.I'm serious, go play another game. DayZ will never have a "good"/"bad" scheme, hence it will never have rewards for being either. There will be complex (health) mechanics that require much time and dedication to successfuly apply.

 

BUT THERE WON'T EVER BE A "GOOD/BAD" SYSTEM

 

 

Deal with it.

Weparo

Edited December 20, 2013 by Weparo

[TheRedScare 353]

Simple fix is multiply the zombies on the server by four, enable them respawning and make them react and move towards sounds such as gunshots from really far away. Have fun surviving a horde just because you wanted to feel like an awesome sniper. :)

 

Every action must have a risk attached to it and it should be neccessary for players to remain stealthy. Not gunning down anyone you see is, I kid you not, way more silent!

Considering I as well as a lot of other veteran bandits can snipe a moving target from 800M+ and the audible range of the guns is 0-400M depending on the type I don't see how that would stop us sniping.

[Combine (DayZ) 247]

From what I remember, reading the planned features will basically, eventually, result in more social interaction. Because you can or are supposed to build stuff in the long run. Could encourage trading or at the very least, the focus might shift from deathmatch to team deathmatch.

 

So basically I can imagine the south or coastal region being anarchy most of the time while the central / northern regions are the big deal with faction wars or so. Still better than 24/7 deathmatch.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

because in the mod there was the expectation of some incentive for carebearing, but that never materialized.

 

I definitely don't recall any such expectation, or any suggestion on the part of rocket that anything of the sort was planned. In fact, I recall very specifically him saying that he did not plan to artificially award or punish any play style if he could avoid it.

 

 

 

Ways to identify a player, by looking at his face up close

 

Absolutely. Great idea.

 

 

 

- A message showign you the name of who killed yo

 

Absolutely not in a million years. You're dead. How would you know anything, let alone who killed you?

 

If you want to identify killers, you need to witness them commit a crime, but survive.

 

During the mod, I posted an idea for a player identification system which would allow for this kind of "witness and report" functionality, but it relies again on you surviving an encounter and passing on information.

 

Knowing who killed you is an absolute non-starter for me. It should simply never happen and I am confident that rocket agrees. It is entirely too "gamey" for a dead person to magically know the name of their murderer and carry that information into a new life.

 

 

 

HARD TANGIBLE INCENTIVE to be good or bad.

I don't know what the words "hard" and "tangible" mean in this context, but it starts to sound a bit like you're suggesting punishing the wicked and rewarding the just, which is not what this game is about.

 

Incentives should emerge from the design of the game, not be tacked on. The "skins" were tacked on. It's ridiculous that I should be forced to wear certain clothes because of my behavior. These are the sorts of features we should try to avoid and look rather for ways to build features of the game that offer players an opportunity to behave in certain ways over time in order to reap long-term benefits.

 

For example, giving players the ability to "report" on the activities of other survivors would make being a hero really attractive. People would start to learn your name, recognize you, etc. and you would become a kind of savior among survivors, but do so through natural means - actions which beget word-of-mouth accolades, not some special hat you wear that identifies you as a "good guy."

 

 

 

As of now there is 0% consequence for killing on sight.

 

Incorrect. The consequence of engaging in violent action immediately upon seeing another player is that you, yourself are now exposed to violence. A player who constantly attacks other players violently is far more likely to die a violent death themselves than one who surrounds himself with friends and avoids contact with strangers.

 

 

 

What is the most important and rewarding thing in this game? Gathering better gear.

 

Not for me.

 

 

 

Is rocket schizophrenic about this? They created features that are supposed to enhance carebearing yet every design decision so far is pointing at keeping it a pure deathmatch.

 

No, rocket is not schizophrenic. Being good is and will remain very difficult. There will be no artificial rewards for just deciding not to be evil, nor will there be artificial punishments for choosing to be evil.

 

Yes, being evil might get you more "stuff" but stuff stops being useful at a certain point in the game. This isn't WoW where you need to continually be getting better and better "gear" in order to keep being successful. You get guns and supplies, and that's about all you need. After that, you decide what to do with yourself and that can either be helping other people achieve the same, or doing your best to make life difficult for other survivors.

 

The entire drama of the game is based on the fact that both of these decision are equally possible and can be rewarding in their own ways. Some people choose to be good because a. it's uncommon and they feel special and b. it's just fun to help people. Others choose to be evil because fuck it why not. 

 

If you start tacking on features to remove this choice, or make it "easier" to be good, you undermine the source of that drama. I just don't see the point. The game is infinitely more interesting, intense and scary precisely because there are people out there playing it like a "pure deathmatch" and you have to deal with their presence.

Edited December 20, 2013 by ZedsDeadBaby

[xX_fr0st-w0lf_Xx (DayZ) 343]

No with the power of 1000 suns