Dayz - The engine of disconnected unresponsive controls

[Zacharybinx34 1]

DayZ is a brilliant, BRILLIANT, concept. But after experimenting with the alpha I have the following concerns. 

 

 

- Graphics are not what make or break a game, but they are nice - this game looks like it is a 2004 release. 

 

- Relating to graphics, everything looks so blurry it makes my eyes water - even with turning graphics up high. 

 

- The movement feels like I'm not at all in control of my character (first-person is the worst, but 3rd isn't much better). Snappy controls are a must have for any modern game - Dayz is one of the worst I have ever experienced for snappy controls, very un-responsive. 

 

- The game needs a tutorial (I know this is Alpha, and they will probably make one eventually, but just giving my advice. 

 

- The game's camera has a bizarre FISH EYE look to it, no matter what the FOV is at. 

 

I am just curious why the team went with the Arma engine? Why not an engine like Unreal where it feels much more fluid and doesn't look terrible? 

 

 

 

Now, I know it's Alpha, but that's irrelevant. My point of this post is to provide constructive criticism. 

Edited December 19, 2013 by Zacharybinx34

[terrvik 2409]

Each to his own. I for one think the game looks amazing. The controls need some work but I like the fact that you feel some weight in the movement. Not saying it is perfect, but I don't want standard FPS controlling either.

[Frell 80]

1. Graphics are terrible for the resources the game requires. This is an engine issue and if it could be fixed easily then Bohemia would have already done it. My guess is that fixing this would cost quite a bit to fund as it would be a hefty rewrite, so maybe DayZ sales will change that. Bohemia ignored alot of performance complaints in Arma 3 also all the way from alpha to release, so don't be surprised if the FPS you see now is final.

 

2. Check your render resolution and make sure its at 100% and turn post processing off.

 

3. I cannot stand the movement, I also made a thread regarding the camera: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/155699-will-this-game-ever-have-a-normal-fps-camera/

 

4. Its alpha but yea your first 'life' could be a mini tutorial

Edited December 19, 2013 by Frell

[Zacharybinx34 1]

Each to his own. I for one think the game looks amazing. The controls need some work but I like the fact that you feel some weight in the movement. Not saying it is perfect, but I don't want standard FPS controlling either.

Weighted movement is bad in every aspect. It makes you feel out of control and disconnected from your character. 

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

DayZ is a brilliant, BRILLIANT, concept. But after experimenting with the alpha I have the following concerns. 

 

 

- Graphics are not what make or break a game, but they are nice - this game looks like it is a 2004 release. 

 

- Relating to graphics, everything looks so blurry it makes my eyes water - even with turning graphics up high. 

 

- The movement feels like I'm not at all in control of my character (first-person is the worst, but 3rd isn't much better). Snappy controls are a must have for any modern game - Dayz is one of the worst I have ever experienced for snappy controls, very un-responsive. 

 

- The game needs a tutorial (I know this is Alpha, and they will probably make one eventually, but just giving my advice. 

 

I am just curious why the team went with the Arma engine? Why not an engine like Unreal where it feels much more fluid and doesn't look terrible? 

 

 

 

Now, I know it's Alpha, but that's irrelevant. My point of this post is to provide constructive criticism. 

 

DayZ started life as an ARMA 2 mod. That's where it came from. A game with the scope of DayZ and what it's trying to achieve would likely be impossible in many other engines. There's a reason this is one of the first games of its kind. ;)

 

I'm not sure why you're having graphics issues - I'm not getting any blurriness, and whilst I'd agree it's no Far Cry 3 or Crysis 3, saying it looks like a 2004 game seems over the top.

 

As you said, I'm sure at some point a basic tutorial will be added, but that is a long, long, long way off yet.

[Frell 80]

A game with the scope of DayZ and what it's trying to achieve would likely be impossible in many other engines.

I should hit you for saying something so wrong

[daze23 549]

if it's overly blurry, you might not be playing at your native resolution

[DMZ_Sniper 73]

- Compared to the mod, Graphics are improved

- For blur, disable post process effects and blur

- Never been a very responsive game, no changes in SA

- Unreal Engine would need a NASA PC to render that map properly

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

I should hit you for saying something so wrong

 OH NO, PLEASE DON'T HIT ME OVER THE INTERNET.

[terrvik 2409]

I should hit you for saying something so wrong

 

Please enlighten us. :)

 

Just posting like that is pointless as it doesn't add anything to the discussion. Also a bit hostile.

 

 

Weighted movement is bad in every aspect. It makes you feel out of control and disconnected from your character. 

 

As I said; I think it needs a lot of work still. For example the animations aren't finished so there are some disconnecting between what you do and what the character does. Still think standard FPS controls would make the game less interesting.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[Zacharybinx34 1]

- Compared to the mod, Graphics are improved

- For blur, disable post process effects and blur

- Never been a very responsive game, no changes in SA

- Unreal Engine would need a NASA PC to render that map properly

 

 

 

MMO-RPG's do this kind of stuff al the time. 

 

I'm not sure why you people are saying that only ARMA Engine can do this.... that's blatantly false. 

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

I should hit you for saying something so wrong

He's absolutely right though.

[mercules 1290]

Weighted movement is bad in every aspect. It makes you feel out of control and disconnected from your character. 

 

How do I put this in a way that it doesn't come across as "Learn2playNewb"? 

The controls feel different than other games because they are. They will be switching that around at some point but having played DayZ in ARMA II all this time I can say that good players get used to it and after a bit it feels natural and you are fully in control. Bad players go on complaining about it. Since you look new to the concept I will assume you will eventually grow used to it and feel in control again.

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

I'm not sure why you people are saying that only ARMA Engine can do this.... that's blatantly false. 

 

Well where are the examples, then?

[FAAmecanic 5]

Turn Post processing off? 

 

All the rest of your comments, while valid, are why this is ALPHA.  In fact even Rocket said in a video from 2 days ago that he likes the inventory system and interaction base...he is not happy with the way it currently works feels it needs improvement.

 

Im sure that is on the top of his LOOOOOONG list after getting netcode and server stability worked out.

[Frell 80]

Please enlighten us. :)

 

Just posting like that is pointless as it doesn't add anything to the discussion. Also a bit hostile.

Well aside from my obviously sarcastic comment you still were pretty wrong

 

Most engines could easily handle this, and many are. Maybe if chernarus was filled with traffic and lots of civilians you'd have an argument but it still wouldn't really hold. It's 2013 and a game of 'this' scale is kind of the norm now for any RPG.

 

All I'm saying is don't let people make you believe that its the scale or anything. Arma has a very bad track record with engines and this is NO surprise. I'm hoping all the money coming in from DayZ will finally solve the performance issue because they'll be able to afford rewrites from the engine team.

 

 

He's absolutely right though.

 

read above

Edited December 19, 2013 by Frell

[Zacharybinx34 1]

How do I put this in a way that it doesn't come across as "Learn2playNewb"? 

The controls feel different than other games because they are. They will be switching that around at some point but having played DayZ in ARMA II all this time I can say that good players get used to it and after a bit it feels natural and you are fully in control. Bad players go on complaining about it. Since you look new to the concept I will assume you will eventually grow used to it and feel in control again.

 

 

 

Saying "get used to it" is a pointless response. Why get used to bad controls? Sure you can, but that's a bad "feature" of a game. 

Edited December 19, 2013 by Zacharybinx34

[mercules 1290]

MMO-RPG's do this kind of stuff al the time. 

 

I'm not sure why you people are saying that only ARMA Engine can do this.... that's blatantly false. 

 

No they don't. 

MMO-RPGs do checks like this:

Is enemy in 3m? If yes attack can be used. 

For directional attacks it goes, "Is enemy in 2 meters and front arc? If Yes attack can be used." 

DayZ has to track bullets which have drop rates and damage fall off and see if they hit or miss and where they hit what items were in that location. If it hits some objects it ricochets and the engine computes that and if anything is along the new path and how much speed it lost... MMO-RPGs are, for the most part, a graphical MUD with very simple calculations going on in the back ground.

[mercules 1290]

Saying "get used to it" is a pointless response. Why get used to bad controls? Sure you can, but that's a bad "feature" of a game. 

A poor mechanic blames his tools...

Poor game players blame game systems. 

[icedon 5]

I should hit you for saying something so wrong

 

And there we go again with the manners ... *Sigh*

[Zacharybinx34 1]

No they don't. 

MMO-RPGs do checks like this:

Is enemy in 3m? If yes attack can be used. 

For directional attacks it goes, "Is enemy in 2 meters and front arc? If Yes attack can be used." 

DayZ has to track bullets which have drop rates and damage fall off and see if they hit or miss and where they hit what items were in that location. If it hits some objects it ricochets and the engine computes that and if anything is along the new path and how much speed it lost... MMO-RPGs are, for the most part, a graphical MUD with very simple calculations going on in the back ground.

 

This is completely false, where are you getting this information from?

[Frell 80]

No they don't. 

MMO-RPGs do checks like this:

Is enemy in 3m? If yes attack can be used. 

For directional attacks it goes, "Is enemy in 2 meters and front arc? If Yes attack can be used." 

DayZ has to track bullets which have drop rates and damage fall off and see if they hit or miss and where they hit what items were in that location. If it hits some objects it ricochets and the engine computes that and if anything is along the new path and how much speed it lost... MMO-RPGs are, for the most part, a graphical MUD with very simple calculations going on in the back ground.

This is a terrible argument.

 

Lets take all the bullets being shot in a game like Planetside 2 or BF4/3 and compare it to Dayz... where ammo and weapons are scarce and there are maybe only 7 shots an hour?

 

lol. Performance arguments that DEFEND DayZ or any Arma2/3 title are insanely outdated and I can't believe you're buying into the talk about the game being too big or what not.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Frell

[Zacharybinx34 1]

A poor mechanic blames his tools...

Poor game players blame game systems. 

 

 

And Fanboys are the worst thing ever for improvement being made. 

[mark3236 (DayZ) 77]

Unrelated but somewhat related topic, firerate fix for local fps is really really lame. It's the game algorithm 101, and no other game that you can pay for does that. If you're getting 60fps, your gun is a minigun. If you're getting 15 fps, your gun shoots slower than a jammed M2HB.

 

The problem was the worst in ARMA3.

Edited December 19, 2013 by mark3236

[Frell 80]

Unrelated but somewhat related topic, firerate fix for local fps is really really lame. It's the game algorithm 101, and no other game that you can pay for does that. If you're getting 60fps, your gun is a minigun. If you're getting 15 fps, your gun shoots slower than a jammed M2HB.

 

The problem was the worst in ARMA3.

Let's not forget the server limited client-side FPS thats plagued Arma for years, which I'll admit seems to have been dealt with decently in SA (or not, we'll find out when more zombies are added)

Edited December 19, 2013 by Frell