Plea: Go back to Making Survival Sandbox

[eggmoe 1]

This is my opinion on the direction of the DayZ development and plea to return it to that of a Sandbox experience and not a *game*. See, a game is something you can win. A sandbox is something you can come to and *play* in. You take from it what you want. Its an experience that is visceral, memorable. That's why this game (we use game as a convenient term to call it) offers something nothing else can.

To rocket: You already know this, and I'm not saying you've lost touch. I just want to remind you where we are.

I enjoy testing, and fully understand alpha and implementing new features changes everything on a weekly basis now almost. However, when the game had fewer features and was more stable, I had some of the most moving experiences from any game I've ever played. The immersion and intesity takes you away from the fact that you're behind a mouse and keyboard. It's addicting.

Keep in mind, I'm not a roleplayer, or a hardcore addict, or a casual. I'm an enthusiest.

Recently, I've felt that everything has become a bit gamey. Everything is starting to seem convenient. I have even see certain posts where you used the words balancing or rebalancing in regards to loot or spawns, which are words I didn't think you'd use. Tweak the numbers to how you want, don't balance.

One of my biggest issues is the awareness of death and respawns. It was only a matter of time, sure, but the acceptance and abuse of 'oh I'll just spawn somewhere else' is lame.

In my opinion, features are good, structure is bad. Some people just like structure. They like being told where to go or how to play. Not you and i, though. I'm not saying make it harder, just make it inconvenient.

That's how I feel. If anyone else feels the same, show your support by posting here.

Thanks.

[Kain Phalanx 9]

Not sure what you're thinking of when you say it, but balance is always important.

[gizm0 96]

He is just adding tools or fixing things to make the sandbox more rounded in areas it is lacking to be considered more survival orinated(misspelled) PVP than deathmatch with a side of survivial.

[Jorden 63]

I have to slightly agree. I do feel like we need to be careful with what exactly becomes implemented with the mod. Too much can make it feel ugly.

[gizm0 96]

I have to slightly agree. I do feel like we need to be careful with what exactly becomes implemented with the mod. Too much can make it feel ugly.

I say give players all the tools needed for doing anything they wish to do, this wouldn't be ugly it just wouldn't feel like it does now.

[Jorden 63]

Not sure what you're thinking of when you say it' date=' but balance is always important.

[/quote']

You must be new here.

[Kain Phalanx 9]

You must be new here.

Yeah, got a point? Going to bring up something Rocket said on an occasion where he was talking out of his ass?

How many bullets it takes to kill a zombie is a balance question. If you think 1000 is fine and dandy then continue to disagree.

[Jorden 63]

Yeah' date=' got a point? Going to bring up something Rocket said on an occasion where he was talking out of his ass?

How many bullets it takes to kill a zombie is a balance question. If you think 1000 is fine and dandy then continue to disagree.

[/quote']

It takes three bullets with most guns, and only one with stronger weapons such as the AKM and any .45 ACP handgun.

[generationvii 6]

Go back to it? When did it stop being a sandbox survival game?

Rocket used the term "balance" and you're freaking out?

Such little faith in the guy who made all of this possible so far, sad.

[revenoff 1]

sounds like you're too concerned with semantics

also ur a faget die in a cancer fire

[i have been warned for this post - Ubi]

[TheGoldElite 0]

I agree 100%, I hope to god he doesn't lose touch with the sandbox aspect. I haven't been quite able to put my finger on it but yeah, I hope he doesn't make it too gamey, as it's often been said that DayZ is an "antigame" of sorts.

Your points are made very well, we shouldn't aim to convenience everyone just because they know games with similar features, such as group spawning etc.

I think Rocket should make a sandbox for people to play in, not a game for people to win.

---

Yeah' date=' got a point? Going to bring up something Rocket said on an occasion where he was talking out of his ass?

How many bullets it takes to kill a zombie is a balance question. If you think 1000 is fine and dandy then continue to disagree.

[/quote']

It takes three bullets with most guns, and only one with stronger weapons such as the AKM and any .45 ACP handgun.

Balance doesn't come into it for this game, or Arma. If thats what it takes to kill, then thats what it'll be. If the original idea is tougher zombies, it will be turned up, and that's that. Arma isn't balanced, it realistic, outside of respawns etc that are nessecary.

[eggmoe 1]

Go back to it? When did it stop being a sandbox survival game?

Rocket used the term "balance" and you're freaking out?

Such little faith in the guy who made all of this possible so far' date=' sad.

[/quote']

Like I said, the game in its current state plays different than how I liked it. Its not a lack of faith, its an understanding of how much he is juggling right now with thousands of players and tons of issues. I'm trying to keep it clear what this is. I am very appreciative of what he has created (maybe the fact that I made a large concerned post about the game didn't clarify that)

Now stop being an ignorant douche

[generationvii 6]

Go back to it? When did it stop being a sandbox survival game?

Rocket used the term "balance" and you're freaking out?

Such little faith in the guy who made all of this possible so far' date=' sad.

[/quote']

Like I said, the game in its current state plays different than how I liked it. Its not a lack of faith, its an understanding of how much he is juggling right now with thousands of players and tons of issues. I'm trying to keep it clear what this is. I am very appreciative of what he has created (maybe the fact that I made a large concerned post about the game didn't clarify that)

Now stop being an ignorant douche

Take it easy Sally, i was only pointing out you're exaggerating a tad bit.

[Hawk24 94]

Recently, I've felt that everything has become a bit gamey. Everything is starting to seem convenient. I have even see certain posts where you used the words balancing or rebalancing in regards to loot or spawns, which are words I didn't think you'd use. Tweak the numbers to how you want, don't balance.

Survival sandbox doesn't translate to "no balance allowed"

If zombies would see you from 1km, hear you from 1km, warped towards you at 100km/h and would kill you with one hit....would you just shrug it off and say "OH WELL IT'S A SANDBOX SURVIVAL, IT DOESN'T NEED THE WORD BALANCE"?

Tweaking balance doesn't result in a casualized open world L4D, take off that tinfoil hat

One of my biggest issues is the awareness of death and respawns. It was only a matter of time, sure, but the acceptance and abuse of 'oh I'll just spawn somewhere else' is lame.

And where exactly is that a "new feature" that has been "added for convenience" making DayZ more "gamey"?

Your point remains unclear

[nahholmes 0]

What are you talking about? I must be missing something.

The game is more gritty and sandbox now than it was before. What experience are you missing? What is less rare now than before that is ruining the game?

I think part of the reason a lot of people are starting to get "tired" of the game is the lack of an "end game" for most people. You get better at the game, and you know the map, you know where to get the good gear, and every time you die you get re-equiped a little quicker and easier than the time before.

For a lot of people starting out the best part is exploring and digging around and finding cool new gear. It gets easier every time you do it. Eventually gearing up is not a challenge anymore and you have seen most of the interesting parts of the map. Now that the part of the game that initially drew you in isn't a challenge you are left to your own devices to find a challenge. Gearing up is really the only challenge built into the game that everyone is experiencing the same. After you have all your shiney stuff it's up to you to decide what to do with it whether that's camp out in the woods and hunt and not interact with anyone, or fix cars, or join a clan, or PvP, or even start a crew and hunt down other clans, sit in the woods for 40 minutes waiting to snipe someone, kill zeds for no reason, help weaker players, terrorize Cherno, whatever, that's the part you have to decide.

So basically I think a lot of the people saying the game is getting boring have broken the skill barrier of getting equipment and lack the imagination to make their own good time.

I don't think things like super fast zeds who kill you in two hits or super rare food drops are the answer. As they add more features it will only increase the options for late game (I personally am pretty stoked for traps).

Nothing about the game is "gamey" at this point though and I've seen no plans to make it so. You can literally do whatever you want within the engine, there are no barriers or missions/objectives to complete, the game is what you make it. Balancing things in the game makes sense from every angle, it has nothing to do with being sandbox vs. becoming an FPS. You play in the sandbox according to the rules of the game engine and balancing is just a way of making sure those rules make sense.

Above all the game should be fun though. No one wants to play a game that is walkthrough easy where every house has an AK or so hard you loot every building in Cherno and find one can of beans and nothing else and zombies kill in one hit with lasers shooting out of their mouth. Balance is finding the right combination of challenge without crossing into unfun consistent frustration. Never forget that the word balance can also mean things which make the game harder.

[Cartz 21]

What nahholmes said, basically....

I don't understand what the OP is on about, its like he thinks that balancing means making the game CoD with a side of zombies. Balance isn't adding a killcam and KDR...

Its about finding the right spot for zombie aggression so that they present a challenge for old players without devouring every new player that logs in. Its about making sure that the old player that knows all the loot spawns on the map still faces a challenge to kit himself out, while making sure that the newbie doesn't run around with a flashlight for 6 hours before finding his first gun.

Trust me, this game is still the definition of sandbox. There are 0 objectives other than those you create for yourself. There are 0 limitations other than the map size for what you can do and where you can go. There are limited toys in the sandbox, thats about it.

Personally, I look forward to the future sandbox possibilities. I'm waiting for the day weapon mods drop separate from the guns, and maybe don't even spawn in the same locations as the guns they're used for. I'm waiting for ways of nourishment other than steaks and cans of beans (fishing anyone?). I'm excited for more deployables, more non-military grade hardware, the occasional forest zombie to break up the monotony of travel... and anything else rocket can concoct.

Basically, I want more toys in my sandbox.

[U.B.C.S. Ravin 326]

To be honest, if drinks and food went back to being super rare like in 1.7.1.2. I would love the game, it really forced me out of my tent to go hunt for food and other players.

[Cormac McCarthy 15]

This is my opinion on the direction of the DayZ development and plea to return it to that of a Sandbox experience and not a *game*. See' date=' a game is something you can win. A sandbox is something you can come to and *play* in. You take from it what you want. Its an experience that is visceral, memorable. That's why this game (we use game as a convenient term to call it) offers something nothing else can.

To rocket: You already know this, and I'm not saying you've lost touch. I just want to remind you where we are.

I enjoy testing, and fully understand alpha and implementing new features changes everything on a weekly basis now almost. However, when the game had fewer features and was more stable, I had some of the most moving experiences from any game I've ever played. The immersion and intesity takes you away from the fact that you're behind a mouse and keyboard. It's addicting.

Keep in mind, I'm not a roleplayer, or a hardcore addict, or a casual. I'm an enthusiest.

Recently, I've felt that everything has become a bit gamey. Everything is starting to seem convenient. I have even see certain posts where you used the words balancing or rebalancing in regards to loot or spawns, which are words I didn't think you'd use. Tweak the numbers to how you want, don't balance.

One of my biggest issues is the awareness of death and respawns. It was only a matter of time, sure, but the acceptance and abuse of 'oh I'll just spawn somewhere else' is lame.

In my opinion, features are good, structure is bad. Some people just like structure. They like being told where to go or how to play. Not you and i, though. I'm not saying make it [i']harder, just make it inconvenient.

That's how I feel. If anyone else feels the same, show your support by posting here.

Thanks.

i love you

[nahholmes 0]

To be honest' date=' if drinks and food went back to being super rare like in 1.7.1.2. I would love the game, it really forced me out of my tent to go hunt for food and other players.

[/quote']

So you need the game to force you to leave your tent in the wilderness and interact with the rest of the server?

This is the feeling I get when a lot of people ask for the game to be harder or "more sandbox like" whatever that means in this context. It couldn't get much more open at this point in development. The game is so open ended it literally allows you to hide in the woods for infinite amounts of time and bore yourself to death. Don't ask for stuff like insanely low food drops, zombies in the forest, or super insane difficulty if the game has gotten boring. 99% of the time it's probably your own fault. Most of these people don't want sandbox they want the never ending mission of "loot towns for food and water."

Let me tell you guys something that may blow your minds. You can loot towns and kill people without having to arbitrarily spend 90% of the game looking for super rare groceries. Having rare food drops past a certain point doesn't make the game more "sandbox" it makes it less, because you spend more time FORCED to loot towns for beans whether you want to or not. It's not more open ended that way, when food is impossible to find eating/drinking is just a game mission in disguise. Imagine if we went back to 1.7.2 drops and the only difference was every time you ran out of food and got low on hunger the game flashed a message "MISSION: You have 15 minutes to find food and eat it." Then when you ate it flashed "MISSION COMPLETED: Eat food." People would collectively shit their drawers and say the game is ruined, but take away the message and that is effectively what some people are asking for.

You are in a sandbox and you are saying "I wish someone would come kick over my sand castle every 20 minutes, I get tired of building on the same pile." You guys are so used to normal games that give you directions and arrows to point you to the fun part you don't even realize you can knock down your own castle and build it again. This is the reason 99.99% of games are made with objectives, missions, and scheduled tasks. Now it seems like the same people who claim they hate that about every other game in the universe and will throw a shit fit at every suggestion they don't see as "real" or "sandbox" enough will come on the forums and ask for arbitrarily hard tasks that everyone will be force to complete endlessly. Whether it's super hard zed, rare food hunting, or starting the game with nothing but a ball point pen and a rolled up tissue with a broken leg and thirsty. (for the record this last sentence is not a rant about starting with no gun, just the people that come here and say it's still not enough and you shouldn't have backpacks and crap like that, they will never truly be happy either way.)

I think I finally realized what Rocket meant when he said DayZ was an anti-game...

[execpro22 128]

I really do get sick of hearing these hardcore elitist screaming bloody murder everytime Rocket changes something in the game to give you more options.

I mean come on! This game is in ALPHA right now. You can't possibly think what your playing at this very moment is how the finished product is going to look.

I swear if you guys had it your way this game would of stayed at 1.6 and you would of kept it with bugs and all.

Games evolve.......

Adding features does not make this mod too "gamey" as if that were a derogatory term anyway.

I hope you do realise you are a "GAMER" . Thats not something to be ashamed of or use in a derogatory way.

[eggmoe 1]

Damn. Some big ass posts in here. Wish I wasn't on my phone at work x.x

What I mean is I feel like there's some sort of pressure to make sure everyone gets food, and everyone gets a weapon and supplies within their first 30 minutes of walking through 3 buildings.

I'll look at some of the bigger posts later

Edit: I tried my best to express my thoughts delicately, but it seems that people that agree, fully listen, and those against nitpick certain fragments of what I said, not really understanding what I tried to say.