Realism vs bullshit

[Oliva 2]

Hey there...

Just decided to start this thread because there are some people here that just don't understand what we mean when we talk about realism. They are always throwing the same arguments.

We're not comparing it to the real life, where you die once, you don't cook a meat in 3 secs, you don't fix bones with just morphine and a lot of others statements.

We're setting it up to the game concept of realism, not the life concept of realism.

Using a simple example. Talking about the Star wars universe.

If someone throws another one right in the air, hell, that's real in the SW concept, but if someone turns himself into hulk, that's bullshit. Both are bullshit in real life, but they are realistic in their own universes.

If someone finds a genius lamp to have 3 wishes, that's a fuckin big bullshit.

If someone builds a giant moon to kick everyones asses, that's possible in that universe. But that same person, can't just turn another one into a sheep or a frog.

So, the game is supposed to be real, but with some limitations to fit a gameplay. Could be MUCH harder, but if it becomes as hard as real life in all it's aspects, people would just shut down the pc because life is already hard enough.

Got it?

[evotech 0]

What's your point.

[Oliva 2]

What's your point.

my point is to people stop using all the same words when we use the term "realism".

I think the game could be harder and still enjoyable.

[eggmoe 1]

Its called suspension of disbelief. We put aside what is real to accept what this universe is telling us is real. Things dont have to be hyperrealistic, just realistic to this universe to keep us immersed. If it doesnt fit, it breaks our immersion/experience

[Oliva 2]

Its called suspension of disbelief. We put aside what is real to accept what this universe is telling us is real. Things dont have to be hyperrealistic' date=' just realistic to this universe to keep us immersed. If it doesnt fit, it breaks our immersion/experience

[/quote']

My limited english skills doesn't allow me to say it better.

[Danger Boy 1]

But some people do use the "realism as in real life" defence, for example: "yeah but in real life you couldn't do X so we shouldn't be able to do X either".

Not all of us saying "no" to "realism" are assuming you mean "real life"...Please don't generalize.

I know that not ALL of you talking about realism are talking about "game-realism" (as you state in your first sentence), and similarly not ALL of us defending against realism are saying it in response to "real-life" statements.

I'm not for or against realism (whichever version you mean). I'm simply for "more fun gameplay".

[Wolfskin75 1]

I think this game is on the edge of starting to become actual work. It's super hard right now.

[Jorden 63]

I think some people forget realism against "HURR I WANT THE MOD HARDER".

I'm ok with how meat cooks, im ok with the bandaging system.

This isn't fucking Trauma Center. Go play that if you want a damn surgery simulator.

This isn't fucking Cooking Mama. Go play that if you want to learn how to cook a steak.

[DesertOfSand 0]

Realism and bullshit gameplay do have a gray area, though, as most things tend to.

At what point is realism sacrificed for better gameplay, or at what point is more streamlined gameplay breaking the immersion of the reality simulation?

A good example of this would be Global Chatting.

Whether you agree with it or not, server-wide chat is something that is a gray line between reality and bullshit gameplay, otherwise there wouldn't be a nearly 20 page discussion about it.

So the real problem is not classifying these problems, but analyzing why it's a problem, and whether to and how to solve them.

[eggmoe 1]

I think some people forget realism against "HURR I WANT THE MOD HARDER".

I'm ok with how meat cooks' date=' im ok with the bandaging system.

This isn't fucking [b']Trauma Center. Go play that if you want a damn surgery simulator.

This isn't fucking Cooking Mama. Go play that if you want to learn how to cook a steak.

It's better than that; this is Trauma Mama

[hackerslasher 1]

Realism...you do realise that there's zombies in this mod? ;)

Seriously - unless the people that play this have an IQ the same as their shoe size then I'm sure they "get it". Everyone understands that the mod is trying to emulate a zombie filled post apocalyptic world where you have to try and survive. But at the same time it has to playable and worth bothering with otherwise people will stop playing it before it even reaches the beta stage.

It's a balancing act from the powers that be, that neither I nor you can predict where it will lead...

[Sinaz20 0]

I like to think of it this way--

There's expectations of realism...

And there's realistic expectations...

There are those people who think they want a 1:1 scale USA in GTA, and that having to drive between Los Angeles and Las Vegas in realtime would be ultimate. (Realism)

And those people who understand that driving for 4.5 hours is not something fun to simulate as a past time. (Realistic)

Dealing with the consequences of broken bones, infection, setting up fires to cook meat, etc... that's all elements of realism...

But they are modeled in a way that we can be realistically expected to put up with them and still consider them fun aspects of a challenging simulation/game.

Basically, when realism can be a rewarding hurdle to your skills, they belong in the game. Bullet drop, stealth, lighting mechanics...

When the realism inspires tedium, it ceases to be recreational-- that is, suddenly the player begins to think about things they'd rather be doing. Having to crawl huge distance to get to a destination unseen, being forced to face combative situations with no offensive means to GET offensive means, sitting down for 5 minutes to eat a can of beans. This kind of realism doesn't belong in a game.

For every potential fail situation, there needs to be some mechanic to allow you to overcome it, and ideally, it should be balanced to keep the player engaged and interested in overcoming it.