[SA] 20% chance that gun jams when firing below 50% weapon health

[m.w. vindicator 880]

Clearing a jam on a pistol takes a few seconds, not 30.  I am speaking from experience

[harley001 315]

Jamming should be dependent on the weapon.  Not just weapon health.  

 

The ak47 will almost never jam.  (they is why militia groups use them.  Easy to use, requires little training and maintenance.) Seriously.  In Afghanistan they actually DUG UP ak47s that were from the cold war and they still worked.

 

A m16 will jam in bad condition.  A m16 was made for a well trained and organized army.  It was designed for professional soldiers who can clean and take care of their weapons, A m16 rarely jams if its in good health.  The myth that the m16 always jams is just a leftover from Vietnam when the m16 was first used.    

 

The reason I pointed out those two guns was to show how every gun is different.  Some jam all the time.  Some never jam.  Some need maintenance.  Some just need you to make sure there is no dirt in the barrel. 

 

Also leave King of Kong alone...  Everyone makes a bad post once a while. (I have made several I regret)  ;) 

Edited November 7, 2013 by harley001

[ybm 111]

Jamming should be dependent on the weapon.  Not just weapon health.  

 

The ak47 will almost never jam.  (they is why militia groups use them.  Easy to use, requires little training and maintenance.) Seriously.  In Afghanistan they actually DUG UP ak47s that were from the cold war and they still worked.

 

A m16 will jam in bad condition.  A m16 was made for a well trained and organized army.  It was designed for professional soldiers who can clean and take care of their weapons, A m16 rarely jams if its in good health.  The myth that the m16 always jams is just a leftover from Vietnam when the m16 was first used.    

 

The reason I pointed out those two guns was to show how every gun is different.  Some jam all the time.  Some never jam.  Some need maintenance.  Some just need you to make sure there is no dirt in the barrel. 

 

Also leave King of Kong alone...  Everyone makes a bad post once a while. (I have made several I regret)  ;) 

I don't know what "professional army" you served in where your m16/4 didn't jam, but here in the U.S. army I can tell you it's no myth. They jam all the fucking time, and I'll tell you why. When the army adopted the m16/4 they wanted the rifles and magazines made in bulk. As you may know, things are made by the lowest bidder and the magazines don't fit well in the rifle issued because they aren't made from the same manufacturer. So when you put the mag in, there's a bit of wiggle room and that causes more jams than you would think. The reason why civilian AR-15s are so expensive is because they are made to a higher standard along with the magazines that actually fit right. So "A m16 rarely jams if its in good health" is simply not true and it's based on real life experience with my m4.

[AP_Norris 1018]

Clearing a jam on a pistol takes a few seconds, not 30.  I am speaking from experience

Depends how bad you're gun is.

[Dchil 829]

I think ammo should be more of a deciding factor than the condition of the weapon. This should be followed by the the condition of the magazine and then the receiver. The stock(if fitted), the hand guard, the optics and the barrel should have little if any effect on the possibility of jamming, but should effect accuracy. Unless the barrel is destroyed and even then the weapon should not be fired as it will be dangerous, unsafe and a waste of ammo as it won't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside if the bullet even leaves the barrel.

 

Bad ammo is the leading cause of problems in semi auto weapons, followed by bad mags. Revolvers/non semi autos have less problems but they still happen and ammo still can cause them but major problems are more likely to kill their reliability, like broken extractors or worn parts.

 

TL:DR? ammo should cause jams, then mags, then the reciever but nothing else really. all this is IMO.

[AP_Norris 1018]

I think ammo should be more of a deciding factor than the condition of the weapon. This should be followed by the the condition of the magazine and then the receiver. The stock(if fitted), the hand guard, the optics and the barrel should have little if any effect on the possibility of jamming, but should effect accuracy. Unless the barrel is destroyed and even then the weapon should not be fired as it will be dangerous, unsafe and a waste of ammo as it won't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside if the bullet even leaves the barrel.

 

Bad ammo is the leading cause of problems in semi auto weapons, followed by bad mags. Revolvers/non semi autos have less problems but they still happen and ammo still can cause them but major problems are more likely to kill their reliability, like broken extractors or worn parts.

 

TL:DR? ammo should cause jams, then mags, then the reciever but nothing else really. all this is IMO.

If you're gun is wet? Jam chance goes up significantly.

If you're prone crawling a lot yore jam goes up a bit more, noticeably on dirt (not grass, dirt/ forest floor) and the sandy beech.

If you've been shot maybe you're bullets can get dirty/ bloody like on the hurt locker.

If you're gun gets shot in the receiver, fixable but temporarily out of operation? in that situation your sidearm would be helpful or you would drop the gun & put your hands up.

[AP_Norris 1018]

Gun cleaning as well, it might spawn dirty, it might get dirty after lots of firing, it might get dirty rolling around in the dirt/ sand.

[dulix11 731]

I never directly called th OP "Ignorant"

 

For the love of my brain cells STAHP

 

OP, I like the concept, but 20% is waaayyy too high.

 

Besides, a gun doesn't have to be degraded to jam. You can get a gun and have it for 2 weeks and it might jam.

[AP_Norris 1018]

For the love of my brain cells STAHP

 

OP, I like the concept, but 20% is waaayyy too high.

 

Besides, a gun doesn't have to be degraded to jam. You can get a gun and have it for 2 weeks and it might jam.

It's about keeping it clean, you don't want a whole lot of burnt powder in you're chamber and barrel alike, guns just work better when they're clean.

More commonly when in military use with the stress of a battlefield you can also get blood, dirt, sand/ just about anything in you're receiver and bullets causing jams.

Again it depends mostly on cleanliness, older guns may jam more because of design and how enclosed they are.

Revolvers rarely ever jam because of how simple their mechanism is, I think things like that should come through.

[Dchil 829]

If you're gun is wet? Jam chance goes up significantly.

If you're prone crawling a lot yore jam goes up a bit more, noticeably on dirt (not grass, dirt/ forest floor) and the sandy beech.

If you've been shot maybe you're bullets can get dirty/ bloody like on the hurt locker.

If you're gun gets shot in the receiver, fixable but temporarily out of operation? in that situation your sidearm would be helpful or you would drop the gun & put your hands up.

A fully wet gun will run okay till it dries out, then it needs to be reoiled. You are f*cked if your ammo gets water in it cause then it won't fire till it dries out, which ain't happening anytime soon.

Don't stick your gun in the dirt, any military will drill that into you and even then, if you keep flooding it with oil and it will keep running... to an extent.

Ammo problem, may cause problems with feeding but blood will have to conjeal to be a problem (bits of flesh are another story and iirc that was the main problem in the hurt locker) which takes time.

A direct hit to the receiver will probably warp the entire receiver, putting it completely out of action except in unusual cases. anywhere else vital to the gun will either render it useless or severely limit it's capability and safety. So it isn't a temporary thing unless you get a new receiver.

[Karmaterror 982]

I love this idea....ya want a real KOS deterant here it is! Only id go further, chance for jam yep, but also chance of misfire. The misfire actually causing a small amount of damage to the player. With a very small chance to actually cause a bleed. I wanna hear about bandits dying because there uber sniper misfired....caused a bleed....and they had no bandage :). The helpless costal bambie would have no idea he just technically killed a bandit....or did the bandit kill himself with his evil ways lol.

 

This would also give heros something else to think about when dealing with zeds. I guess I just feel that taking that shot on a helpless bambie could have dire consiquences....and could even kill you, even though that's not very likely :)

[AP_Norris 1018]

A fully wet gun will run okay till it dries out, then it needs to be reoiled. You are f*cked if your ammo gets water in it cause then it won't fire till it dries out, which ain't happening anytime soon.

Don't stick your gun in the dirt, any military will drill that into you and even then, if you keep flooding it with oil and it will keep running... to an extent.

Ammo problem, may cause problems with feeding but blood will have to conjeal to be a problem (bits of flesh are another story and iirc that was the main problem in the hurt locker) which takes time.

A direct hit to the receiver will probably warp the entire receiver, putting it completely out of action except in unusual cases. anywhere else vital to the gun will either render it useless or severely limit it's capability and safety. So it isn't a temporary thing unless you get a new receiver.

I just say temporary and fixable because I'd like to be able to fix my good guns.

But I was thinking more like a hole in the mag feeder, stopping you from putting a new mag in maybe exploding so some ammo aswell?

[mercules 1290]

I don't know what "professional army" you served in where your m16/4 didn't jam, but here in the U.S. army I can tell you it's no myth. They jam all the fucking time, and I'll tell you why. When the army adopted the m16/4 they wanted the rifles and magazines made in bulk. As you may know, things are made by the lowest bidder and the magazines don't fit well in the rifle issued because they aren't made from the same manufacturer. So when you put the mag in, there's a bit of wiggle room and that causes more jams than you would think. The reason why civilian AR-15s are so expensive is because they are made to a higher standard along with the magazines that actually fit right. So "A m16 rarely jams if its in good health" is simply not true and it's based on real life experience with my m4.

 

From what I've been told by various buddies that have served there are a few manufactured magazines that work really well and don't jam but the U.S. military doesn't use them or issue them. I can't remember if it was cost or a contract or what it was that forced them into that decision but I've also been told that some troops buy their own magazines and swap them in for their issued ones when allowed. Why? Because it is their ass when the gun jams at the wrong time.

[Dchil 829]

I just say temporary and fixable because I'd like to be able to fix my good guns.

But I was thinking more like a hole in the mag feeder, stopping you from putting a new mag in maybe exploding so some ammo aswell?

Rounds rarely go off due to brute force being applied anywhere other than the primer. They explode even less, in fact even when put in a fire they don't "explode" per say but go off normally most of the time.

A hit to the magwell will

a) destroy the mag, permanently.

b) put a nice big hole in the magwell which will warp it beyond use and throw bits of metal into the receiver, which will have to be removed or it will kill the rest of the receiver with time.

c) make it really hard to remove the destroyed mag due to warpage

d) destroy some ammo, but 99% of the time not make the ammo blow up.

[Dchil 829]

I love this idea....ya want a real KOS deterant here it is! Only id go further, chance for jam yep, but also chance of misfire. The misfire actually causing a small amount of damage to the player. With a very small chance to actually cause a bleed. I wanna hear about bandits dying because there uber sniper misfired....caused a bleed....and they had no bandage :). The helpless costal bambie would have no idea he just technically killed a bandit....or did the bandit kill himself with his evil ways lol.

 

This would also give heros something else to think about when dealing with zeds. I guess I just feel that taking that shot on a helpless bambie could have dire consiquences....and could even kill you, even though that's not very likely :)

Misfires are a type of jam, often called a failure to fire. A misfire is typically a round not going off first go or a hang fire (where the round takes some time to go off after a primer hit).

Misfires rarely cause an explosion like in a cartoon, and the closest real life version of that is a double charge, which is mainly a mistake while rounds are being reloaded (another thing that should be added, Reloading spent rounds) and almost never happens with commercial or military ammo and if it did he manufacturer would have it's ass sued off.

 

Also, inadvertent double post.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Dchil

[AP_Norris 1018]

Rounds rarely go off due to brute force being applied anywhere other than the primer. They explode even less, in fact even when put in a fire they don't "explode" per say but go off normally most of the time.

A hit to the magwell will

a) destroy the mag, permanently.

b) put a nice big hole in the magwell which will warp it beyond use and throw bits of metal into the receiver, which will have to be removed or it will kill the rest of the receiver with time.

c) make it really hard to remove the destroyed mag due to warpage

d) destroy some ammo, but 99% of the time not make the ammo blow up.

Ammo in a fire blows the casings up, they did it on mythbusters.

They even blew up a .50 in an oven.

I've also seen a vid where a guy fires and blows up an armed forces members mag, then he gets knocked out and falls down some stairs.

[AP_Norris 1018]

Ammo in a fire blows the casings up, they did it on mythbusters.

They even blew up a .50 in an oven.

I've also seen a vid where a guy fires and blows up an armed forces members mag, then he gets knocked out and falls down some stairs.

It might have, gone down the barrel blocking the bullet though.

[TholaisGeren 0]

And the reason I say this is because the weapon degrading over time is completely useless for SA. Why? I have used stock AR-15 (Civi M4 variant) barrels in competitions a lot in the past. And it takes me a LOT more rounds to wear down anything in the gun that will ever be available to you in SA. I do agree with gun treatment/cleaning 100%. But if my barrel wears down just from putting 20 or so mags through, then I will "kindly" ask dean to replace my plastic barrel. The only thing I think I would agree with in full is adding in dangers of barrel heat. For example, in the DayZ Mod, you can Take a M240 Bravo and hold the trigger for the whole clip to run dry. Can you do that in real life? Sure, but you'll warp the shit out of the barrel. Although I can only see this being viable to LMG's, unless Dean adds C-mags, Drum-mags, etc... (which I hope he does). 

I agree 100% Shadow, like YBM said, it is usually mag malfunctions double feed/ etc. Although, I do think weapon deg. is not useless just would have to depend on weapon because AK's are easier to maintain than M4/M16 Colts , Ak's can be freshly dug from a muddy grave and if you knock it around good enough it should still shoot, Colts on the other hand need to be super-clean. For example M4/M16 models will jam, double, and triple feed if you let carbon build up around the 'extractor pin',this pin helps eject spent rounds. AK's dont suffer this because there is a shallow magazine well as opposedto Colts , also Ak's are more open, Colts(M4/M16) are more compact inside so that is why they function worse with dirt/carbon inside.

I would like to see two things in standalone i hope its not left out:

Ammo Types, for weapons.

Conversion Kits(Certain Weapons).

 

Now Weapon Degradation would take awhile and depend on the weapon(s) condition, whether or not your *new* rifle is from a muddy corpse or someone who is rarely seen and takes care of their kit to ensure their survival. Some weapons may have been in terrible conditions and in use in that condition by their prev. owner , this degrades it twice as bad, better owners take care of weapons better . Now if you're picking up a weapon from a loot spawn it would depend on the weapons spawn condition .If it is a players weapon it may have been unclean, shot as well as the weapons owner,or just falling apart from jump. As you fire rounds down any weapons barrel the rounds slowly degrade said barrel with each shot, ammo variety would also be a factor in this but for now lets focus on condition.

Next it would depend on the weapons environment, M4s/M16s cant fire in water. The weapons upper(reciever) would explode into the users upper facial region. Aks dont suffer this problem, although certain weapons like AKs and Colts(m4/M16) would only get off 1 round before you have problems a Heckler&Koch M416(othervariantsaswell) can be submerged and fire a whole mag no prob, seen it before in a video. Aks like i said work well with mud, Colts not so. So it all really depends on your current weapon condition whether or not you fire for long periods of time without stopping, as you fire rounds the barrel expands from heat and your shot grouping will begin to 'float' around as the barrels expands. Once again, this is for long bursts,not controlled fire. As far as ammo types,it would depend on your weapon Category; Firearm, Shotgun, AR, Sniper,SMG,LMG and some of those types would be: Tracer(magnesium, this leaves a trace after each tracer round might be green, red, depends on nationality of weapon/rounds . But tracer magnesium degrades the rifling of a weapon (once again very minor deg will take good dayZ before you notice changes)Red tracers(USA) green tracers (MotherRussia) . Every round will do this to every weapon (ball,FMJ,BallisticHollowPoint(BHP), and matchgrade included, just know tracer rounds degrade a bit more than these because of the magnesium. Now each round degrades a weapon minorly because as it is fired it creates pressure, this preesure allows carbon and lead(from bullet head) to build up in the weapons rifling over time this build up will cause *spin drift* which is the the fired round being affected by the buildup in your barrels rifling.

 

 I also think certain weapons that can be converted should have conversion kits to allow for customization in weapons, for example :556 Colt M4/M16 can be converted to 22/223 same weapon,new reciever. Maybe there can be some way players can machine their weapon(s) and weapon parts to further customize their kit. Lightweight partsor more durable parts for weight balance or weapons reliance. Once again this would on depend on manufacturer of weapon and weapon design/category . Aks have good stopping power anywhere from point blank to about 400m if you're familiar with the weapon, Colt M4 maybe 500m further with familiarization of course, and M16 600m plus, Weapon efficiency (once again) depends on the users familiariazation with the weapon and care for the weapon. Colt M4/M16s though have good accuracy/range ,where AK 47s have a big round with low powder , so the round tumbles towards its target which tends to ricochet in the target or just tear right through leaving massive trauma and big bullet holes. M4/M16s have more powder(IE AK 762x39,Colt 556x45) this round will practically jelly the surrounding tissue of its target because it has higher velocity these rounds have good probability of passing through 1 target and into another behind them, whereas Ak 762 fragments or just digs into its target , depending on your range from target AK bullets begin to tumble after first 150m out of barrel.

 

My point is weapon degradation would be something that depends on your current weapon condition if it is bad, it will take a few hours of *tinkering* with it, to get your weapon golden again. If it is kept in a guncase or proper place then you wont need to worry to bad. The way the weapon is used will also determine how it functions; whether or not it is used on land, in water , in mud . this could either kill the operator like a Colt M4/M16 in water or just leave your weapon in a state it cant function from, like carbon build up resulting in jams, doubl,triple feeds. And before you consider these it depends on the weapons category and manufacturer. Certain Waffe(Weapon) Smiths make better weapons Ruger,H&K,Sig Suaer which are all a good balance of reliability and durability ,BUT still need to be maintained to ensure these to the fullest toallow for their greater accuracy. Other weapons with more rugged design by their manufacturers like AKs are very reliable but usually have less range or accuracy.

 

Also there could be some way of machine/manufacturing your own weapons/ammo/accesories to allow for more unique weaponry for each player. Maybe you want to replace your Colt AR15s Ballistic stock and barrel guard to wood or something more solid you could just Smith your own parts and have a better weapon. Not sure if this has been considered(any of all this) but these are all factor for weapon deg.  the key to it is lasting long enough witha weapon to have it degrade bad.

 

PS great to have internet again and be able to get on DAYZ!! MAKIN'BACON!

[DropBearChick 1217]

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