Overcoming resource constraints to allow server-managed large scale zombie migration

[mariuslv@gmail.com 0]

Abstract:

Server-managed migration of many hundred zombies could be feasible if zombies out of visual range of a player are handled as invisible "virtual" zombies with highly simplified pathfinding, no line of sight-calculations etc.

Disclaimer:

I must make clear that my understanding both of programming in general of the specific challenges of working with the ARMA 2 engine is rudimentary at best. I am likely to be fundamentally mistaken about things. I should also point out that this is NOT an original idea of mine, but is inspired by a similar solution the developers of Project Zomboid came up with to handle large numbers of migrating zombies in their own game.

Details:

As has been pointed out by many, DayZ would offer a more immersive and believable zombie experience if zombies could migrate freely around the map instead of simply spawning predictably and perpetually in the vicinity of certain buildings. The benefits of free-roaming zombies are many. Some of them are:

- By dint of being persistent, zombies would seem more REAL (you know they are where they are because they came from somewhere, not because they recently spawned out of thin air - you also know that if you kill one, another won't simply spawn in its place)

- Zeds would not be confined only to certain areas (free-roaming zeds or even entire hordes could theoretically show up anywhere at any time)

- Areas of any size could be cleared of and protected from zombies (since they could only migrate into any area from the outside).

The obvious problem with having zombies migrate is that it requires them to go about their business even when there are no players nearby. Because of the resource intensive nature of the task of handling zombie pathfinding, line of sight calculations, hearing and other behavior, having the game server manage many hundred zombies simultaneously is unfeasible. This is why zombies are currently spawned and controlled client side.

But what if, rather than managing fully featured zombies, the server simply managed hundreds of invisible "virtual" zombies with extremely simplified A.I? These zombies would be blind and have only rudimentary pathfinding and hearing. When a player would come close enough, such a zombie would spawn as a "real" zombie, to be handled by the client as per today. It would again despawn to be replaced by a server-controlled "virtual" zombie when players leave the area. With this hybrid solution, the heavy lifting of calculating advanced zombie behavior would be done by the clients in the same way as now, but the server could still manage and direct map-wide zombie migration.

I imagine "virtual" zombies migrating from the north or northwest towards areas with many players in them (large cities, airfields etc.), perhaps taking detours to investigate loud noises such as gunfire and explosions, and also gravitating somewhat towards each other to randomly form clusters or hordes. However, the details of what rules the migration of "virtual" zombies should follow is really for a different discussion. For now, I just wanted to see if the very concept of "virtual" zombies makes sense, and whether what I have outlined is feasible with regards to resource constraints or possible engine limitations.

Thanks for reading :)

EDIT 1: Removed allcaps subject line (sorry!)

[xBlackCat 1]

I like the idea a lot, my only question would be where the zombies spawn from once this system is implemented.

I feel like it is important for zombies to keep the pressure on in towns and cities, but such a system would allow a large group to force the zombies out and keep them out, with little threat to looting after that.

Using such a system in addition to the game as it is right now seems like the best way, having buildings remain hostile with roaming hordes as well.

[Jono (DayZ) 1]

Can the zombies not spawn off the map? Not necessarily right at the map edge where the vegetation stops, but to the north/west of the maps that most people have access to online. If no one's around, no one's going to see them spawning and wail about it.

Actually, if they get caught up in a zombie horde spawnfest than it's their own stupid fault for lurking in no man's land :)

Perhaps the infection has spread and now loads of zombies are just roaming the country looking for prey.

[Oompa 25]

This seems like a great idea.

I do see some problems however:

- With a reat deal of effort, too large of an area could be cordoned off from zombies (the whole of Cherno/Elektro,NW Airport) etc.

- Would player placed ostructions even work? They aren't on the map, and might as such be more difficult to take into account for 'remote pathfinding' of 'virtual' zombies. Resulting in zombies swarming through defences when no players are close.

- running zombies would make it pretty much impossible to deal with these zombie hordes. They'd have to be more traditional I would think, as in always being slow, requiring headshots and being far more numerous.

[xBlackCat 1]

This seems like a great idea.

I do see some problems however:

- With a reat deal of effort' date=' too large of an area could be cordoned off from zombies (the whole of Cherno/Elektro,NW Airport) etc.

- Would player placed ostructions even work? They aren't on the map, and might as such be more difficult to take into account for 'remote pathfinding' of 'virtual' zombies. Resulting in zombies swarming through defences when no players are close.

- running zombies would make it pretty much impossible to deal with these zombie hordes. They'd have to be more traditional I would think, as in always being slow, requiring headshots and being far more numerous.

[/quote']

Obstructions shouldnt be too difficult to include as part of the simple pathfinding, depending on how its done.

Hordes would be difficult to fight against for sure, but a massive amount of zombies moans should be a pretty good warning to duck and cover. Would be a way of making zombies a risk even to the end-game players without being too unfair to the new characters.

If you have a good stockpile of ammo, holeing up in a building and shooting down dozens of zombies could be fun.

[mariuslv@gmail.com 0]

I like the idea a lot' date=' my only question would be where the zombies spawn from once this system is implemented.

I feel like it is important for zombies to keep the pressure on in towns and cities, but such a system would allow a large group to force the zombies out and keep them out, with little threat to looting after that.

[/quote']

I am wary of confusing things by attempting to tackle too many issues at once, and so I have chosen in my original post not to make my suggestions too detailed or specific. That being said, you have a point. Now, I don't necessarily think it is a problem that groups of players could secure a town and keep it secured. One might even argue that this would be a really cool feature. However, steps would have to be taken to make sure securing large areas would be a real challenge even for an organized group.

[xBlackCat 1]

I like the idea a lot' date=' my only question would be where the zombies spawn from once this system is implemented.

I feel like it is important for zombies to keep the pressure on in towns and cities, but such a system would allow a large group to force the zombies out and keep them out, with little threat to looting after that.

[/quote']

I am wary of confusing things by attempting to tackle too many issues at once, and so I have chosen in my original post not to make my suggestions too detailed or specific. That being said, you have a point. Now, I don't necessarily think it is a problem that groups of players could secure a town and keep it secured. One might even argue that this would be a really cool feature. However, steps would have to be taken to make sure securing large areas would be a real challenge even for an organized group.

i think it WOULD be cool, but also at odds with the game. To me, the game shouldn't really allow the players to feel like they are in control. That goes beyond survival to me, which is the main focus. Right now, even at end game, you don't usually just walk into town shooting at anything that moves. You sneak in, loot, and get out.

[joikd 25]

I made a thread about roaming zombie packs where I suggested that when packs of 10, 20, 30, etc. zombies are not "seen" by any players, the program treats the pack as just a single unit. This would prevent from having to path for all zombies. When it is "seen" it spawns the pack similar to the current system except with roaming packs it can do it anywhere.

I also suggested switching the majority (or all) of loot spawns to air drops (random and/or player influenced). This would prevent groups from camping an area and sucking up the infinite, magically appearing loot spawns like a vacuum for as long as they wanted.

If the packs were attracted to the air drops, it sets up the interesting possibility of survivors, bandits, and zombies all converging on an air drop at the same time--chaos.

[Oompa 25]

I like the idea a lot' date=' my only question would be where the zombies spawn from once this system is implemented.

I feel like it is important for zombies to keep the pressure on in towns and cities, but such a system would allow a large group to force the zombies out and keep them out, with little threat to looting after that.

[/quote']

I am wary of confusing things by attempting to tackle too many issues at once, and so I have chosen in my original post not to make my suggestions too detailed or specific. That being said, you have a point. Now, I don't necessarily think it is a problem that groups of players could secure a town and keep it secured. One might even argue that this would be a really cool feature. However, steps would have to be taken to make sure securing large areas would be a real challenge even for an organized group.

The remaining issue would be that the secure area would still spawn loot.

But if you included a (loot spawn) to (zombie count in area) ratio, it might work out. (Secure Cherno, sure, go ahead... but no loot for you there.)

[mariuslv@gmail.com 0]

I like the idea a lot' date=' my only question would be where the zombies spawn from once this system is implemented.

I feel like it is important for zombies to keep the pressure on in towns and cities, but such a system would allow a large group to force the zombies out and keep them out, with little threat to looting after that.

[/quote']

I am wary of confusing things by attempting to tackle too many issues at once, and so I have chosen in my original post not to make my suggestions too detailed or specific. That being said, you have a point. Now, I don't necessarily think it is a problem that groups of players could secure a town and keep it secured. One might even argue that this would be a really cool feature. However, steps would have to be taken to make sure securing large areas would be a real challenge even for an organized group.

i think it WOULD be cool, but also at odds with the game. To me, the game shouldn't really allow the players to feel like they are in control. That goes beyond survival to me, which is the main focus. Right now, even at end game, you don't usually just walk into town shooting at anything that moves. You sneak in, loot, and get out.

Perhaps it would be at odds with the spirit of the game. At any rate, I'm not saying that securing an entire large city ought to be a possibility. What I want is for zombies in DayZ to feel more REAL. To me, the current system of fixed zombie spawn areas pumping out zombies ad infinitum detracts from immersion both because it fails to account for the constant and sudden appearance of zombies and because it leaves you with the impression that killing zeds have almost no impact on the game world - not even in your immediate location and not even for a short time. I believe having zombies be more persistent and allowing them to migrate around the game world would do much to increase immersion.

[xBlackCat 1]

I like the idea a lot' date=' my only question would be where the zombies spawn from once this system is implemented.

I feel like it is important for zombies to keep the pressure on in towns and cities, but such a system would allow a large group to force the zombies out and keep them out, with little threat to looting after that.

[/quote']

I am wary of confusing things by attempting to tackle too many issues at once, and so I have chosen in my original post not to make my suggestions too detailed or specific. That being said, you have a point. Now, I don't necessarily think it is a problem that groups of players could secure a town and keep it secured. One might even argue that this would be a really cool feature. However, steps would have to be taken to make sure securing large areas would be a real challenge even for an organized group.

i think it WOULD be cool, but also at odds with the game. To me, the game shouldn't really allow the players to feel like they are in control. That goes beyond survival to me, which is the main focus. Right now, even at end game, you don't usually just walk into town shooting at anything that moves. You sneak in, loot, and get out.

Perhaps it would be at odds with the spirit of the game. At any rate, I'm not saying that securing an entire large city ought to be a possibility. What I want is for zombies in DayZ to feel more REAL. To me, the current system of fixed zombie spawn areas pumping out zombies ad infinitum detracts from immersion both because it fails to account for the constant and sudden appearance of zombies and because it leaves you with the impression that killing zeds have almost no impact on the game world - not even in your immediate location and not even for a short time. I believe having zombies be more persistent and allowing them to migrate around the game world would do much to increase immersion.

I think the balance here is to use both systems, in a less severe way. I like the idea of the roaming zombies, i like the idea of roaming hordes, i just dont think that these alone are enough for the game. Having zombies spawn around buildings at a distance (but not in front of you) along with the chance of zombies wandering in as you are there seems like the best mix of the two.

[FFLink 0]

I was thinking of a swarm idea, very much like the ones mentioned here. This seems a great way to implement it.

I can imagine swarms just moving across set paths (a lot of set paths) to key parts of the map, where people may feel safe.

This would be so interesting to see, and would really add that extra fear if you're off somewhere and start to see a huge swarm nearby.

Imagine a line of hundreds walking at you from a forest (Similar to scene in Walking Dog, for example). That'd be so cool.