Zombies need a big fix. (ragarding run cycle and speed)

[BloodFreak 0]

I've been playing dayz for a few days and so far it's fun as hell. However, there are different thing that REALLY get on my nerve. Some of those things will just take me out of the game ambiance and just make me rage. Also strange that most of those things are zombies in a zombie mod.

-Zombie movement cycle: I know the mod is in alpha and that's the reason this should be number 1 in the fix list. Zombies are warping way too much. They’re coming straight at you and then BOOM is next to you. It's not cause by the lag or anything, it's just that they move in that weird zig zag way. That brings me to point 2.

-Zombie speed: Can't we just get a medium speed level? People always try to run inside building to kill zombie why? Because they’re way too fast and warpy to hit safely outside. If at less they had a run cycle that was nicer. Most of the time, your trying to hit them and then they just warp around you. The point is, too many warpy zombies.

-Zombie number: Best part of this game is when you’re fighting like 2-3 maybe 4 zombies. Over that number GOOD luck if you’re not inside. I mean, I get it we aren't zombie killing machine, but GOD you can't really run away from them, you can't really hit them when they warp. So add 10x the zombie every time you fire once and you get disconnection nuke. Since zombies always spawn in group, I would prefer slower one.

I know this may seem really complaining like, but I really this mod. The things I’m saying, I hope will make it to the mod developer. Me and my friends are just getting tired of zombies spawning everywhere around us, with speed greater than ours, numbers always increasing and to top it warp morphing power. Once you shot once, it's either run outside the city and kill the one that are following, try to hide for 2h or die.

What are your points of view on zombies speed, movement cycle, spawning system and number?

[Moriim 0]

Honestly I wouldn't mind if the zombie movement speed was just reduced wholesale. They run like freaking Olympic champs, not a bunch of recently "dead" Russians with weight issues. If we're going for the infected type zombie rather than the supernatural kind, realistically speaking their physical abilities shouldn't be that outstanding. If this means the player speed needs to be reduced, I'd take that over missing four times before I'm actually able to land a shot on the speedy buggers.

Personally I feel like zombies as an archetype should be harmless alone or in small groups, but dangerous in large numbers. That being said, getting large numbers of zombies is much too easy. But that's a completely subjective design opinion.

Another thing about their animations is that it makes it difficult to determine if you actually hit the bloody thing. You shoot it, then .5-1 second later it reacts and falls over. When you're dealing with multiple zombies, this makes it very hard to conserve ammo as you might waste a shot on one that's already been dealt with. Once again, this could be a realism thing but it makes the game considerably less fun for me, so it's up to the rest of you guys to decide on that factor.

[ARBY 3]

Yeah, given 2 min you should be able to out run a chasing horde.

[BloodFreak 0]

Honestly I wouldn't mind if the zombie movement speed was just reduced wholesale. They run like freaking Olympic champs' date=' not a bunch of recently "dead" Russians with weight issues. If we're going for the infected type zombie rather than the supernatural kind, realistically speaking their physical abilities shouldn't be that outstanding. If this means the player speed needs to be reduced, I'd take that over missing four times before I'm actually able to land a shot on the speedy buggers.

Personally I feel like zombies as an archetype should be harmless alone or in small groups, but dangerous in large numbers. That being said, getting large numbers of zombies is much too easy. But that's a completely subjective design opinion.

Another thing about their animations is that it makes it difficult to determine if you actually hit the bloody thing. You shoot it, then .5-1 second later it reacts and falls over. When you're dealing with multiple zombies, this makes it very hard to conserve ammo as you might waste a shot on one that's already been dealt with. Once again, this could be a realism thing but it makes the game considerably less fun for me, so it's up to the rest of you guys to decide on that factor.

[/quote']

You're right, I think one of the reason zombie are fast is so players won't run and loot things. If they were a little bit slower it would limit that and also when your running from a horde of slow/medium walking zombie that's when bandit can really strike.

[CodBall (DayZ) 0]

They run like freaking Olympic champs' date=' not a bunch of recently "dead" Russians with weight issues. [/quote']

I'm pretty sure they're not dead, they're infected with some sort of rage virus (think 28 days later) - or so has been said anyway, which makes it strange they're still called zombies even in the game.

I agree that the speed makes it very hard to accurately hit 2/3 zeds and the warping can be a real pain when you take the shot, go to reload your shotty and it turns out you've missed and it's chewing on your face!

Perhaps keep the zig zagging as it adds a nice element but slow them down to L4D speeds and mix in some shufflers in there - there would be nothing cooler than being on a roof...surrounded by slow moving zeds approaching in some kind of last stand scenario.

[EnermaX 59]

They run that fast/unpredicable too make the game harder.

-1

[BloodFreak 0]

They run that fast/unpredicable too make the game harder.

-1

Seriously? I can understand you like challenge and maybe you like speedy zombie, but seriously don't tell me that you actully find the warping acceptable. Also tell me the truth, if there is a building next to you, will you use it so you can actually hit them or stay outside for the "challenge"?

There's hard and broken.

[global420 0]

I posted this on another topic that may get closed, so I will repost it here.

I really like the zombies from the undead mod for arma2, great animations and I love slower zombies (old school zombie lover). But yeah, more variety is good I think (not to go over board like L4D special zombies), maybe the slower zombies travel in groups.

Have something like:

slowest=crawlers

slow=walkers (like the undead mod speed)

medium=monkey Z's(or what ever they supposed to be)

fast=runners (like we have)

+1 for random speeds

[BloodFreak 0]

I posted this on another topic that may get closed' date=' so I will repost it here.

I really like the zombies from the undead mod for arma2, great animations and I love slower zombies (old school zombie lover). But yeah, more variety is good I think (not to go over board like L4D special zombies), maybe the slower zombies travel in groups.

Have something like:

slowest=crawlers

slow=walkers (like the undead mod speed)

medium=monkey Z's(or what ever they supposed to be)

fast=runners (like we have)

+1 for random speeds

[/quote']

Different speed would be nice indeed. The fact that a giant group of zombie are all fast is way too hard. Having slower more damage dealing if we need zombie would be nice.

[liquidje 38]

Warping is of course not on purpose and will be fixed eventually.

However, slow zombies induces some problems. The lower the speed, the more zombies you need to impose a threat.

Also, with the newest fix outrunning/hiding from zombies is doable.

Random speed would be great!

[BloodFreak 0]

Warping is of course not on purpose and will be fixed eventually.

However' date=' slow zombies induces some problems. The lower the speed, the more zombies you need to impose a threat.

Also, with the newest fix outrunning/hiding from zombies is doable.

Random speed would be great!

[/quote']

With the current build if zombie would be a little bit slower you really wouldn't need to increase number to make it challenging. I mean when your in a city there's over 10-20 zombies attracted to a single fireshot. Being for defending yourself from an average speed zombie or a bandit, your in trouble anyway.

If they're really slow than yes, would need more than 10, but imagine having so much zombie that the real thread is actully the number. You can't really wipe them without either a lot of ammo or a lot of people and that will still once again attract people.

The zombie shouldn't be the only challenge. People that are attracted to such battle that drag out is.

[liquidje 38]

With the current build if zombie would be a little bit slower you really wouldn't need to increase number to make it challenging.

But if you make zombies only a tiny bit slower' date=' this will probably not change the problem enough. That can only be found out by experiment: I think we will see many different speeds the coming month.

I mean when your in a city there's over 10-20 zombies attracted to a single fireshot. Being for defending yourself from an average speed zombie or a bandit, your in trouble anyway.

Please note that there are also many players who do not play in the cities. The situation should also hold for barns and small towns.

If they're really slow than yes' date=' would need more than 10, but imagine having so much zombie that the real thread is actully the number. You can't really wipe them without either a lot of ammo or a lot of people and that will still once again attract people.

[/quote']

That's actually not my concern, my biggest concern is the server performance :P

The zombie shouldn't be the only challenge. People that are attracted to such battle that drag out is.

true

[ComComInc 0]

I believe that at the current state the zombies are you can most definitely keep from being hit if you are running continuously and not vaulting over anything. However, I do agree that a zombie that was only some distance behind running at a set speed should not be warped directly to your back. I've encountered it multiple times where I'd look behind (Numpad 1) me as I am running for dear life and the zombie that was some odd feet away magically warps at my back with an animation of trying to swipe at me. It doesn't pose much the problem when you run through a building and are slowed to a point to give you room continue your way of getting beyond their line of sight. Or in other cases, find yourself a steep enough hill that will slow you down leaving you with perhaps being hit once, but with all zombies on tail behind you. Though it would be much appreciated if you are within situation, one that doesn't include building nor steep hill, to maneuver around a large piece of cover and suddenly prone within a nice set of bushes. Now most certainly this can already be done to get a zombie off your tail, but you see that problem is that if they are already at a close (enough) range, they can warp right to your back. This would lead you to understand that doing such a maneuver isn't going to be 100% in your favor unless you've already had some distance between it.

From said previous, this leads me to another issue. After remaining at stealth in the city (known for it's wondrous amounts of frame drops to me), still doesn't hold accurate though on the meter says you are clearly not visible or heard. One case I had only just one zombie in a city notice me, to where he naturally came running to me, I was in prone with both visibility and sound at a 100% none, and I took my ak74u to fire off a round in his chest. This occurred left the zombie dead and to my surprise without the follow of other zombies. As I turned around there was a zombie not too far off. The gun shot didn't attract him? I slowly crouched to him and he was in definite startle. Again, a simple prone with same results on the visibility and sound with one shot off in it's chest left with another kill in the bag along with no attraction to self. At this point, I was pretty confident I was onto a new discovery. A zombie walking about around the corner of a building without knowledge of my presence was about to get a bullet to the head. This time, I left myself within a stealthy state and kept visibility and sound at a 100% 0. Shot fired!! Oh dear... I just called in the cavalry of unit zombie. Within 1 second (I do not exaggerate that time) all of 6 zombies had surrounded me and instantaneously knocked me out. Miraculously... I made it out of that.

Based off of my little story above, I can only assume that they arrived around me in such time because of their "warpy" nature as you say. Or... Because of loud gun fire within a pretentiously large zombie spawn gives them reason to spawn just around the building to come right around to surround you before you even have time to stand up from prone; because everyone knows that standing up from your stomach takes a year and a day.

Stating another issue being the fact that you close a door to block known oncoming slaughter, but seemingly is a most certain failure attempt seeing as solid objects do not obstacle it's path. For they can simply walk through walls and doors alike. Yet, you are unable of such majestic powers unless you have assistance of a friendly zombie to push you out and to the other side.

Alas, at it's current state the zombies can be easily dealt with if you keep in mind that if you are caught in it's eye for a tasty treat, you run and never stop running until you've found that steep hill or building that will slow them down. Because these things have a higher certainty for your survival than any other. Of course, if you are cased with a weapon, you can do as much as this along with funneling them for kills to loot those sardines, beans, pepsi, and coke.

Though, a fix to said "warp" nature with inclusion of more ways to lose a zombies track would greatly add and much appreciated. The zombies movement needing a large fix should be a priority.

[ZomboWTF 527]

I defnitely agree to that, zombies are i believe twice as fast as you, even if you go over a fence having 50m way to run around, either the zombie chasing you runs through the fence without any collision, or you get to the other side, and the zombie runs 50 meters in 3 seconds

In the current build, getting rid of a zombie means either running to a steep hill, (going up or down doesnt matter, zombies will die of falling damage when going down because of their warping, or go very slowly because of the auto-walking at steep hills)

or use the well known bug that zombies are going to a crawling speed once inside a building

the ways that i would in real life get rid of a zombie however dont work, for example:

I am chased by a zombie, get some meters between me and him by climbing over a fence, and immediately turning around a corner of a wall, going prone, leaving 0 vis and 0 aud, practically invisible AND out of line of sight

the zombie still runs to you in his olympic sports speed and begins chewing out your intestines

i know many people say zombies need to be fast to be dangerous, but actualy it would be far enough if the zombies would be just a little bit slower than you sprinting

Here comes the important part:

say, zombies are a bit slower than you (when SPRINTING)

think about it: when sprinting, you are (with 1.7.1.5) so f***ing loud that you alert zombies from 50 meters away, but you would be faster and will get rid of them when running into the country side after a few minutes

then, we could also make zombies being ale to run in buildings, a tat slower when going upstairs maybe, but when its done that way, people just cant ninja into buildings and survive when theres no gun to get

-end of the important stuff

however, the warping and glitching through walls zeds do at the moment really needs to be fixed, as soon as possible

i also saw a zed running through a part of a wall that you can only prone through, pathfinding also needs to be fixed

[bbfhavok 0]

+1 for fix on zeds warping through walls, +1 on random speeds generated depending on the group size or the group you're facing.

it seems to me this game's main threat is the player base when i feel like it should focus a balance, you can avoid the zombies at the moment unless as mentioned above they're warping around you at light speed speeds then in that case you have to retreat. bandits on the other hand are also a threat which is great i love that real life apocalyptic feel to the game.

bandits + zombies = main threat. not bandits - zombies = threat. a balance needs to be made, because as of right now, everyone is avoiding the zombies too much and focusing on killing each other, which is okay, but i feel like some more zombie killing needs to happen!

[Haplo (DayZ) 44]

+1 for fix on zeds warping through walls' date=' +1 on random speeds generated depending on the group size or the group you're facing.

...

i feel like some more zombie killing needs to happen!

[/quote']

so true! random zombie speeds could be quite effective. adds an element of realism in terms of their individual fitness. i would like to see more zombies with gimpy ass broken legs and stuff too

[Hendrix (DayZ) 14]

I agree with the original poster on the point of zombies needing a run speed reduction, and their run patterns changed. The zig zag movement needs to be removed it doesn't make sense. Why would a zombie be intelligent enough to run from side to side. Also I have closed gates to avoid zombies and they intelligently open them to come get me....this also needs removed. Zombies are not intelligent they are brain dead, having them open gates is stupid what next they gonna drive up on an atv to catch me?

Secondly in the balance department the bean wars are not gonna stop till zombies drop beans/pasta more frequently. If you can kill players and get more rewards then from killing zombies with less risk (no guns at spawn) then why not kill players? Also matches/hunting knives need some better spawn locations, shouldn't most houses have matches or a hunting knife?.... dying with 3 uncooked steaks in your pack because matches are more elusive to find then waldo is a real buzz kill...and why can I hack an animal to death with an ax yet I need a hunting knife to cut a steak out of it ....maybe make axes multipurpose and spawn them less.....I entered a barn one day and found 9 axes...yeah 9.....

[jwo7777777 7]

Do we actually know the developer's intent? Is rocket aiming for zombies with various speeds, zombies of the "I Am Legend" variety (light-avoiding pumped-up-metabolism pack animals), or some other mish-mash?

[Haplo (DayZ) 44]

The zig zag movement needs to be removed it doesn't make sense. Why would a zombie be intelligent enough to run from side to side.

Also I have closed gates to avoid zombies and they intelligently open them to come get me.

Also matches/hunting knives need some better spawn locations' date=' shouldn't most houses have matches or a hunting knife?

and why can I hack an animal to death with an ax yet I need a hunting knife to cut a steak out of it

[/quote']

i also hate that zombies can open gates. i was thinking; say if you're inside and the doors are shut, a zombie banging on the door could be a good cue to attract other zombies..

all good points.. by rights, every house should have at least 1 decent knife in it, maybe having matches just a little rarer (in houses).

perhaps using the ax to cut meat could just return say, 1 less piece of meat for goats etc. 2 for cows.. (i dunno, not as precise?)

[BloodFreak 0]

Do we actually know the developer's intent? Is rocket aiming for zombies with various speeds' date=' zombies of the "I Am Legend" variety (light-avoiding pumped-up-metabolism pack animals), or some other mish-mash?

[/quote']

I know this game is made to reflect the idea of Rocket. However, he doesn't only this game for himself, he make it for the other. This is the reason why there is a suggestion thread. As it is right now, the only real way to manage zombie is too run full speed away from the city and that's dumb. You should be able to hide or at less kill the one that saw you and hide. Right now if you try to hide the one that saw you will automatically found you, if you run to hide other will find you and if you try to kill the zed and hide other will come in less than 1-2sec no joke.

Also thank you all for your post so far. I have read all the posts and some are them are fill with truth and yes standing back up take a year and an haft ;)

[Sinaz20 0]

If not a run speed reduction, then at least, a random interval stumble from the zombie.

My biggest issue is that I never really get to practice the LOS evasion because in the northern wilderness, you lack dense obstacles to distance yourself with.

Most zombies encountered can outpace you as you attempt to run behind things-- I spent a ridiculous amount of time trying to evade a zombie running around the one house I could find for miles... just running around and around trying to figure out how I can distance myself just a little so I can take advantage of their line of sight.

Nope-- even running around a particular fence, the zombie would catch up to me before I could make it back to the nearest corner of the house.

I ran around bushes, trees, hay bales... there was nothing that I could get around faster than the zombie could pursue me.

Eventually I dove under a pine tree where they couldn't reach me, but I couldn't figure any way to get back out without dying-- spent a lot of my time in the tree trying to break LOS... couldn't do it.

[BloodFreak 0]

Yes running out of sight of something that run twice as fast. Yeah, it's not really going to happen. This is frustrating me just like you ;)

[Ag3nt Richt3r 19]

Here's my two cents.

Zombies should run slower than players can sprint, but have higher endurance, and not get tired. They will either a.) lose site/interest in their quarry and give up the chase, or b.) over run the survivor as they get too tired to run any further.

Players should sprint faster than zombies, but also run out of breath, get tired, or even be encumbered by the amount of gear they are carrying. (This would make the smaller backpacks more valuable in some scenarios.)

I realize it would take some fine tunning to get the right balance. And I also believe there should be a 'regular' jogging speed that a player can move at for extended periods of time so we aren't spending hours going from one town to the next.

As it stands now I can just spawn and run into Cherno, Balota, Electro, Berizno, etc., with a full zombie train in tow. Then run through a few buildings, barns, warehouses, and the like to lose them, then sneak into the buildings I know have the good loot. All without getting 'tired' or slowing down at all.

I think it would change the dynamics of the game to add fatigue to the mix.

To summarize:

*Make the normal sprinting speed of the zombies slightly faster than the current running speed of the players. However, they should not be able to stop and take a swing and then warp speed run to catch up. Speed of the zombies need to be more fluid and less warpy.

*Make the 'sprint' speed of the players faster than the fastest zombies. A player should be able to sprint for approx. 5 min or so and then get tired and move at a slower speed than normal while they catch their breath.

*The current running/jogging speed can be left alone, and be a maintainable speed by the players for extended periods of time. However, this needs to be slower than what the zombies can achieve when they are chasing you.

Once zombies stop warping/glitching around while chasing I think this will be a very fun and playable game mechanic.

[Keunus 0]

Agree with op. Rocket said it was a arma 2 ai issue thats why They zigzag. But i recently played another arma 2 zombie mod called chernarus apocalypse. There the zombies run perfectly, no zigzag, warping and not to fast. No idea why Rocket kept them this crappy for so long. Seems like a nr1 thing to fix if not intended.

[rainf 76]

Zombie zigzagging, and moving slow in buildings is unfortunately an issue with Arma II, I hope it is eventually ironed out.

I agree with the poster above, slower than sprinting player zeds and even more "walker" type zombies would allow for engagements with the undead outside of the safety that buildings provide, offset by a stamina system for players.

Encumberance is tricky, perhaps it would only decrease the actual stamina, not speed.