A simple idea for facial reactions.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

A while ago rocket mentioned that facial animations were going to be implemented in the Standalone, and that essentially they would reflect your humanity. Of course that's pretty vague, so I just wanted to put up some thoughts on how facial animations might react to individuals, rather than in just a general way. First I'd like to add that I think players should always be able to manually override their facial "reactions" by pressing different facial animation keys.

 

Basically, your (automatic) facial reaction to another player would be based on three variables:

 

1: Your own humanity (negative being a frown and positive being a slight grin, or preferably neutral by default),

 

2: Your rapport with that particular player.

 

3: Your current state.

 

The idea is that each time a specific player interacts with you in a positive way, it would add some points to their positive rapport (only with you). Also, if another player spends an extended amount of time around you, it will slowly appreciate one point at a time, also increasing rapport. Inversely, If the player does something negative to you, it would reduce your rapport. Shooting you or injuring you with any weapon would set your rapport back to base value (zero**) - or decrease it if they are already neutral to you - and killing you would reduce your rapport even further, into the negative.

 

 

- Rapport would always take precedent over your humanity on your "facial reaction" when you look at another player. This means that two bandits could have very low humanity, but if they are working together and have good rapport with each other, then they will smile when they see each other.

 

- Your current state (i.e. injured, encumbered, panicking, being shot at or otherwise attacked, chased by zombies) would take precedent over rapport and humanity.

 

**Players should be able to select another player and designate them as "trusted" or as a "buddy," which would set their base rapport at a high level. This way accidental friendly fire and that sort of thing won't break two people's rapport unnecessarily. However, you can only set someone as your friend if they are in your line of sight, and also accept your request. (This simply prevents the system from being abused to circumvent facial reactions.)

 

 

Rapport and your trusted players should also be persistent, and attached to your GUID. Meaning if you run into a guy that you teamed up with in the past, your rapport would carry over to that interaction as well and therefore you will both smile when you see each other.

 

 

 

I know this is one of those ideas that I and others have already kicked around quite a bit. I'm simply trying to entertain a more technical and nuanced approach. Thoughts?

 

 

 

Edited for new ideas.

Edited September 30, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[Dr.Duff 211]

I hope this doesn't mean the lower our humanity gets the more guy-liner the avatar wears!

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

I hope this doesn't mean the lower our humanity gets the more guy-liner the avatar wears!

 

Maybe that would be a concern, if the devs didn't know the difference between animations, and textures. But fortunately they do.

[LancerG2 369]

I'm up for this, I want to be pissed off 24/7.

[Conkykillz 791]

Just found a can of Beans

 

[Sutinen 635]

There should be emotions for being exhausted, getting hurt and getting shot/melee'd at.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

There should be emotions for being exhausted, getting hurt and getting shot/melee'd at.

 

I agree. I think a lot could be done with the system, if and when they implement it. For example, when zombies are chasing your player and he begins to panic.

[Chris529 380]

< If you find a guy looking at you like this, back away and don't break eye contact.

 

It's a cool idea, if you have a mean expression people might not turn their back on you so easily

[OrLoK 16187]

Hello there

 

I wonder how useful this would be?

 

How often do you actually look at a players face?

 

Notice how close you have to be to see any detail?

 

I suppose it may be nice for those who group, but for the most part will it help identify a potential friendly or bandit?

 

In games like HL2 I can see its use, but in DAYZ? I need more info to be sure...

 

Rgds

 

Lok

[Chris529 380]

Hello there

 

I wonder how useful this would be?

 

How often do you actually look at a players face?

 

Notice how close you have to be to see any detail?

 

I suppose it may be nice for those who group, but for the most part will it help identify a potential friendly or bandit?

 

In games like HL2 I can see its use, but in DAYZ? I need more info to be sure...

 

Rgds

 

Lok

You get to see the smug grin on the face you're about to destroy through your scope, that's gotta count for something. Besides that and a few other occasions it's not a big part of the game, just a thing on the side that would be pretty neat.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Hello there

 

I wonder how useful this would be?

 

How often do you actually look at a players face?

 

Notice how close you have to be to see any detail?

 

I suppose it may be nice for those who group, but for the most part will it help identify a potential friendly or bandit?

 

In games like HL2 I can see its use, but in DAYZ? I need more info to be sure...

 

Rgds

 

Lok

 

 

It's not for you to look at your own face. It's for other players to see your face. It's about interaction. And yes, you have to be close. The whole point is that you can't look at a player 300 meters away through a scope and see a turban on his head and automatically decide "Oh yeah, bad guy" and kill him. What does killing a random stranger who you actually don't know anything about really say about your humanity? It doesn't make sense to me that we would punish murderers by giving them head wraps and then reward other murderers by giving them shemags and plaid, just because they happened to murder people with head wraps.

 

To me, that is a very twisted take on humanity. Which is why I want the game to be more subtle, more ambiguous, and more detailed. Instead of picking off a bandit and being able to go "Yep, I did the right thing there," you're going to have to ask yourself, "did I do the right thing there?"

Edited September 30, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[OrLoK 16187]

Hello there

 

I know very well its for others faces :) (as well as yer own for others to view) I just wonder about its validity as a useful tool.

 

Im rarely able to see anyones features.

 

Dont get me wrong, Im not slating the idea, its just that I personally cannot visualise how it'll work in game.

 

I like the idea, I just cannot see it working.

 

The devs for both the mod and SA are clever goblins so they may well surprise me.

 

Regardless, its a very interesting concept!

 

Rgds

 

LoK

Edited September 30, 2013 by orlok

[Bass50 43]

What would be the point in humanity affecting your facial expression when as soon as someone gets close enough to actually see, 'rapport', as you say, will take over anyway?

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

What would be the point in humanity affecting your facial expression when as soon as someone gets close enough to actually see, 'rapport', as you say, will take over anyway?

 

Humanity is a baseline, like a basic disposition. Your rapport with every player by default is neutral, so therefore your humanity would be he value referenced in those interactions. HOWEVER, if you have a friend, aka, high rapport with that individual player, it doesn't make sense for you to react to that one person the same way you would react to everyone else. Does that make sense?

 

It's like this: First, check state. If state is neutral, then check rapport with any players that you are looking at. If rapport is neutral, then check humanity. Based on these values, the system would generate fairly accurate facial animations in most situations.

 

The reason is simple. Human beings are complex creatures, and we act dynamically. We aren't always "bad" or always "good." Often times a "good" person will make a bad decision, and vice versa. Bad people have friends, too. Therefore, a static representation of your humanity is an oversimplification of you as a person. People are layered. Like onions.

 

 

 

Haven't you ever met someone who was rude to you, but nice to their friends? Same basic idea.

 

 

 

You could easily see a facial expression at this distance. Would it work far away? Of course not. It's not supposed to work far away. I'm talking split second, close up interactions where the difference between life and death is going to lie in judging another person's disposition. We do this constantly in real life, which is why it seems like a completely logical feature to implement. Otherwise, there's really no point to have a humanity system at all, because it won't provide you with any visual cues whatsoever in the Standalone.

 

And of course, I'm not trying to imply that this is the only method of judging a person. You still have to pay attention to them, watch their ​actions, their behaviors, weapons they are holding, ect. ect. There are thousands of things you need to take into account to be an effective player in DayZ. This is just one more tool in the toolbox.

 

A little something is better than nothing at all, IMO. And of course, players would still have to option to wear a helmet or a mask or something, which would cover their face. There's all sorts of exceptions to this idea, which is actually why I think it's a good one. It's not meant to be "the final word" in detecting a person's humanity, or intentions. It's just adding a little bit of detail and authenticity which I think people will naturally pick up on. It's not intended to be "bandit radar."

Edited September 30, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[OrLoK 16187]

Hello there

 

I wonder if a picture in picture solution might assist in this?

 

A we all play at varying resolutions and monitor sizes, perhaps a close up on the individuals face could pop up?

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[AP_Norris 1018]

I think the idea is to destroy the logic of judging people from hundreds of metres away with a scope and change it to actually going up and meeting them.

But while changing certain players ability to delude their companions it will also make it easier for the KOS bandits that will just shoot anybody and everybody while an attempt to study their face is being made.

It could definately make a kill more personal than shooting a guy in a blue shirt and feeling bad.

Instead it would be shooting somebody with complete hospitality and good intentions.

[OrLoK 16187]

Hello There

 

I do like the idea. I just wonder about the implementation.

 

What if one is running those textures on the lowest setting? Usually if you are that close you are either dead or friends anyway.

 

Im not deliberately picking at this, well perhaps I am but its because its an interesting mechanic and i'd like to pull it apart to make sure its solid.

 

Im odd like that.

 

Rdgs

 

LoK

[AP_Norris 1018]

Hello There

 

I do like the idea. I just wonder about the implementation.

 

What if one is running those textures on the lowest setting? Usually if you are that close you are either dead or friends anyway.

 

Im not deliberately picking at this, well perhaps I am but its because its an interesting mechanic and i'd like to pull it apart to make sure its solid.

 

Im odd like that.

 

Rdgs

 

LoK

I hear what you're saying.

If... You get that close, its a major problem and if KOS can't be fixed then there isn't much reason to implement it.

That's why I like the permanent identity thing, you get to know people, their name gets around and if they don't wanna be identified they wear that headwrap and avoid a name popping up.

But some players will shoot these face people that cover their face on sight, as some hero's shoot bandits on sight but... They have that choice, if facial expressions of bandits occasionally seemed creepy or something when in combat and looking at men... then they could hide that with a wrap aswell.

If somebody wants to go around avoiding being named in situations where they're just killing on sight, but occasionally need to get closer they can remove their facewrap and risk being identified by their facial expressions.

To me that's what I think I'd like a combination of perma identity and facial expressions.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

I hear what you're saying.

If... You get that close, its a major problem and if KOS can't be fixed then there isn't much reason to implement it.

That's why I like the permanent identity thing, you get to know people, their name gets around and if they don't wanna be identified they wear that headwrap and avoid a name popping up.

But some players will shoot these face people that cover their face on sight, as some hero's shoot bandits on sight but... They have that choice, if facial expressions of bandits occasionally seemed creepy or something when in combat and looking at men... then they could hide that with a wrap aswell.

If somebody wants to go around avoiding being named in situations where they're just killing on sight, but occasionally need to get closer they can remove their facewrap and risk being identified by their facial expressions.

To me that's what I think I'd like a combination of perma identity and facial expressions.

 

 

This idea is actually intended to be combined with that existing suggestion. The fact that the thread is over a year old I think merits support from the team, so I'm kind of assuming that feature would exist...

 

And yeah, definitely Orlock. I mean, it's not bullet proof by any means. I don't think it's going to dramatically alter the way people behave in the game, I just think it will make the game that much more beautiful, detailed, and interesting. Kind of like how a player's mouth moves when they speak over the mic. It's not extremely useful in any way (for the same reasons you point out here), but actually in some situations, it is kind of helpful. And it adds to that small level of realism (or authenticity, or whatever) that made the mod feel so genuine to me in the first place.

 

It's funny, recently someone made a thread about how playing DayZ would never feel like the "first time" ever again. But actually, I think if the devs keep pumping in more and more content, more ideas, more little idiosyncrasies that add to the experience, the SA can really feel "fresh."

Edited October 1, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[LancerG2 369]

 

~Snip~

 

In a nutshell...

 

Adds Immersion. Don't argue with me.

Edited October 1, 2013 by LancerG2

[AP_Norris 1018]

This idea is actually intended to be combined with that existing suggestion. The fact that the thread is over a year old I think merits support from the team, so I'm kind of assuming that feature would exist...

 

And yeah, definitely Orlock. I mean, it's not bullet proof by any means. I don't think it's going to dramatically alter the way people behave in the game, I just think it will make the game that much more beautiful, detailed, and interesting. Kind of like how a player's mouth moves when they speak over the mic. It's not extremely useful in any way (for the same reasons you point out here), but actually in some situations, it is kind of helpful. And it adds to that small level of realism (or authenticity, or whatever) that made the mod feel so genuine to me in the first place.

 

It's funny, recently someone made a thread about how playing DayZ would never feel like the "first time" ever again. But actually, I think if the devs keep pumping in more and more content, more ideas, more little idiosyncrasies that add to the experience, the SA can really feel "fresh."

I remember my first time playing DayZ, I was running to my friends in nub who convinced me to buy Arma 2 OA in a sale, then while I was running past a gas station mix guy stopped and took out an m240 I stayed a while shooting zombies before continuing. Then as I passed a town two men with hatchets attacked me, as I was looting them I got sniped with the ghillie suit, M240, cooked meat and coyote pack some hacker gave me XD I really didn't work out untill about a week after what had happened I'd never seen a hacker before.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

In a nutshell...

 

Adds Immersion. Don't argue with me.

 

Haha. Well I'm open to suggestions or additions... I already edited my post for an idea I thought was kind of a major oversight I made, and I'm not even trying to deny the truthfulness of what Orlock is saying. He's got excellent points, and I think it just proves that no feature we add to DayZ is going to be "perfect." View distances are different for high and low end PC's, one could argue those should be fixed across all clients by the same logic. Just because I disagree or have my own opinion, doesn't mean I'm not willing to hear out arguments against it. As I already conceded, implementation of this feature would probably not alter player's behavior in any dramatic way.

Edited October 1, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[King of kong 1117]

Me Gusto......What about a Me Gusto face every time you kill a bandit.

[Frytek 130]

I would rather like a retardly happy face when you find something rare.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

I would rather like a retardly happy face when you find something rare.

 

It's funny, but sure... why not? I like it. Kind of ties into King of Kong's me gusto face. It's one of those "state" based variables, so it's totally feasible.