A minor, but interesting, firearm suggestion.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

 

 

Since large caliber weapons and other military gear are going to be quite rare in the standalone, and crafting is becoming more and more important, I thought it would be mighty interesting to see functionality like this. Similarly, I have seen people shoot 9mm rounds from their .40 caliber pistols, and .40's out of .45's.

 

Ideally if this capability were implemented, each shot that used a non-standard, or makeshift form of ammo would cause wear and tear to your gun, and with repetition the gun would break down entirely. Just an interesting thought for the desperate survivor who happens to have a .40 cal pistol, and a box of 9mm bullets, and finds himself in a jam. Also, maybe there could be a 1/1000 chance or something that the gun would catastrophically fail and possibly even injure you in the process. Plus it would make for some great moments. Imagine that .50 calber rounds were this extremely rare ammo type and you've been carrying one of these things around with you, for good luck or whatever. You happen to find a shotgun, when you spy a lone gunman coming your way. He has a bullet proof vest on, and you have no shotgun shells. Thinking quickly, you take your one lucky .50 cal round that you have modified with some duct tape and load it into your shotgun...

 

Feedback? Has anything like this been suggested before?

Edited September 7, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[applejaxc 2500]

It's been suggested before, because it's a good idea.

[Wolfensteinsaurus 2252]

Hmmm, some Dino-Schnitzels for you.

:beans:

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

That's a bit mental. But it's the sort of thing you expect in DayZ.

 

After you've taped up your 50, keep the tape handy. You might need it to stick your fingers back on.

[-Gews- 7443]

Not safe, not a smart idea...  12 ga pressure 11500 psi, 50 BMG 55,000 psi, 12 ga barrel wall thickness 0.025-0.035, 50 BMG barrel wall thickness 0.5-0.75... no thanks...

[Statik (DayZ) 2695]

12 ga barrel wall thickness 0.025-0.035, 50 BMG barrel wall thickness 0.5-0.75... no thanks...

Aaaaah. Minor difference, you'd be fiiine.

[Wolfensteinsaurus 2252]

Gews? Safe?...

Pffft...

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I seriously doubt the primary concern here is user-safety.

When you have your shotty, 12.7 and tape in-hand and that pesky banditmobile is causing havok, you likely won't be thinking "Geez, this isn't exactly the intended purpose of these two. Better not risk it"

 

Risk/Reward is the name of the game.

 

Rags, petrol and glass bottles probably don't meet any kind of munitions-safety standards, but improvise to win, baby.

[h3l1x 327]

It may sound like a nice idea but it seems to me too complicated to be implemented (specific range of calibers for specific range of firearms, crafting setup, accuracy penalty, failchance, gun jam, gun degradation, gun blowing up/injuring/killing you).

 

Also, this comes to mind.

[Wolfensteinsaurus 2252]

It may sound like a nice idea but it seems to me too complicated to be implemented (specific range of calibers for specific range of firearms, crafting setup, accuracy penalty, failchance, gun jam, gun degradation, gun blowing up/injuring/killing you). 

Also, this comes to mind.

I'm pretty sure most of those things are going to be in the SA.

[h3l1x 327]

I'm pretty sure most of those things are going to be in the SA.

Well, that wasn't what I meant. Let me elaborate. Yes, all these features are probably going to be added to the SA in time, but still said system would require setting up specific parameters and values for said feature. For example, firing 9mm rounds in a .40cal pistol would be less dangerous than firing .50cal in a shotgun (as many of the above posters explained). So it needs research, and too much different tweaks in order to appear realistic and not just a simplified "I can use all smaller cals in my gun and I always got the same way of putting them in (duct tape), the same chances it jams, the same chances it blows up, etc" feature. You get my point now? It's too specific and so many factors are involved in order to be implemented in a nice way.

It's almost redoing everything. Velocities, accuracy, bullet drop, with extra parameters involved (all kinds of fail and misfire).

Edited September 7, 2013 by h3l1x

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Pistol step-ups would be likely to jam, and cause mechanical damage, but aren't exactly a recipe for a "Bugs-Bunny blowout".

Also, the use of smaller ammunition in pistols would be WAY less useful than the ability to fire AMR rounds from a 12 gauge.

 

If the feature really is too complex to be feasible (on account of the numbers), I'd forget about stepping-up ALL ammo and just make 50 BMG moddable, for its unique functionality.

[-Gews- 7443]

When you have your shotty, 12.7 and tape in-hand and that pesky banditmobile is causing havok, you likely won't be thinking "Geez, this isn't exactly the intended purpose of these two. Better not risk it"

 

True. However I would not like to see a half-assed implementation, which is honestly what I would expect.

 

 

Also, the use of smaller ammunition in pistols would be WAY less useful than the ability to fire AMR rounds from a 12 gauge.

 

Firing .50 BMG from a shotgun sounds impressive, but since the .50 caliber bullet is 0.511 inches in diameter and the bore of a shotgun is smooth and about 0.729 inches in diameter, this means there is a gap of 0.218 inches on EACH side of the .50 BMG bullet

 

This means the undersized bullet will suffer the following effects:

 

-FAR less velocity

-NO accuracy

 

 

And I mean NO accuracy. A bullet even a tiny bit undersized will greatly suffer in accuracy. Muskets of .75 caliber used undersized balls closer to .70 in diameter - their lack of accuracy is well known. Moving to a .510 bullet in a .730 bore? Good night nurse!

 

As well, with such a large gap around the bullet, velocity will be abysmal as the pressure that would normally be built up will simply flow around the edges.

 

A velocity reduction of 1/3 means you only have 44% of the energy.

A velocity reduction of 1/2 means you only have 25% of the energy.

 

I would not be greatly surprised if the velocity reduction was LESS than half. As well, the bullet will not be stabilized in any form, meaning it will bleed off velocity and energy like a stuck pig every single foot it moves beyond the barrel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you may be able to fire .50 BMG in a shotgun once or twice, but will that shotgun have the power of an anti-materiel rifle? Not even close. You just have a musket, pretty much.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

So even a point-blank 50 from a 12 gauge couldn't impact hard enough to be AntiMateriel?

Not even AntiSkoda?

 

My thinking was, no matter the loss in stability, velocity and impact-power, it's still going to give a fair whack.

It's a feckin' big cartridge. And it's packed.

Precision engineering can take a back-seat if there's a practical use for "winging it".

 

Hands in the air, I'm not the numbers-guy.

[-Gews- 7443]

So even a point-blank 50 from a 12 gauge couldn't impact hard enough to be AntiMateriel?

Not even AntiSkoda?

 

My thinking was, no matter the loss in stability, velocity and impact-power, it's still going to give a fair whack.

It's a feckin' big cartridge. And it's packed.

Precision engineering can take a back-seat if there's a practical use for "winging it".

 

Hands in the air, I'm not the numbers-guy.

 

It would be damaging as per any large bullet but nowhere near as damaging as if it was fired from a rifle. Could it ruin an engine, probably, at close range since the bullet would be tumble. I also think it would cause more severe wounds than most rifles in the game. But not make an instant AS50, I think proper rifles of almost any caliber would be more useful in all situations.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

It would be damaging as per any large bullet but nowhere near as damaging as if it was fired from a rifle. Could it ruin an engine, probably, at close range since the bullet would be tumble. I also think it would cause more severe wounds than most rifles in the game. But not make an instant AS50, I think proper rifles of almost any caliber would be more useful in all situations.

Oh aye. Don't get me wrong. The right tool for the job is always the wisest choice.

I don't think anyone's expecting the "1HK from a mile" you think of when you see AMRs mentioned around here.

Honestly, I just thought in a pinch, no harm in trying.

 

Think of it as using flaming petrol when you don't have det-cord, sort of thing.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Not safe, not a smart idea...  12 ga pressure 11500 psi, 50 BMG 55,000 psi, 12 ga barrel wall thickness 0.025-0.035, 50 BMG barrel wall thickness 0.5-0.75... no thanks...

 

Are you, by any chance, the world's first informative sentient A.I.? 

You seem to know literally everything.

 

Unless, of course, you just use Google.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

[callsignBravo (DayZ) 323]

Aaaaah. Minor difference, you'd be fiiine.

as he fires his shotgun,

the next moment: "aww shit where are my fingers?

[callsignBravo (DayZ) 323]

True. However I would not like to see a half-assed implementation, which is honestly what I would expect.

 

 

 

 

 

Firing .50 BMG from a shotgun sounds impressive, but since the .50 caliber bullet is 0.511 inches in diameter and the bore of a shotgun is smooth and about 0.729 inches in diameter, this means there is a gap of 0.218 inches on EACH side of the .50 BMG bullet

 

This means the undersized bullet will suffer the following effects:

 

-FAR less velocity

-NO accuracy

 

 

And I mean NO accuracy. A bullet even a tiny bit undersized will greatly suffer in accuracy. Muskets of .75 caliber used undersized balls closer to .70 in diameter - their lack of accuracy is well known. Moving to a .510 bullet in a .730 bore? Good night nurse!

 

As well, with such a large gap around the bullet, velocity will be abysmal as the pressure that would normally be built up will simply flow around the edges.

 

A velocity reduction of 1/3 means you only have 44% of the energy.

A velocity reduction of 1/2 means you only have 25% of the energy.

 

I would not be greatly surprised if the velocity reduction was LESS than half. As well, the bullet will not be stabilized in any form, meaning it will bleed off velocity and energy like a stuck pig every single foot it moves beyond the barrel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you may be able to fire .50 BMG in a shotgun once or twice, but will that shotgun have the power of an anti-materiel rifle? Not even close. You just have a musket, pretty much.

how about a 20 guage shotgun smaller bore, might be too small FIND OUT MEASURMANTS AND FACTS MAN!!!!

[Statik (DayZ) 2695]

as he fires his shotgun,

the next moment: "aww shit where are my fingers?

twas a joke.

[-Gews- 7443]

how about a 20 guage shotgun smaller bore, might be too small FIND OUT MEASURMANTS AND FACTS MAN!!!!

 

Huh? :huh:

 

7000 / 20 = 350

3rd root of (350 / 1504.5646) = 0.615

 

Yeah, it's too small.

[h3l1x 327]

Yeah, it's too small.

 

That's what she said  :lol:

[enforcer1975 1111]

So even a point-blank 50 from a 12 gauge couldn't impact hard enough to be AntiMateriel?

Not even AntiSkoda?

 

My thinking was, no matter the loss in stability, velocity and impact-power, it's still going to give a fair whack.

It's a feckin' big cartridge. And it's packed.

Precision engineering can take a back-seat if there's a practical use for "winging it".

 

Hands in the air, I'm not the numbers-guy.

 

Winging it is different than desperately trying to find a reason for the .50 to exist in the game...most shotgun users would probably melt the lead and make another projectile out of it, maybe with a metal or steel core.

 

If the bullet would hit with the tip it would penetrate but with the side or bottom it would squash and spread it's energy in the impact area.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Winging it is different than desperately trying to find a reason for the .50 to exist in the game.

:facepalm:

"Different", because the two are not mutually exclusive, maybe?

We should be supportive of all forms of improvisation. That's how scavenging works, once the real tools are gone.

 

"Most shotgun users" would most certainly not be melting down AMR rounds.

If they had no use for them and no way to make them useful, they are by definition "useless".

 

Sounds like you're looking for any reason for 50s not to be in-game.

We imagine the contents of the game-world are based loosely on reality and work from there.

If there's any desperation here, it must have followed you.

 

EDIT: (spelling and wording)

Edited September 8, 2013 by Chabowski