The "Hardcore" base

[terrvik 2409]

I just think that servers that force you to PvP(not all veteran servers) aren't reinforcing positive social interactions. I don't want to spawn with a DMR and go around shooting people, I'd much rather work my way up the ladder along others. And when you spawn with gear, there is less of an incentive to be friendly because survival doesn't mean much when you spawn back with good gear. I might not have made my meaning clear, and not all veteran serves must force you to play like that. Also, I feel like some people are in it for PvP and PvP only. that doesn't really leave much else to be achieved, eh?

 

Hardcore in DayZ for me is spawn with nothing, every option (sidechat, crosshairs, waypoints, nametags, death messages yadda yadda) turned off and when you die your computer explodes. I fail to see how that reinforces PvP? :)

 

Again; hardcore describes the experience, not the difficulty or attitude of players. In this case.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Hardcore in DayZ for me is spawn with nothing, every option (sidechat, crosshairs, waypoints, nametags, death messages yadda yadda) turned off and when you die your computer explodes. I fail to see how that reinforces PvP? :)

 

Again; hardcore describes the experience, not the difficulty or attitude of players. In this case.

yeah...spawning with uber gear isn't hardcore. kinda the entire point of my post...m8

[Jamz 253]

Hardcore in DayZ for me is spawn with nothing, every option (sidechat, crosshairs, waypoints, nametags, death messages yadda yadda) turned off and when you die your computer explodes. I fail to see how that reinforces PvP? :)

 

Again; hardcore describes the experience, not the difficulty or attitude of players. In this case.

 

Yeah, I guess to me there is no such thing as a hardcore player, only a hardcore game.

[pxxl 259]

yeah...spawning with uber gear isn't hardcore. kinda the entire point of my post...m8

 

Then why mention 3rd and 1st person view? The OP makes you look like you are butt hurt about that fact that 3rd person enabled is less hardcore then having it disabled.

 

I read somewhere in this thread that you just want 3rd person to remain in the game. Of course it will.. but there will also be servers which will have it disabled.

 

And now you are saying that the gear you spawn with is the entire point of your post?

Edited September 5, 2013 by PXXL

[mercules 1290]

Because all I've done is point out a certain feature of this discussion (and others) which shouldn't be there, while mercules continutes to discuss 1st vs 3rd

We are literally saying the very same thing, DG. No playstyle makes anyone superior.

 

 

Um... actually I started actively avoiding discussing FPV vrs TPV, since it seemed a sore point for you. I moved on to other settings that make the game more or less difficult to try and explain to you what my point was. Which I will reiterate.

My point was that some settings/playstyles lead people to make conclusions that are not true given other settings and playstyles. I specifically chose Nametags and Thermal scopes to point out that when you can sweep a bush and see someone's nametag pop up or see them on the map then a Thermal Scope is not that huge of an advantage or all that unbalanced but when you can't see such things Thermal Scopes suddenly become MUCH more useful. So somone playing on a nametage enabled server might have a different opinion about Thermal Scopes, that of them being hardly better than normal scopes, that does not fit with the general idea of DayZ which is typically with nametags off. Notice Thermal Scopes are not in the Vanilla DayZ loot tables.

I have to agree with the comment I saw just a moment ago, that there are not really Hardcore Players but instead Hardcore Servers. However, if you don't ever play on those servers enforcing those more "hardcore" rules then you really can't form an experienced opinion of them or the play. You can certainly extrapolate a theory based off of other experience and that can definitely be valid or relevant, but it could also be the wrong conclusion compared to actual experience. 

 

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

:facepalm:
Trying to be a polite as possible here, but. Are you broken?

 

 

One of the virtues of this here forum is, you can READ what other people have written.

Your complete (and continued) lack of understanding of what was being said is frustrating.

 

I fit helps the case any, I now feel like I should pity you.

"You can lead a horse to water...", eh?

[mercules 1290]

:facepalm:

Trying to be a polite as possible here, but. Are you broken?

 

 

One of the virtues of this here forum is, you can READ what other people have written.

Your complete (and continued) lack of understanding of what was being said is frustrating.

 

I fit helps the case any, I now feel like I should pity you.

"You can lead a horse to water...", eh?

 

Maybe you could stop being condescending and maybe point out what I have missed instead of just going, "You missed the point." You have to realize that sometimes it is the student, but sometimes it is the instructor. 

 

I have been trying to understand your point beyond you thinking that no one has any right to discuss possible flaws in the game or point them out to the development team so they can maybe be changed in the future. That seems to be the gist of your posts, mainly, "You have not right to tell me how to play a game." You are correct in that. I do, however, have every right to tell Rocket what game I want to play and point out where DayZ does not accomplish that. 

I can even go so far as to say, "Hey Chabowski doesn't really USE this feature/setting so I don't think his input to the discussion at hand is very relevant due to lack of experience." That isn't me seeing myself as better than you or even above you. It is logic dictating that we weight opinions based up on experience and gathered facts. 

Do I look down upon people playing on servers with Nametags turned on? Eh... not really but I refuse to play on such servers because they are not the experience I am looking for. I still think the opinion of those who play on such servers should not be held very high when talking about snipers in ghillie suits especially if they go, "Oh.. they are easy to deal with. What are you complaining about? They can see you and you can see them." That isn't me looking down on them that is me actually coming to understand their point of view and why it differs from my own and how their experiences have influenced their opinions. I've actually treated them with MORE respect in taking the time to figure them out. 

 

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Again. (again)

The point of the topic was how irrelevant any preference is in terms of having a vaild opinion.

That must be the 5th time I've pointed that out.

 

Also, the features I, according to you, don't use? Read my first post. Or any of my posts for that matter.

 

You clearly misinterpreted my point to start with, but the main feature of the banter is you persiting in treating me according to your prejudice, even though you were wrong.

It's hilariously on-topic. :lol:

[mercules 1290]

Again. (again)

The point of the topic was how irrelevant any preference is in terms of having a vaild opinion.

That must be the 5th time I've pointed that out.

 

Also, the features I, according to you, don't use? Read my first post. Or any of my posts for that matter.

 

You clearly misinterpreted my point to start with, but the main feature of the banter is you persiting in treating me according to your prejudice, even though you were wrong.

It's hilariously on-topic. :lol:

 

Except preference can actually be relevant in terms of having a valid opinion especially if that preference is being used as  supporting evidence for an argument or prevents someone from properly understanding the issue at hand. Yes it can and often is taken to an Ad Hominem attack such as, "Well you don't understand because you aren't Hardcore." but it can be valid. 

If someone states, "I don't think KoS is a problem." but then only plays on severs that are mostly empty and logs out when more than 10 people get on or maybe plays on a private server with a password they might not be the best person to discuss that issue. Asking them, "How busy of a server do you play on?" is a perfectly valid question in determining their experience with being KoS or KoS. Now if the conversation goes away from KoS being or not being an issue or how to prevent it to something like, "How does it affect server populations." and they chime in that they prefer to play on low population servers because they believe that will avoid KoS then their preference becomes relative to the conversation again.

 

 

Oh, and I have NEVER stated you don't use a feature. I gave an example of conversation and used your name in it. Please stop insisting I don't read your posts unless you want someone to start using the word hypocrite again. 

Edited September 5, 2013 by Mercules

[joe_mcentire 2073]

I AM HARDCORE I PLAY NAKED WITH MY EYEZ SHUT BLUT !

i too am naked...even if i don't play games...

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

And here I thought we were getting somewhere.

 

At least if you get a little pissed off about it, you can see how repeating your points, as if anyone who doesn't agree is just too stupid, is cause for resentment.

 

On opinions being relevant to specifics, you make a good point and I don't disagree, but as a rule (hair-splitting and VERY specific specifics aside) we treat everyone as equal. Sadly this is ignored by most. From all sides.

If you choose to play FPV in 3dp servers for the sake of friends, as I do, you have to resign to the fact that you're not on your own ground.

It's, again, this perception that EVERYONE holds, that their way is the RIGHT way.

The nature of the FPV/3dp argument is hard-coded in the nature of folk.

 

The fact still stands. You misread my case and serendipitously brought the topic full-circle.

 

If I know I'm right. And you know you're right. Where does arguing get us?

Shake on it and call it quits, if you're keen.

[mercules 1290]

If I know I'm right. And you know you're right. Where does arguing get us?

Shake on it and call it quits, if you're keen.

 

I think you miss the point of arguing. Arguing has a negative connotation these days. What you need to consider is that I am NOT arguing with you(I am but not in the fashion you meant) but that I am having a discussion. We hold differing views on some points and can discuss those differences. Now, you might think that I "Know" I am right and nothing is going to change my mind but that would be incorrect. Given proper evidence and logic I will actually change my mind and even admit in public when I was wrong. I will still probably state the reasons for my beliefs prior to the evidence that altered my perception of it, but I will admit when I am incorrect. That doesn't mean someone can repeat the same things over and over and bulldog me into accepting something.

 

You also need to understand that I am not in the least emotionally invested in the discussions on the forums. At least not in a "I hate this guy." or getting angry over posts. 

I can see by your statement "but as a rule (hair-splitting..." why we are continuing to discuss this in this manner. I know why I bring up the hair-splitting and specific situations that the "rule" doesn't apply in and it is very simply my nature. You see, my personality type is INTP in the Meyer's Brigg's and it very well fits me. That is what my type does. We tend to judge things based not off of general rules but on a case by case basis and that hair splitting and specific details are what drives us.

 

I have, in fact argued that the self proclaimed "hardcore" faction does not get to dictate game play for the rest of the community. In the case I was arguing a specific power was basically broken in a certain end game pvp raid. The "hardcore" raiders wanted it changed in a manner that would basically make it worthless for the rest of the content in the game. I could see their point, that it was influencing the majority of their gameplay but I did not think it fair to ruin the power for the majority of the content to basically fix one particular PvP experience and something the majority of the players would never even be involved in. 

Like I said though, I tend to base arguments off their basis and as an individual case and so can actually swing from one side of an argument in one case to another side in a different case. I can also see exceptions to the general rules you want to set up and feel the need to point them out for the simple fact that too many people will take general rules as absolute rules and apply them as such and need to be reminded that they are general rules and there are exceptions. 

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

I've created a monster. An ugly, disfigured, non factual argument fueling monster. time to abort this thread! Deploy flares, pull up! Pull up dammit! EJECT!

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Save your flares for a special occasion, Cap'n. This is just a wee butting of heads.

 

@ Mercules

Well, (if we're going for Meyer's Brigg's explanations) apparently I'm INTJ (strategist). And though I don't put much stock in it myself, it might explain my need to see every side of every argument.

 

Individual circumstances, accounting for all eventualities will end with us bogged down and getting nowhere. (case in point :D)

For the sake of furthering DayZ development; general rules, player-tendencies and estimation are the name of the game.

To that end, individual tit for tat and group-spanning petty squabbles are not in the least bit useful.

A call eventually will be made and regardless of outcome, Rocket will take some flak.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I just think that servers that force you to PvP(not all veteran servers) aren't reinforcing positive social interactions. I don't want to spawn with a DMR and go around shooting people, I'd much rather work my way up the ladder along others. And when you spawn with gear, there is less of an incentive to be friendly because survival doesn't mean much when you spawn back with good gear. I might not have made my meaning clear, and not all veteran serves must force you to play like that. Also, I feel like some people are in it for PvP and PvP only. that doesn't really leave much else to be achieved, eh?

 

I see what you're saying, I agree. Servers that start you off with gear are less hardcore/difficult in my opinion, that's why I was confused by what you said.

[mercules 1290]

Save your flares for a special occasion, Cap'n. This is just a wee butting of heads.

 

@ Mercules

Well, (if we're going for Meyer's Brigg's explanations) apparently I'm INTJ (strategist). And though I don't put much stock in it myself, it might explain my need to see every side of every argument.

 

Individual circumstances, accounting for all eventualities will end with us bogged down and getting nowhere. (case in point :D)

For the sake of furthering DayZ development; general rules, player-tendencies and estimation are the name of the game.

To that end, individual tit for tat and group-spanning petty squabbles are not in the least bit useful.

A call eventually will be made and regardless of outcome, Rocket will take some flak.

 

Yeah, I regularly butt heads with INTJs the two types are alike in many ways but one wants concrete conclusions and the other wants wiggle room, so to speak. Your type tends to come to the point you actually did in saying, "Yeah, yeah, but MOST OF THE TIME that doesn't mater so lets just say X." and my type tends to go, "Wait! We still have to consider those other times." just like we did. ;) Both types actually like to discuss things and dig a little deeper.