Hope to see standalone a little more RPG, a little less FPS

[OldMoto 2]

I think adding some roleplay mechanics can increase the fun

I train to explain myself, im not english and @work so be patience :-)

 

 

With a basic attribute system like you can customize a little more your character.

 

Ex:

Character creation - all attributes base is 5 point

You have 5 point to spend .

 

Strength: carry much, more melee damage, more resistant to damage and sickness

Intelligence: all skills (see below) increase fast, build/repair more things, increase medical skill

Agility: you are more fast, make less  noise, maybe special camouflage options?

 

 

With skills system you can do things and use tools.

Skills increase in time with train: no magic potions -  the more you do a thing , the more you learn from that.

You can try use a tool even without the relative skill, you give only less advantages from that tool.

Some "special" tools can require higher attributes and skills (ex: drive a )

 

Ex:

Military: better use of full-auto, sniper, light machine guns, anti-material guns

Survival: hunting-fishing-farming, better use of civilian (one-shot and semiauto) guns, crafting and sheltering

Engineering: build, fix, driving

Medical: make drugs, medications, cure from dependency/illness, give transfusions

 

 

So you don't need to be particulary skilled to use a Makarov or a double barrel shotty, sure if you grab a DMR you can pull the trigger but is less like you can hit your target from distance and you are more slow to recover from recoil and reload that thing, when you shoot it for some time (the more you do a thing, the more you learn from that) you became more proficient with that.

 

You don't need to be a survivalist to fill your canteen from a fountain.

But make your own food and drinks by catch gut and cook that small game is more difficult and proficient without hunting and fishing skills.

 

You can drive a car and change a broken wheel, but without some engineering skills you can't fix with spare parts an engine

 

 

And so on...

Edited August 23, 2013 by OldMoto

[dulix11 731]

Character creation, skills and attributes have rejected many times before.

 

Even rocket himself said he doesn't want a game based around numbers.

[OldMoto 2]

Character creation, skills and attributes have rejected many times before.

 

Even rocket himself said he doesn't want a game based around numbers.

 

Then sorry, and thank you for the clarification.

[CommanderX (DayZ) 52]

NO PLEASE GOD NO GOD NOOOOO :facepalm:

[rossums 2190]

Rocket has said before that he doesn't want it to be about 'levelling up' and having to allocate levels to skills etc.

What he did want is a way for you to become better/faster at certain actions the more they are done as you gain a sort of experience with the method - it's not going to be a player facing +XP or +level type thing though, just a hidden increase after it's been repeated enough and mastered.

[AP_Norris 1018]

It would just make it far more painful whenever you die from a silly alpha glitch or get shot by a really ignorant bandit :/

[thomas-tk@live.dk 39]

If its has to be more in the RPG genre, as you suggest, it will be more "role-playing" right, and not so much about (hopefully) engaging yourself in the game, but much more to put on a role.

[OldMoto 2]

Rocket has said before that he doesn't want it to be about 'levelling up' and having to allocate levels to skills etc.

What he did want is a way for you to become better/faster at certain actions the more they are done as you gain a sort of experience with the method - it's not going to be a player facing +XP or +level type thing though, just a hidden increase after it's been repeated enough and mastered.

 

Exactly

[AP_Norris 1018]

If its has to be more in the RPG genre, as you suggest, it will be more "role-playing" right, and not so much about (hopefully) engaging yourself in the game, but much more to put on a role.

Rocket has talked about a sort of class system that comes naturally by the stuff you choose to carry around.

For example one group member might be over watch with sniper etc etc, extra ammo for team since he doesn't so much specialise in anything other than sniping and recon.

Another person might be a mechanic carrying mostly tools and spare parts for improvised weapons and car fix ups.

The next might be combat medic carrying most of the meds.

There is a lot of different things that one could specialise in, and then they could always ,it to cover a wider range while carrying more gear meaning slower moving etc etc.

That's personally what I would want, too much useful stuff to carry on your lonesome.

If you wanna roll alone you won't be able to carry a lot of ammo and meds or tools kinda thing.

Which means you're probably going to have to sacrifice having a vehicle.

[OldMoto 2]

It would just make it far more painful whenever you die from a silly alpha glitch or get shot by a really ignorant bandit :/

 

Yes, even if you survive for 50 days and you mastered military skill you can be killed by a 0 days survivor wihout particural skills and with a single Makarov shot in the head, just like now

 

Or maybe the one who kill you is the same who bought from you that repair service he cannot do himself, and just you finish to repair his car that bastard shoot you in the head to gut you to and eat your flesh.

 

You die not only for zombies or other player, but also from malnourishment, or illness.

 

Death must be more painful, not only a 30 minute run through cherno/elektro to get the only 5 basic tools you need to survive

(hatchet, knife, matches, canteen, empty tin can) and you must reacquire the skill to understand how to use that 7,62x51 scoped gun without tremble too much - if you manage to find the ammo

 

Don't wanna some "word of warcraft" or other fantasy crap with that fancy magical sword and mystic robes

I'm thinking about "a canticle for leibowitz", "I am legend", "the road", "vic and blood"

 

But IMHO for that you need an almost basic attributes and skill system, think about fallout 3 - was a great success even if based on attributes, skills and other maths stuff: i'm sure lotta people can understand and manage a system with 3 attributes and 5 skills in 2013 :-)

[OldMoto 2]

Rocket has talked about a sort of class system that comes naturally by the stuff you choose to carry around.

For example one group member might be over watch with sniper etc etc, extra ammo for team since he doesn't so much specialise in anything other than sniping and recon.

Another person might be a mechanic carrying mostly tools and spare parts for improvised weapons and car fix ups.

The next might be combat medic carrying most of the meds.

There is a lot of different things that one could specialise in, and then they could always ,it to cover a wider range while carrying more gear meaning slower moving etc etc.

That's personally what I would want, too much useful stuff to carry on your lonesome.

If you wanna roll alone you won't be able to carry a lot of ammo and meds or tools kinda thing.

Which means you're probably going to have to sacrifice having a vehicle.

 

Mmh that's a sort of "dynamic" class driven by gear and not by skills If I understand well

[AP_Norris 1018]

Yes, even if you survive for 50 days and you mastered military skill you can be killed by a 0 days survivor wihout particural skills and with a single Makarov shot in the head, just like now

 

Or maybe the one who kill you is the same who bought from you that repair service he cannot do himself, and just you finish to repair his car that bastard shoot you in the head to gut you to and eat your flesh.

 

You die not only for zombies or other player, but also from malnourishment, or illness.

 

Death must be more painful, not only a 30 minute run through cherno/elektro to get the only 5 basic tools you need to survive

(hatchet, knife, matches, canteen, empty tin can) and you must reacquire the skill to understand how to use that 7,62x51 scoped gun without tremble too much - if you manage to find the ammo

 

Don't wanna some "word of warcraft" or other fantasy crap with that fancy magical sword and mystic robes

I'm thinking about "a canticle for leibowitz", "I am legend", "the road", "vic and blood"

 

But IMHO for that you need an almost basic attributes and skill system, think about fallout 3 - was a great success even if based on attributes, skills and other maths stuff: i'm sure lotta people can understand and manage a system with 3 attributes and 5 skills in 2013 :-)

If anything they should have rare books that you can learn special tricks from, like ammo reloading or nitrate cooking (homemade explosives) like a perk from fallout but from a rare book that can also be taught to others, lets say you have friendly encounter with a guy, he says your really nice :D I'm going to teach you to turn this fertiliser into a remotely detonated sack of explosive.

But even then, I hate the idea of having it so only one quarter of ppl can fly heli's or something, I mean my friends a pretty stable heli pilot and if any of my other friends got the pilot thing from spawn or something I wouldn't feel safe (I know that isn't really what the threads about but its another idea I don't like)

[AP_Norris 1018]

Mmh that's a sort of "dynamic" class driven by gear and not by skills If I understand well

Yep, u read my stuff well.

Not many can decode my English.

I like this sort of idea because it not only means you are tied to a couple roles at once which makes it harder for that guy on sniper hill in a ghillie to get the stuff he has alone.

That guy wanna heal? He gotta put tools away at base, and if his car goes put put brghh... he's walking home unless he can get to be friendly for a wee bit.

It puts greater emphases on teamwork and gives everybody a place in their team, usually its just separated by who's the best sniper or pilot, now its who has the tools for this car! Or I need some blood!

[OldMoto 2]

If anything they should have rare books that you can learn special tricks from, like ammo reloading or nitrate cooking (homemade explosives) like a perk from fallout but from a rare book that can also be taught to others, lets say you have friendly encounter with a guy, he says your really nice :D I'm going to teach you to turn this fertiliser into a remotely detonated sack of explosive.

But even then, I hate the idea of having it so only one quarter of ppl can fly heli's or something, I mean my friends a pretty stable heli pilot and if any of my other friends got the pilot thing from spawn or something I wouldn't feel safe (I know that isn't really what the threads about but its another idea I don't like)

 

I'm a big fan of fallout 1 and 2, play 3 as well, but I don't like the idea of "magic books" like "magic potions" that teach you something without getting experience, so I prefer a "transparent to player" system based on how much you practice that skill - but some kind of "blueprint" requirement - you must have the skill, attributes AND acquire in some manner the blueprint can be ok for me.

 

And now that your friend has invested time and skills to know how to drive an helicopter, but is not so good as you with guns and has less strength, he need you more to defend his life, and you need him to drive that heli - so although he is not so good with that fancy sniper guns is really one of the damn important man of the group.

 

Something like that happens in the current dayz too:

In my experience i see in a group of people play together most of the time there's a preferred driver, and people are more happy if the heli is driven by your aged and skilled pilot and not the last man that join your clan

[OldMoto 2]

Yep, u read my stuff well.

Not many can decode my English.

I like this sort of idea because it not only means you are tied to a couple roles at once which makes it harder for that guy on sniper hill in a ghillie to get the stuff he has alone.

That guy wanna heal? He gotta put tools away at base, and if his car goes put put brghh... he's walking home unless he can get to be friendly for a wee bit.

It puts greater emphases on teamwork and gives everybody a place in their team, usually its just separated by who's the best sniper or pilot, now its who has the tools for this car! Or I need some blood!

 

It's a nice idea but on the other side it means you can transform yourself in a medic in a matter of seconds by carry a epi-pen or antibiotics...

It's too much like swallow that magical potion or carry that magical sword

[rpatto92@hotmail.com 26]

It's already been stated that the equivalent and closest thing you'll get to progressive skills in dayz is finding better gear, learning about the game and maintaining your characters health/fitness/nutrition.

[harley001 315]

You should be playing S.T.A.L.K.E.R if you want a RPG version of dayz.  I don't want too many RPG mechanics in dayz.  

[liquidcactus 719]

there def needs more immersion and shit cluttered in the streets etc.. to make it feel more PWN

[joe_mcentire 2074]

anything that achieves a getting away from pure "progression through gear" gets a yes from me

[AP_Norris 1018]

It's a nice idea but on the other side it means you can transform yourself in a medic in a matter of seconds by carry a epi-pen or antibiotics...

It's too much like swallow that magical potion or carry that magical sword

I think, most things you can find come with simple instruction nowadays.

Helicopters might come with handbooks similar to cars giving an explanation of basic controls.

And of course a basic understanding of a helicopter works and the rest comes with practice, or... Natural talent, some players don't start out the best pilots there we go, a natural deviation of skill.

As with the medicine, how do I administer this extremely strong painkiller? O look there is stuff written on it.

I see no problem with so called magic books, because they do make sense the first step to learning something is understanding, next is jumping in and practicing which a player may or may not be good at, why say... Lower sensitivity or give random errors for a first time flier when it could just be determined by player skill (not all players are the best pilots) not all players get heli's... Wait... Why am I talking about heli's, did anybody mention heli's?

Yea but medicines will mostly have some simple directions.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I would like a bigger accent on using real life knowledge. It's only fair that if good reflexes reward you for shooting, having a chemistry or electrical RL backjground should help you in those tasks in the game.

 

A 'skill' system would put everyone on the same level for certain things, yet a lot of things would still be player based, and nobody is really equal, lets face it.

 

Why not go all player based and reward real knowledge?

 

Of course there is always "wikis", but a well implemented chemistry system would require from you a more intimate knowledge of chemistry that would distinguish players who understand chemistry from players following "recipes".

Edited August 27, 2013 by Lady Kyrah

[OldMoto 2]

I would like a bigger accent on using real life knowledge. It's only fair that if good reflexes reward you for shooting, having a chemistry or electrical RL backjground should help you in those tasks in the game.

 

A 'skill' system would put everyone on the same level for certain things, yet a lot of things would still be player based, and nobidy is really equal, lets face it.

 

Why not go all player based and reward real knowledge?

 

Of course there is always "wikis", but a well implemented chemistry system would require from you a more intimate knowledge of chemistry that would distinguish players who understand chemistry from players following "recipes".

 

A real-knowledge system would be wonderful, but I think is almost impossible to implement and imho you risk to overburden to game.

At best you can have a crafting system system driven by gear and/or prerequisites (recipes) but as you already stated, you can simply go to wikipages for the knowledge.

 

That's why I like to think a driven-by-experience-and-gear system is better than a driven-by-gear-only system.

 

I repeat, I think a kind of "experience" system that is fully "transparent" to player, so you don't need to manage XP point;

No XP point on your HUD (I like no HUD at all), you gain experience in a natural way just while you play as normal.

So you are better than another player not just because you drink/read/carry an item, but because you are have "learned" to survive more long so you are more "skilled"

 

Just make things a little more difficult the first time you use that sniper gun -  make your aim tremble and/or lower the probabilities to hit your target at x mt. of distance - i'm sure something like is not so difficult to implement at programming level - actually in the mod when you feel pain your hands tremble and you need to take a painkiller, so I think is not so a big change on the overall gameplay.

 

You can continue to play as you want just like now, you just need need x experience (and a attributes like intelligence can lower that time) to master that sniper rifle.

 

Surely there are pro and cons too in every kind of approach, but I think a system like this can - for example - reward your "survival time" (a 30 days survivor can be more tough and hard to die than a 0 dayz survivor) and encourage player interaction for fresh spawns (at day 0 you are more weak).

 

The worst can be a more hard learning curve that can discourage causal players or players who like to play games like <insertyourfavoriteFPShere> 

 

I'm sure (and that's not problem with that) not everyone like to play a game where you cannot fire immediately the BFG gun, so bohemia can make less ;) but i heard of a game called wordofwarcraft full of stats attibutes and buttons in the interface and is still played by millions of people who pay for play ;-)

 

As my topic speaks, imho a bit - and I say in the title-  a bit more complexity can significantly raise the game fun and immersion.

[indalcecio 23]

Many people have stated this more eloquently than I, and I've said this several times, but one of the thing I've always loved about DayZ is that "stats" are emergent. Technically speaking, the second you spawn, you're equal to someone who's been alive for a month. Equipment is another story but aside from that...

 

Your "intelligence" stat is how much you KNOW about how to play the game, like knowing how to flank, walking with a hill on one side of you, not shooting right away but waiting to ambush someone, etc. Your "STR/DAM" stat is how good of a shot you are, how many of your shots actually hit someone. You can even learn how to talk to people if you want to be friendly, learn to not point your gun at them if you want to roll for "persuasion", and just generally how good you are at convincing people not to kill you in the 1.8 seconds it takes for them to decide....that is your "Charisma" stat.

 

Also, obviously someone who has been collecting loot and learning the game for a month without dying is going to be at an advantage as opposed to someone who just started and is a fresh spawn. That's normal, but I think adding stats like this would have the effect of making even harder for fresh spawns who have to start over, and in a way that would be detrimental to the game in general IMO. Unless of course your "stats" persisted after death, and in DayZ I think that's simply out of the question for the sole reason that this IS DAYZ.

[OldMoto 2]

Many people have stated this more eloquently than I, and I've said this several times, but one of the thing I've always loved about DayZ is that "stats" are emergent. Technically speaking, the second you spawn, you're equal to someone who's been alive for a month. Equipment is another story but aside from that...

 

Your "intelligence" stat is how much you KNOW about how to play the game, like knowing how to flank, walking with a hill on one side of you, not shooting right away but waiting to ambush someone, etc. Your "STR/DAM" stat is how good of a shot you are, how many of your shots actually hit someone. You can even learn how to talk to people if you want to be friendly, learn to not point your gun at them if you want to roll for "persuasion", and just generally how good you are at convincing people not to kill you in the 1.8 seconds it takes for them to decide....that is your "Charisma" stat.

 

Also, obviously someone who has been collecting loot and learning the game for a month without dying is going to be at an advantage as opposed to someone who just started and is a fresh spawn. That's normal, but I think adding stats like this would have the effect of making even harder for fresh spawns who have to start over, and in a way that would be detrimental to the game in general IMO. Unless of course your "stats" persisted after death, and in DayZ I think that's simply out of the question for the sole reason that this IS DAYZ.

 

I'm thinking pretty same as you about the three attributes I mentioned before - like strength, intelligence and agility.

And I like very much the no-level no-skills no-frills of dayz.

 

But maybe can be better if you can't repair an engine in 4-5 second with only an ItemToolbox

 

In fact i'm not so sure about introducing an STR/INT/AGI system - it can be a "boost" for the time you need to "learn" something to master that things and maybe some kind of "prerequisites" to use the best end-game equipment (es: you can need an INT >5 to became a 100% "little sure shot" Annie Oakley's son :)

 

I'm sure that driven-by-gear-and-experience system i'm talking about is not perfect - for example it can't be too "hard" because if you die you need more time to "rebuild" your character and lose everything you learn and you own so it can be very frustrating.

 

I think adding just a little more complexity can make this great game even more fun and interesting - but surely i don't know how much of this "complexity" is need and especially how much is worth (if "the game is worth the candle")

[NightmareGER 21]

I do hope i get the usual Arma Character customization. I was not pleased at Gamescom that you spawn with a randomized character.

 

I wanna create something that at least looks a bit like myself.