Please improve 9mm damage.

[plexico 386]

 There was a gun nerf a while back, made all pistols incredibly weak other than the .45s. They currently do 889 blood damage a shot, and if you do the math that means you could shoot someone in the chest with a full clip with a Makarov, and they still have a good chance of surviving. I've tried to overpower people with the Makarov and sadly I suck too bad to get headshots, resulting in me getting completely demolished even though I put 10 shots into the dude. 

 

    So what I'm saying is, the damage is currently ridiculous and needs to be improved to be more realistic.

[Jordan* 277]

This has been mentioned many many times, but it has yet to be addressed.

 

It really does need to be fixed. 

[Korsbaek 1778]

I thought it was nerfed in the latest patch.. Isn't it like 2000 damage for a Makarov now?

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

All shall be fixed come the SA my child... Be patient grasshopper.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

Gews and I have discussed this and ballistics in general at least 9 times.  I am pretty sure Rocket knows.  

 

 

 

EDIT:  I forgot Chabowski

Edited August 14, 2013 by Vindicator

[AP_Norris 1018]

I remember this amazing shot I got with a Glock 17 it must've been atleast 100metres and I got a headshot.

It might've been wasteland tho. Probably wasteland...

Don't try to overpower with such bad guns just go in quietly and go for a headshot from the shadows.

But yes I agree, if somebody gets shot in the chest with a 9mm it breaks ribs it punctures lungs all sorts.

9mm ain't exactly a bb gun.

Edited August 14, 2013 by AP_Norris

[Dagwood 680]

It's a balance and authenticity issue. If the 9mm does realistic damage then so does every other gun. Which means a 5.56 will knock you out or at least stun you with one shot and very round larger than that would nearly kill you or at least incapacitate you. At which point every gun would feel like the fifties did and we'd all be getting killed in the opening shots of every fire fight.

All shooters right now for the most part underpower firearms in comparison to their real world counterparts to compensate for how much easier it is to aim in a videogame vs in real life. We will likely never see this fixed in analog shooters.

[AP_Norris 1018]

It's a balance and authenticity issue. If the 9mm does realistic damage then so does every other gun. Which means a 5.56 will knock you out or at least stun you with one shot and very round larger than that would nearly kill you or at least incapacitate you. At which point every gun would feel like the fifties did and we'd all be getting killed in the opening shots of every fire fight.

All shooters right now for the most part underpower firearms in comparison to their real world counterparts to compensate for how much easier it is to aim in a videogame vs in real life. We will likely never see this fixed in analog shooters.

The 7.62 snipers knock you out into a almost dead state in a single shot.

I don't see why we can't just make the guns realistic, its a apocalypse simulator in a sense, all guns kill with a single headshot anyway why should you be rewarded for accuracy so much when so often its just a panicky CQ fire fight? And in that situation most headshot will be pure fluke.

5.56 aren't overly powerful but their speed and penetrating power is good.

7.62 assault rifles need to kill in about two shots, they are slower but have a lot more stopping power I'm not sure how its penetrating power stands up to 5.56 AR tho.

9mm should be ineffective against ballistic vests but when players are unarmored it should cause the sort of critical damage to the chest you'd expect, never insta kills but possibly cracked ribs which should greatly affect a players stamina.

A shot may manage to penetrate through the rub cage with chance and possibly puncture the lungs (mostly only when their ribs are already broken) I'm not sure if stopping blood running into someone's lung should actually be implemented with the healing system, I get the idea it would require some sort of surgery, but IDK.

[itsDIETZ 20]

I thought it was nerfed in the latest patch.. Isn't it like 2000 damage for a Makarov now?

They made it like 1389 or something, and the 1911 do 4500, but it still doesn't work to my knowledge. I tested it on some buddies and damage is the same

[itsDIETZ 20]

What bothers me is with the way damage is now and has been, pistols, 9mm subs, and the like aren't worth a damn. You are better off defending yourself from players with a hatchet.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

The 7.62 snipers knock you out into a almost dead state in a single shot.

I don't see why we can't just make the guns realistic, its a apocalypse simulator in a sense, all guns kill with a single headshot anyway why should you be rewarded for accuracy so much when so often its just a panicky CQ fire fight? And in that situation most headshot will be pure fluke.

5.56 aren't overly powerful but their speed and penetrating power is good.

7.62 assault rifles need to kill in about two shots, they are slower but have a lot more stopping power I'm not sure how its penetrating power stands up to 5.56 AR tho.

9mm should be ineffective against ballistic vests but when players are unarmored it should cause the sort of critical damage to the chest you'd expect, never insta kills but possibly cracked ribs which should greatly affect a players stamina.

A shot may manage to penetrate through the rub cage with chance and possibly puncture the lungs (mostly only when their ribs are already broken) I'm not sure if stopping blood running into someone's lung should actually be implemented with the healing system, I get the idea it would require some sort of surgery, but IDK.

I hate it when people talk about realistic bullet damage and they say 'should kill in 2 shots' or 'does 5000 damage', because that's not realistic either. Would two bullets in the leg instantly kill you? That's no more likely to happen than a person walking away from a full magazine of makarov rounds. Now, I'm not claiming to be an expert on ballistics, but to have a realistic damage system you should have a lot of hitboxes on the player, for major organs, body parts, appendages, etc. There shouldn't be a chance to get a critical hit or injury, it should be based on where you hit them. Then the game decides if the trauma will kill you instantly or in a few seconds, if you'll bleed to death if not treated, or if you will die without use of that organ, and bullet size should make these things more likely. It doesn't have to be a full simulation of the human body, but I don't see why something like this can't be done. VBS2's health system is far superior to ArmA's, so I would even be satisfied with that.

[plexico 386]

Now lets not get carried away here, for the most part all other guns are as realistic as they need to be but 9mms are simply ridiculous, it's like I'm shooting a water gun.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

for the most part all other guns are as realistic as they need to be

Why is that? Why can't we have more realistic guns? I'm not the only one who gets annoyed that you could graze someone's shoulder 4 or 5 times with an AK and kill them. No, guns in general need to be more realistic, because it is entirely possible to survive as many 9mm bullets as the norm in the current DayZ mod, just very unlikely. The health system is definitely a step up above a generic shooter where you are either dead or completely healthy, but guns are too powerful in some ways and too weak in others. They could use a lot of work.

[plexico 386]

Why is that? Why can't we have more realistic guns? I'm not the only one who gets annoyed that you could graze someone's shoulder 4 or 5 times with an AK and kill them. No, guns in general need to be more realistic, because it is entirely possible to survive as many 9mm bullets as the norm in the current DayZ mod, just very unlikely. The health system is definitely a step up above a generic shooter where you are either dead or completely healthy, but guns are too powerful in some ways and too weak in others. They could use a lot of work.

I very strongly agree, all guns seem to need a change atleast slightly. Also.. I don't know for sure but I have heard that your shoulders contain very important blood vessels and contrary to popular belief if you get shot in the shoulder there is a high chance you will bleed out in a few minutes, so I don't know what kind of damage 4-5 bullets in the shoulder can cause.

[AP_Norris 1018]

What bothers me is with the way damage is now and has been, pistols, 9mm subs, and the like aren't worth a damn. You are better off defending yourself from players with a hatchet.

This one time a guy shot a whole MP5 mag at me when my back was turned, I shot him once with the AKM and he fell over XD, serves him right for being a KOS dick tho.

[LancerG2 369]

I remember this amazing shot I got with a Glock 17 it must've been atleast 100metres and I got a headshot.

It might've been wasteland tho. Probably wasteland...

Don't try to overpower with such bad guns just go in quietly and go for a headshot from the shadows.

But yes I agree, if somebody gets shot in the chest with a 9mm it breaks ribs it punctures lungs all sorts.

9mm ain't exactly a bb gun.

 

Congratulations on such an amazing shot. Must be a odd feat.

[AP_Norris 1018]

I hate it when people talk about realistic bullet damage and they say 'should kill in 2 shots' or 'does 5000 damage', because that's not realistic either. Would two bullets in the leg instantly kill you? That's no more likely to happen than a person walking away from a full magazine of makarov rounds. Now, I'm not claiming to be an expert on ballistics, but to have a realistic damage system you should have a lot of hitboxes on the player, for major organs, body parts, appendages, etc. There shouldn't be a chance to get a critical hit or injury, it should be based on where you hit them. Then the game decides if the trauma will kill you instantly or in a few seconds, if you'll bleed to death if not treated, or if you will die without use of that organ, and bullet size should make these things more likely. It doesn't have to be a full simulation of the human body, but I don't see why something like this can't be done. VBS2's health system is far superior to ArmA's, so I would even be satisfied with that.

I like the sound of critical hits on organs.

And being killed by trauma.

Maybe have a sort of resistance level of the body. What I mean by that is I I hit you in the arm with a speedy and pointy 5.56 it wouldn't count only as a hit on the arm, it would travel through the arm and anything behind it which might be a lung or heart.

Then you would have to give each type a round a penetration factor for the type or round and velocity it travels at.

So a 9mm might not be able to go right through somebody's arm and into their chest, but a sniper should do that great.

[itsDIETZ 20]

Now lets not get carried away here, for the most part all other guns are as realistic as they need to be but 9mms are simply ridiculous, it's like I'm shooting a water gun.

 

Why is that? Why can't we have more realistic guns? I'm not the only one who gets annoyed that you could graze someone's shoulder 4 or 5 times with an AK and kill them. No, guns in general need to be more realistic, because it is entirely possible to survive as many 9mm bullets as the norm in the current DayZ mod, just very unlikely. The health system is definitely a step up above a generic shooter where you are either dead or completely healthy, but guns are too powerful in some ways and too weak in others. They could use a lot of work.

Most of the guns are pretty well balanced but I agree with Clumzy on the AK issue, the 5.45 rounds should be on par with 5.56. 

[psylnz 34]

Can anybody confirm weather or not the 1911 does 4500 blood damage now?

 

And is this a DayZ thing or an Arma2 thing?

Edited September 5, 2013 by Psylnz

[Sutinen 635]

Can anybody confirm weather or not the 1911 does 4500 blood damage now?

 

And is this a DayZ thing or an Arma2 thing?

DayZ thing

[m.w. vindicator 880]

From another topic, my post

 

 

This has been discussed 2,439,482 times.  

 

 

 

 

We can all agree that the current mod is unrealistic and unauthentic in the category of damage/ballistics.  

 

 Personally I really don't like the idea of hit points.  In arma 2 people have hit points I believe.   

 

 

Damage should be modular.  As in, if shot in the head, the brain "module" and the character will suffer death as a consequence.  If shot in the upper chest the player's lungs module or heart module will be damaged/destroyed.  If shot in the lower chest, a players "guts" module will take damage.  legs and arms will be modules too.  Death occurs when modules take a critical life ending damage.  If the heart is destroyed death occurs in a few seconds.  If a leg or arm module is completely destroyed (blown off) catastrophic bleeding will occur causing the player to go unconscious and bleed out in roughly 30 seconds.  

 

If a players lungs are totally destroyed (rifle round in the upper chest) death will be quick.  If damaged (lets say by a pistol round) death will not come instantly but the person will die soon from internal and external bleeding and suffocation.  

 

 

One thing that probably shouldn't be added is very slow inevitable deaths because that isn't fun.  Lets say you get shot in the gut by a Makarov.  The round tears up your intestines, stomach, and liver.  You are going to die.  IRL death might come after several hours or days.  Ingame this would be too realistic and the player should die much quicker so they could restart with a new character and begin having more fun.  Instead of hours maybe you might die in five minutes or so.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vindicator's percentages of lethality

 

NOTE: I am not an expert and this is MY (likely worthless) opinion.  

 

The scenario is that you are standing 15m away from someone who is looking away from you.  he is a bandit so you decide to kill him. He has no armor.  You have a *insert weapon*

 

 

Makarov:  

 

            caliber: 9x18mm

 

you shoot him in the head once.

 

% chance of  death: 100%  (from) brain module destroyed, catastrophic bleeding.

 

you shoot him in the upper chest once.

 

% chance of death: 33% (from) heart destroyed, catastrophic hemorrhaging

% chance of survival:   66% could have damaged lung.  Will suffer bleeding.  If bleeding isn't stopped death will likely occur in 20 mins. 

 

shoot him twice.

 

% chance of death: 66% (from) one hit to the lung and one hit to the heart causing heart destroyed and catastrophic hemorrhaging OR two hits to the lungs causing damage and then destruction of the lungs causing death.  

%chance of survival 33%:  could have damaged lung.  Will suffer heavy bleeding.  If bleeding isn't stopped death will likely occur in less than 5 mins.  

 

shoot him three times.

%chance of death: 99%  (from) heart destroyed by a bullet OR  Lungs destroyed by (at least) two bullets OR lungs damaged by one buller and critical bleeding from the other two bullets.  

%chance of survival 1% but could have damaged lung.  Will suffer critical bleeding.  Death likely in 1 min if no treatment received to stop bleeding. 

 

 

You shoot him in the lower chest

 

Once.

 

Chance of death:  25% (from) guts destroyed.

Chance of survival 75%  but could have damaged guts. Will suffer bleeding and death will likely occur in 20 mins if not stopped.

 

Twice. 

 

chance of death: 50% (from) guts destroyed.

Chance of survival: 50%.  could have damaged guts.  Will suffer heavy bleeding and death will likely occur in 10-15mins if not stopped. 

 

Three times

Chance of death:75% (from) guts destroyed

Chance of survival: 25% could have damaged guts and will suffer severe bleeding and death will come in 5 mins if not stopped.  

 

Four times:

Chance of death: 100% ( you know why by this point)

 

You shoot him in the legs (right, left or both)

 

Once

Chance of death: 0% but will suffer bleeding. 25mins till death if not stopped

Twice

0% but will suffer heavy bleeding.  15-20mins till death

Three times

chance of death: 30% (from) leg module destroyed. and catastrophic bleeding.

if survives: will suffer severe bleeding and will die in about 5-10 mins if bleeding doesn't stop.

Four times.  

60% of death from destroyed leg module.

Critical Bleeding and death in a few minutes if not stopped. 

Five times.  

90% chance of death.  Rest same as above.

Six shots to the leg will cause death no matter what in a matter of seconds.  

 

Being shot in the arms would behave like being shot in the legs but less durable.  5 shots to the arms would be fatal very quickly.

 

 

 

 

That is how the Makarov and other 9x18mm weapons should work IMO.

 

 

 

 

9x19 would behave similarly but slightly more lethal (approx. 10-20% more lethal depending on hit locations)

 

.45 ACP/11.43x23 would behave similarly but more lethal (approx. 30-50% more lethal depeding once again on locations.)

 

5.56 and 5.45  would have 50%-100% more lethality.  A single center of mass shot will severely maim and will cause death most of the time but surviving is possible.

 

7.62x39 would have maybe around 50%-150% more lethality. Same as above for the most part.  Ballistics can be weird here though.  Some times intermediate caliber rifle rounds over penetrate causing less damage.

 

7.62x51 and 7.62x54 would have 75%-200% more lethality.  Shots in the arms and legs could be survivable (with much bleeding   ^_^ ) but good luck with chest shots.  Survival would be quite rare.

 

 

Anything above that caliber would be blowing legs and arms off pretty frequently.  .338 Lapua would be maul folks.

 

 

 

12 guage would be very lethal 15m.   High chance of damaging many modules and causing tons of bleeding.  

 

 

Pistols would loose a lot of effectiveness past 50m. Shotgun pellets would have similar range.

 

SMGs would loose effectiveness between 75m-200m depeding greatly on the model and caliber.  

 

Intermediate calibers could reach out and touch people out to around 250m-300m

 

Rifles would still do serious harm well over 500m.  1000m would be a stretch.  (That guy on Electro Hill with a Mosin-Nagant or a Mauser 98 would be deadly.  But why is here wasting his limited ammo?  He won't even be able to get good gear b/c it'll be torn up) .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay there is my opinion.  Feel free to critique it.  Also if someone wants to make there own Percentage charts that would be very cool!   B)

[Mos1ey 6301]

TBH I'd like to see the max. blood level dropped to about 8,000. I've always thought it was a little high in DayZ.

[AP_Norris 1018]

TBH I'd like to see the max. blood level dropped to about 8,000. I've always thought it was a little high in DayZ.

But then a 7.62 sniper will 1HK to the guts.

I wanna see a revamp to the hit boxes.

Judged by actual organ positions and not just areas of the body.

[Dekkymane 145]

Doesent the PMC driver skin have a 9mm bullet resistant vest? I think that's why, because in normal Arma 2, the PMC skins (known as survivor skin for dayz nubs) can reduce the damage of 9mm.

[Skat3rat 1633]

SNIP

 

I like the idea.  However I think that your ideas about how fast someone dies, is a little too fast(Unless this is realistic).