Why People Shoot On Sight And How To Fix That

[carbine781 (DayZ) 131]

PLEASE REMEMBER THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION. IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH IT, PLEASE DON'T BE RUDE ABOUT IT.

 

And Yes, I know the post is long, but i think this could significantly help the game (that being said, i did write it :P)

 

First things first, I'm fine with banditry, in fact, I like playing as a bandit. What i don't like are people who just shoot on sight for no real reason. "Why not?" they think. "Whats the big deal?"

When DayZ standalone first came out, it was a game about survival. People would try to team up with people to help them survive in the harsh world. Although bandits were around back then, they would kill to take your supplies, another form of survival. Unfortunately, lately, people just shoot on sight for the hell of shooting. Here are some reasons:

• Zombie's are easy to avoid
• Easy to survive with very little supplies
• Boredom
• Theres No Risk In Firing GunShots

Basically, people realized that you don't need to befriend people to survive because you don't need their help. Bandits no longer think twice on wether it's better to rob or shoot you because they no longer have a fear of gunshots attracting zombies; zombies are easy to get away from. Long story short, people realized that it was very easy to survive without much effort.

 

One of my posts I made was a guide on how to get up north. It had a long list of supplies you would need to survive. Many people commented saying "I just find a hatchet, a can of beans, 1-2 cokes, and i easily get to stary sober(a town in the north incase you didn't know)". That right there tells me, there is something wrong with the game!

 

Anyway, here were some ideas on how to fix this:

 

1. Make Zombies Dangerous!

 

Make it a big deal to fire gunshots again. Make robbing people an alternative instead of just shooting them. A few changes i think that should happen is making zombies swarm more, and do more damage when aggravated. Make them have a 30% change of bleeding you, and then another 30% of getting an infection if they make you bleed. Maybe you can make them harder to attract(without gunfire) to balance it out.

 

Also, even though I admit I use this, get rid of the glitches that allow you to hide in a tree and they lose sight of you (i'm not talking about dodging trees, but finding a nearby pine tree, and just hiding in it's leaves. The zombies will run to you, and then when they are just a foot away, turn around). Also let them run in buildings.

 

If zombies are after you, they will begin to swarm. Then, you need to fire gunshots. This is where teamwork is needed. If you find somebody, you'll need and want there help.

 

2. Make it harder to go long distances

 

They need to do some adjustments on stamina. I'm not talking about pulling a WarZ where you can only sprint for 10 seconds before resting. Make it so a person can jog for a long time, but slowly slows down. After maybe 10-15 minutes or so of constant jogging, the player needs to rest for a minute or so. If you are in a dangerous situation however (zombies chasing you), your character will know and you will bypass this, allowing you to keep running until you are in a safe location (or at least your character thinks so). That being said, don't make it too easy, where you can outrun zombies easily. If you aren't able to lose them through a giant forest, your gun must come to use.

 

Make it so you also lose stamina when you are running up hills. When you are jogging for a long time, especially up steep hills, you become thirsty. Make sure that you need to drink more often. I'm fine with the way hunger is set up to be honest.

 

So, what does this do?

Zombies are now more dangerous, and it's harder to travel by yourself. You now need the help of other people in order to survive the zombies if they begin attacking you. Since it is hard to travel, you also need a friend to help you out, especially if you are in a dire situation. Bandits may resort to robbing instead of killing now, and this should definitely help the shoot on sight problem because firing your weapon is a bigger risk now.

 

 

Hope you enjoyed. Any comments or concerns, please comment it below.

-Carbine781

Edited August 6, 2013 by carbine781

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

Is that Fraggles custom avatar?

[Hockeyguy 107]

The only way to shop KoS is for people to stop shooting others.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Hockeyguy

[SergeantSquiggs 77]

We should think about the zombies' feelings, Im sure they don't like being KoS'ed either :(  #zombierights420

[carbine781 (DayZ) 131]

Is that Fraggles custom avatar?

Yea. He even said it fitted me :)

[carbine781 (DayZ) 131]

The only way to shop KoS is for people to stop shooting others.

The solutions given on the post make shooting more dangerous, and make people think twice. It also makes befriending somebody an important aspect of survival, so this would help out a lot.

[Inception. 9443]

I can survive perfectly fine alone. I need not have another person, even with the occasional limited sprint. So, I'll go and shoot everyone, thus ruining your theory. Or, I'll get a friend to help me if necessary, and then we'll go and shoot everyone. 

 

This must be the fourth post lately about how to "stop" Killing on Sight". They all possess similar arguments, especially the "make zombies more difficult" one. Killing on sight can never be "fixed".

 

However, I still would love for zombies to be far more difficult, as you suggested.

[CS14 133]

I'll still KOS.. because I can. :D

[carbine781 (DayZ) 131]

I can survive perfectly fine alone. I need not have another person, even with the occasional limited sprint. So, I'll go and shoot everyone, thus ruining your theory. Or, I'll get a friend to help me if necessary, and then we'll go and shoot everyone. 

 

This must be the fourth post lately about how to "stop" Killing on Sight". They all possess similar arguments, especially the "make zombies more difficult" one. Killing on sight can never be "fixed".

 

However, I still would love for zombies to be far more difficult, as you suggested.

With my plan, firing shots would be a lot more risky; You'd probably died if you ambushed somebody in cherno and you didn't have a planned escape route.

[Welch (DayZ) 756]

You cannot make zeds more dangerous until they're fixed and pretty much perfect. Who's going to play DayZ when the zombies are powerful, but they can also hit through walls and hit you from a distance, like it is now. 

Otherwise, I'm down.

[creature 1189]

Good idea's but, I don't see those things stopping kos. It's the nature of the game. Harder z's? Killing and looting players leaving big towns will give more reward for potentially less risk. Weight system works to a degree but it's limited. It's been used in other mods like Epoch. It IS much harder to kill passing players when you can't focus or stop shaking but it's easy enough to work around once you figure it out. . 

 

In the end, it's people that create the kos mentality in a sandbox environment. 

[pwnage13371 147]

You probably don't understand arma's mechanics. 

 

You do go slower when you walk a long distance. When you sprint (double tap W) you start moving slower faster.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Not that you haven't made good points, because you have. I actually have a video of a zombie glitching out and not being able to attack me because of the building I was on, so yeah, they need to fix that stuff.

 

That being said, nothing is going to stop "KoS". People will always do what they want, and some of them just want to kill. Even then, they should be allowed to do that. It's an efficient means of survival sometimes.

 

However, players who want to be able to team up and do pve or group pvp stuff need gameplay mechanics that they can use. That's why the standalone is adding things like radios, for example. People need the means to communicate on neutral terms if they are ever going to cooperate.

 

Furthermore, we need gameplay objectives for groups to use. Every time I say this, some idiot shouts "BUT THAT PUNISHES LONE WOLVES HERG." Well it simply does not.

 

Currently, a person on their own generally can't accomplish anything very large in scope. If you're really lucky maybe you can set up a little base for yourself, and that's how it should be. However, when multiple players are cooperating, they should be able to accomplish larger goals. The thing is, when a group of players who want to do group stuff build a big base and put a bunch of supplies in there, it can actually be to the benefit of a lone wolf, since the loner can either a: trade for supplies they need, or b: bandit the camp and steal the supplies they want.

 

There are some players who want to play constructively; and there are some who want to play destructively. The game should not deny either type of player the opportunity, and if you really think about it - giving the constructive players something to construct actually gives the destructive players something to destroy.

[Hetstaine 10852]

 Killing on sight can never be "fixed".

 

 

 

 

 ^ 

[carbine781 (DayZ) 131]

Not that you haven't made good points, because you have. I actually have a video of a zombie glitching out and not being able to attack me because of the building I was on, so yeah, they need to fix that stuff.

 

That being said, nothing is going to stop "KoS". People will always do what they want, and some of them just want to kill. Even then, they should be allowed to do that. It's an efficient means of survival sometimes.

 

However, players who want to be able to team up and do pve or group pvp stuff need gameplay mechanics that they can use. That's why the standalone is adding things like radios, for example. People need the means to communicate on neutral terms if they are ever going to cooperate.

 

Furthermore, we need gameplay objectives for groups to use. Every time I say this, some idiot shouts "BUT THAT PUNISHES LONE WOLVES HERG." Well it simply does not.

 

Currently, a person on their own generally can't accomplish anything very large in scope. If you're really lucky maybe you can set up a little base for yourself, and that's how it should be. However, when multiple players are cooperating, they should be able to accomplish larger goals. The thing is, when a group of players who want to do group stuff build a big base and put a bunch of supplies in there, it can actually be to the benefit of a lone wolf, since the loner can either a: trade for supplies they need, or b: bandit the camp and steal the supplies they want.

 

There are some players who want to play constructively; and there are some who want to play destructively. The game should not deny either type of player the opportunity, and if you really think about it - giving the constructive players something to construct actually gives the destructive players something to destroy.

Killing on sight isn't an affective way of survival unless you are planning on looting them. Whats the point of killing a fresh spawn? All it accomplishes is wasting bullets.

I agree with everything else you said. You have my beans.

[carbine781 (DayZ) 131]

You probably don't understand arma's mechanics. 

 

You do go slower when you walk a long distance. When you sprint (double tap W) you start moving slower faster.

I do understand. I said that over time, if you feel safe, you'll have to take a break from jogging (because nobody can jog forever). However, no madder how tired you are, if you feel like you are in danger, then should be able to keep running.

[GoldenPSP 24]

The solutions given on the post make shooting more dangerous, and make people think twice. It also makes befriending somebody an important aspect of survival, so this would help out a lot.

 

Except it doesn't.

 

[edit]

 

To elaborate, your premise on why people KOS is flawed.  And your proposed solutions do little to counteract the KOS mentality.

 

People will KOS because they can.  Making the game harder makes looting a player you just killed still more value.  Killing a player is more risky?  So a bandit can work with a bandit friend, one sniping from afar, the other sneaking through town looting the corpse.

 

Either way, there is still little incentive to work together.

Edited August 7, 2013 by GoldenPSP

[phL (DayZ) 63]

think of a sandbox where you have like 99% non-hostile items and 1% weapons. the weapons are weak, lets say the makarov is the new DMR. ammo is scarce.

 

the zombies are:

 

-faster than you, so no easy running away

-really strong (hp), like bodyshots would only slow them down

-harder, more knockdowns, more damage, more bleeding, maybe same infection :)

-massive in numbers

-easily attracted by sound (i mean if you fire a hunting rifle in a forest you can hear the shot for some kilometers in reality)

-.... just damn HARD zombies

 

 

they would pose a bigger thread than other players. i think that's all you need to reduce KoS to a minimum. not that it should disappear, it is part of the game and the fun. but by making it so much harder to get a.) geared up to pose a threat to other players and b.) fire shots without getting killed afterwards, the "CoD players (no offense...)" would lose interest as the sandbox settings would not fit their preferred playstyle anymore.

 

now there is no point in working together against the zombies. playstyles would change if there was one.

 

my opinion, in short, it's a wide topic...

 

 

 

"Making the game harder makes looting a player you just killed still more value.  Killing a player is more risky?  So a bandit can work with a bandit friend, one sniping from afar, the other sneaking through town looting the corpse."

 

 

this is working together. also you need a bandit friend.

Edited August 8, 2013 by phL

[GoldenPSP 24]

this is working together. also you need a bandit friend.

 

Didn't say it wasn't working together.  But this thread wasn't about just working together, it's about lowering the KOS mentality.  This "team" would likely still KOS anyone else.

[phL (DayZ) 63]

i think KoS is part of the game. it should just be not that easy and have a fair risk of consequences...

[gregor (DayZ) 95]

I see these suggestions as good suggestions, in overall. Really, zeds seem strange and weak if we consider that they already conquered almost whole world. And as I suggested somewhere, atleast  they need to be capable to surround human, on whom they hunt.
Also i have hear about changing system of spawning of zeds in SA. Not as pop-up from nowhere. IIRC, then they will can't spawn anywhere, and you can cleaning limited area from them (at least on some time). And some another guy, who it is nearby or close, can this too. Thats mean, you are somewhat interested, that people around you stay not only alive (as food for zeds in one well-known movie), but even as capable shoot of beings.

As for going on long distances. I guess is bad restricting of playing as lone wolf, as phenomenon. People need to have opportunities to play as one survivor, with capability to outwit zeds, possibility to hide own traces etc. But together (with squad or with recently met stranger) this would be somewhat more convenient. Though more specific stamina solution i support.

Also i suggest to make gasoline fuel more seldom find. And diesel fuel more frequently. That would make diesel trucks more useable than gasoline cars, but need more people to repair them(because some parts would be with heavier weight etc).
OT.Ok, exist also diesel cars, but maybe game might avoid them.
And then you have system, which prefer co-op gameplay, but allow also solo gaming.

But i think, that bigger influence would have single-shared world. Yes, something such as in EVE Online, Project Entropia, WWIIOL and some other.

If people stop jumping from the server on the server, and will be all in one world, they will approach more responsibly to the role of a survivor and to the own reputation (at least a little more). And consequently also to the own acts. For now...

 

PS.Also i think, that not to pointing your gun on a stranger (if you think about oneself as friendly person) and lowering rifle or holster pistol, would also a little help.

Edited August 9, 2013 by gregor

[dutch_miller 159]

I have written a lot of ideas on this topic for essentially since I signed up the forums (about a year ago). Here's the conclusion I've come to:

 

KoS boils down to a few basic problems, some of which you also identified:

 

1. Weapons, especially high powered, are easy to acquire

2. There is very little to challenge survival outside of PvP

3. Boredom

4. A lack of reason to work together

 

My solutions are this:

 

Obviously, reduce the amount of weapons, definitely sniper rifles, in the game.

 

Several additions to make survival difficult while on your own.

 -Have a more severe weight restriction - the heavier you are, the slower you are, and the more medical issues you develop. 

          - This will limit your ability to carry vital equipment, offering an incentive to share and trade with others for what you need at the time you meet them.

- More in depth medical system which requires a large variety of equipment, something the DayZ team is already working on.

 

Boredom - this is a tricky one. My solution is one that alot of people won't like, but I think would be a huge help.

There needs to be more big, server-wide goals in DayZ. Goals that require a massive amount of effort and time, as well as dozens of players working together, to complete.

Goals like bringing power plants back online, creating cures/treatments, restoring a hospital to create medical supplies, any number or combination of things would work. They have to be rewarding, offering a very good reason to make a server full of people want to contribute.

 

Finally, the most important one, is making people want to work together. That's how you'll beat the problem, is by making people WANT to work together. Punishing them for not won't work, trying to force them won't work; there has to be a reason the average player won't want to shoot whoever they see, and instead work with them. You have to offer incentives that encourage co-operative play. The medical system will help, and so will increasing the difficulty of surviving. But there needs to be a better trading mechanism, that is simple and easy to use.

 

 

Here's my final point - you have to make a reason to work together to stop people from KoS'ing. You have to make them want to not pull the trigger on whoever they see, instead of punishing them if they do.

'

[carbine781 (DayZ) 131]

Here's my final point - you have to make a reason to work together to stop people from KoS'ing. You have to make them want to not pull the trigger on whoever they see, instead of punishing them if they do.

'

Yeah that's probably the biggest issue the developers need to tackle. DayZ is about survival, not PvP. You have my beans and thanks for the nice post.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Finally, the most important one, is making people want to work together. That's how you'll beat the problem, is by making people WANT to work together. 

 

Quite eloquently put sir.

 

 

 

Also the bit about powerplants and other stuff, fucking brilliant. I hadn't even thought of that.

Edited August 10, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[carbine781 (DayZ) 131]

Quite eloquently put sir.

 

 

 

Also the bit about powerplants and other stuff, fucking brilliant. I hadn't even thought of that.

There's something like this in DayZ Breaking point.