More Realistic Ammunition Mechanic (Bullets and Magazines separate)

[ghostdad 0]

Posted this to the Dev-heaven DayZ page, but I figured it could get more feedback and momentum if copied here. I did see a few other suggestions that are essentially the same, but not as developed and detailed, so I thought it would be worth posting.

Separating cartridge types (45 ACP, 7.62x39, ect) from their respective clips, besides adding more realism to the game, could add interesting changes to survival gameplay. The number of clips a player can find for their specific gun limits their ability to fire for long periods of time.

We can imagine survivor X finding an AK74 with two magazines. Each magazine could have a random number of rounds in it, anywhere from full to empty. Survivor X also finds a box of 7.62x39 ammunition containing 100 rounds. Survivor X could then manually fill up their magazines, to the 30 round capacity. So at this point, our hero could have anywhere from 100-160 rounds of ammunition on their person, but can only effectively use 60 of those rounds in combat. The action of reloading (probably though a right-click context menu in the inventory) takes time, limiting the players ability to reload their magazines in combat with zombies or players.

Possible outcomes (Positive):

1. Players are forced to be more conservative with their shooting. (assuming magazines are less common than bullets, my recommendation)

2. Ammunition crossovers (Ex. PDW's accepting g17 clips) make much more sense.

3. Difficulties associated with rare weapon ammunition are preserved. FN FAL clips can be quite rare, while the ammunition for the weapon (7.62x51 NATO) can be more common since the DMR, m14 and others all use it.

4. More incentive for group play. Common ammunition types facilitate groups pooling and stockpiling them.

5. Adds mechanic for special types of ammunition. Examples: 9mm P+, .50 High Explosive, Tracer Ammunition, Hollow-Point (Less effective vs armored and more effective vs unarmored. Noob Killers), Sub-Sonic (For silenced weapons) and many other real life examples.

6. Allows balancing of special ammunition types to be more precise. For certain types, like the .50 HE, finding a full clip of ten rounds could be too powerful. This would allow single rounds to be found.

7. A new tool for the survivors to hunt down. The ever elusive magazine loader.

8. Subsonic ammunition allows silenced ammunition to be rare without the SD Mag silliness.

9. Many things I may have missed.

Possible outcomes (Negative):

1. Total Chaos. Balancing this new mechanic could prove extremely difficult. Particularly with the multi-weapon ammo types. PDW ammo would probably be very common, since half of the sidearms in the game would also share it. This would probably be offset by the rarity of the magazines, but the STANAG is also problematic, because in real life, the M16, L85A2 and M4 use the same magazine type. While it is the case already that these weapons use the same ammo type (30 round STANAG clips), this new mechanic could add an undesirable 'weight' to these weapons, making them more valuable since most weapons would have unique magazine types.

2. Mo' Complexity, Mo' Problems. Getting this mechanic to work properly could turn out to be nightmare. Without access to all the DayZ code, its impossible for me to estimate the difficulty of implementing this (or whether it is even possible in the Arma 2 engine). My gut says it would be hard.

3. No doubt, many things I haven't thought of. (But I'm sure are running through your brain, if you are reading this, Hi Rocket!:)

Things you will need:

1. A mechanic to add ammunition to magazines. (Right click magazine, context menu opens, select fill magazine)

2. New models for magazines and ammunition. Some can be reused, 1911 and revolver ammo come to mind. (Also, excellent chance to turn the winchester back to the rifle it was always meant to be... Just sayin)

3. A mechanic for reloading weapons that do not use magazines. Mainly shotguns would be affected, but the revolver and CZ550 could also use this. Rounds would need to be loaded into the gun one at a time. Could be sidestepped by using the first mechanic to produce loose shells (the 'magazine') from boxed ammunition. We can imagine the survivor needing to take the shells out of the box before they are readily useable.

4. A mechanic to reveal the number of rounds in a magazine.

Cool stuff you could add:

1. The ever elusive magazine loader. A tool that substantially reduces the time it takes to reload magazines.

2. A mechanic to add a single round to any gun without needing a clip. In real life, any gun can be chambered with a single round without the need of a clip being inserted. Probably very difficult to code for what could be a very minor feature. However, every survivor who ever found a gun without magazines would probably appreciate their single shot AK74, or makarov :P.

3. A mechanic to unload magazines and recover the ammunition inside them. This could become very important if the decision is made to make the ammunition more rare than the magazines.

I would be happy to work on the necessary new models, all I would need is certain raw models to compare size and LOD for consistency. PM me on the forums (ghostdad) if you need/want my help.

TLDR: Make bullets separate from magazines.

[sgtdorian 2]

This is actually a great suggestion that should be implemented, It will add some realism that ArmA2 haven't reached yet.

Anyways, that special mechanich for special ammution types looks hard to be implemented.

[thePCGamer 0]

Great idea!

That will add a lot of realism to DayZ.

[Huntik 0]

This is realy great idea,

I would add one little thing ...

How about now utility item something like a bullet sack?

This item would fit some higher amount of one type of bullets than standard inventory slot?

[revan133 0]

i just searched if somebody else already had this idea ^^

i think this feature would be really nice. it gives a more realistic fealing and adds depth to the mod!

though i would make the mags more rare than the rounds. firefights would become even more intens if you had only 1 or 2 mags and then need to refill for 30 secs or so

[Champloo (DayZ) 5]

I seriously don't see why this wasn't part of the game in the first place. I assumed this was part of the game when I first played but was surprised to realize otherwise. Resident Evil Outbreak had this, and that game is pretty dated. DayZ needs it too

[xximrtwoixx 104]

Agree with OP and everyone else who came up with this. This is much more realistic and also adds extra weight to weapons that use interchangable mag's/ammo; or have common ammo spawns. This is very realistic and something that drove my own decisions when deciding what firearm's to purchase.

[uglyboy 1]

Well this is hardly a DayZ issue, it's an engine issue, to change it you'd have to rewrite the whole weapon-magazine-ammo cfg system and add much more code, or find a clever work around ( and that might be the case at some point in development ). To some degree it's already going that way with the convert mags thingy ( workaround ) so i have faith, but to see a proper complex system you'd have to wait for a standalone release ( arma3 doesn't seem like it's going to have a different ammo management for now ).

[[ltac] imperator 9]

I was at the range other day and while loading some sidearms I said these exact words (or an approximation thereof) to a friend who plays.

Definitely a great idea, and I think the weight towards STANAG or AK mag compatible weapons would be great, they are that way in the real world due for compatibilities sake.

Imagine the look on a players face when they find an ammo can ^_^.. and then they find out theres only 4 rounds of 5.56x32 in it... -_-

[Riffz 0]

I had this idea last night and I agree with most or all of what you said.

[DeathComesSilently 8]

I like the idea of almost all of this. I hope Rocket sees this soon!

[blackaciddevil 0]

Equip the magazine (like a weapon) and press "R" x times. Then maybe use the scroll wheel to choose which magazine you will use when reloading your weapon.

[Nalamin 0]

I am pretty sure that Rocket won't be able to do this...even though it would be great. The Arma engine isn't set up for it because it is built around simulating short term modern combats where the people enter combat with X full mags and can sometimes run to the ammo box to grab more mags. Reloading the mags is beyond the scope of the game.

Maybe they will think of a way around this...we'll see.

Another similar problem in the game as of 1.7.1.5 is all the different kinds of shotgun ammo. Isn't 12 gauge, 12 gauge? I have owned a number of shotguns in my life and all 12 gauge used any 12 gauge ammo...so why all the different kinds of shotgun ammo? These are very basic smooth bore weapons.

[thales2010@live.com.au 6]

This is the best idea I've heard since add the bandit skin as a lootable. Combat would be much more interesting knowing that i had to be sparing with the magazines i had as it would take time to reload the rounds into them (maybe the same time it takes to bandage for 2 mags?). also solves the ammo crisis for the FN FAL as I've got 3 FALs and only 2 mags).

[Sutinen 635]

What a great idea. I think the ammo box should take 3 slots in your inventory and could be placed on the ground.

Then, when near the ammunition box, you can right click your empty mags and fill them with the ammo you want. This way you could have a lot ammo boxes laying around and fill your mags with the ammo you want (SD or normal)

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

Not sure why this thread hasn't got more views and votes, it's a very nice idea.

You have my support.

[Friend-or-Pho 0]

With the latest changes including recombining ammo types, this could actually be possible. For example, after you empty a magazine you will then have an empty mag in your inventory. You could then possibly stumble across a box of rounds, right click on your empty mags, and fill them (in the same way waterbottles work).

This is after-all assuming that this is possible, but it seems likely.

[nobody 31]

YEAH awesome idea man! 100% agree

[Merkur 2]

I also really like that idea, one of the best I have seen.

[MrMorton 0]

+1

I love the idea but it might be hard to do with the current situation.

I would dearly hope to see this in arma3 dayz or standalone dayz

[Switchblade (DayZ) 0]

I love this idea, and I think it would create huge amounts of suspense when your mags run dry during a firefight.

[wolfstriked 143]

I have always wanted this in a game but with added difficulty of having to click on an ammo box and drop a cartridge onto the mag where an audible click sounds.Pain in the ass but gives a subtle feel that IMO would add to the feel of loading mags.

[ghostdad 0]

Thanks for all the support! While it may be impossible to implement in the current state of DayZ (a mod), we can all dream of the day when we are playing the stand-alone game, frantically trying to reload a magazine as the rounds are whizzing above our heads and the zombies are shambling into the house, attracted to the scent of our blood.