Will the SA Ever Feel like This?

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

This is where I disagree. You shouldn't value your gear, progression shouldn't be about your gear.

So in a survival situation we shouldn't value our gear? That's bonkers and I'd argue the complete opposite. Of course our knowledge and abilities is the most important thing and that carries from life to life, our gear doesn't so of course it should and will have value.

Anyhoo, I have to run now, nice chatting with you :)

Edited June 25, 2013 by Fraggle

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

So in a survival situation we shouldn't value our gear? That's bonkers and I'd argue the complete opposite. Of course our knowledge and abilities is the most important thing and that carries from life to life, our gear doesn't so of course it should and will have value.

Anyhoo, I have to run now, nice chatting with you :)

That's not really bonkers. Would you rather I hold you up and take your hiking boots and leave you barefooted or shoot you? I think you would hand over those hiking boots. Would it suck? Yes... but your life is ultimately more valuable than your boots.

The game needs a "skill" system, not something you place points into but just a progression of activities you do that you gradually become more efficient with. Those are saved to your character and lost upon death. This has been hinted at but not really. That is what you should value and would ultimately make you value your character. Gear? Who cares... I know I'll find another hoodie and motorbike helmet. Even in the mod I've run across legit AS50s or other weapons at crash sites and would just bury them in a zombie. Gear means absolutely nothing.

Putting a value on gear only encourages your undesirable KoS, as mentioned above. I might want your backpack and will forcefully take it from you. If I died, what do I have to lose but a few cans of beans and maybe my makarov?

[dallas 5195]

In The Road, weapons and bullets were scarse. The Road's marauders knew ammunition was rare and assumed that the man's revolver was empty and the man was constantly negotiating with himself, whether to use his last to bullets to end himself and the boy.

I remember getting cruched between a wave and the wreck at Rify and watched by corpse with great gear falling to the bottom of the sea, knowing I wouldn't be able to loot my silenced weapons, large backpack and survival gear again. After respawning it took me a long time running north to find a weapon, I found a Enfield with one clip in a barn and thought to myself: Right now this rifle with 10 rounds feels like the greatest treasure, if this had been a real situation, this would have been an invaluable find. However I knew within the premises of the game, I knew exactly where to find an assault rifle and more ammo than I could carry. I knew that while it felt like a lifesaver, I also knew that weapons were so plenty, I'd ditch this rifle like an empty tin can, because weapons in DayZ were so easy to come by.

When weapons and gear are too easy to find, they lose their value and when you can instantly recover all gear after dying, the game stops being a survival experience and becomes a respawn experience. The main reason why KOS is so predominate is because there's no consequence to death. If you die, you'll have less than 5-10 minutes travel to Elektro, Cherno or Balota and if you spawn at Kamenka, you simply run for suicide bridge.

Attacking other players, seeking out conflict is dangerous and often results in death, but because this is a respawn simulator, people sprints around like the infected killing everything they see. DayZ is not a question of PvP or PvE, it's about survival, but when recovering from a death is without consequence, survival simply becomes a question of personal preference, instead of the essence of the game.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

In The Road, weapons and bullets were scarse. The Road's marauders knew ammunition was rare and assumed that the man's revolver was empty and the man was constantly negotiating with himself, whether to use his last to bullets to end himself and the boy.

I remember getting cruched between a wave and the wreck at Rify and watched by corpse with great gear falling to the bottom of the sea, knowing I wouldn't be able to loot my silenced weapons, large backpack and survival gear again. After respawning it took me a long time running north to find a weapon, I found a Enfield with one clip in a barn and thought to myself: Right now this rifle with 10 rounds feels like the greatest treasure, if this had been a real situation, this would have been an invaluable find. However I knew within the premises of the game, I knew exactly where to find an assault rifle and more ammo than I could carry. I knew that while it felt like a lifesaver, I also knew that weapons were so plenty, I'd ditch this rifle like an empty tin can, because weapons in DayZ were so easy to come by.

When weapons and gear are too easy to find, they lose their value and when you can instantly recover all gear after dying, the game stops being a survival experience and becomes a respawn experience. The main reason why KOS is so predominate is because there's no consequence to death. If you die, you'll have less than 5-10 minutes travel to Elektro, Cherno or Balota and if you spawn at Kamenka, you simply run for suicide bridge.

Attacking other players, seeking out conflict is dangerous and often results in death, but because this is a respawn simulator, people sprints around like the infected killing everything they see. DayZ is not a question of PvP or PvE, it's about survival, but when recovering from a death is without consequence, survival simply becomes a question of personal preference, instead of the essence of the game.

There still is no penalty for dying, since you will respawn. Your character needs to be the vessel for which you value, meaning that his progress in everything you do should matter (like the skill system for lack of a better word) ... but gear? Day Z will never have a complete lack of gear, and if it does... I promise you it won't survive very long. No one wants to run house to house, building to building, and find nothing but junk; and I'm sure you're smart enough to realize that.

Also, to touch on the road. They were very much KoS, that is the point I was trying to make. The boy would've been probably raped and murdered or used as a slave if his father didn't produce that revolver; for which the guy obviously didn't think there was any ammo for. It was a ruthless and lawless world.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Dreygar

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

New map, New game mechanics, Crafting, Yes, we will feel like that again.

I can not wait a minute longer.

I remember the video, I watched this and bought Arma 2 the minute after watching it, no regrets since.

[dallas 5195]

I'm not that smart and I do like the whole scavenging and survival aspect of DayZ.

With most buildings now being enterable and with a lot more potential loot spawns, you have to decrease the amount of loot substantially, otherwise even the smallest of towns will yield as much loot as the entire city of Cherno did in the mod. I'm not completely against repetition makes your bandages or repairs more effective, but such leveling mechanics will also be abused(skill grinding). I'd like to see "skills" being a result, not just of repetition, but also a result of days lived. so you can't grind yourself to become an expect brain surgeon over and over, because you get yourself killed over and over.

KOS served a purpose in The Road thought, it wasn't primarily for the lulz like in DayZ. In The Road, the man and the boy had been on the road for years, in an environment that has been scavenged, picked apart and where nature has been devastated and aren't providing much in resources. The Road's marauders are cannibals and while they probably will rape you a bit, they primarily see you as lunch.

[Jamz 253]

Also, to touch on the road. They were very much KoS, that is the point I was trying to make. The boy would've been probably raped and murdered or used as a slave if his father didn't produce that revolver; for which the guy obviously didn't think there was any ammo for. It was a ruthless and lawless world.

I have to say, it was also a fictional world and situation - there is really no reason to think this is how all post apocalyptical scenario's should always pan out. Whilst I agree that when pushed to desperation human beings will put their own survival above everything else, history shows that one way (the most successful way) they do this is by working together. There is no real reason to do this in the mod at present, especially if you simply want to KOS, so no advantage to approaching strangers passively.

I love pvp in DayZ but only with the tension you get from uneasy situations, first contact breaking down or a mistake making someone panic and everything goes to shit for instance. I also like the preparation part of finding items because it's what sets the mod apart from other shooters... There is something to lose even though you respawn, even if you can get it back, it's still being risked which adds to the experience. I don't think the pvp will diminish in the SA with more limited weapons either, maybe it will be more close range which is a good thing I think.

[mactic 92]

Remember your first experience playing the DayZ Mod?

I do..

Running from the coastline in any general direction hoping to see some kind of village that you can loot basic medical/food/water supplies, your only goal at that point was to survive a ZOMBIE apocalypse, this immersion is what made the DayZ Mod so successful, not the PvP, not the guns, the ZOMBIES.

I've recently revisited some old Youtube videos that I used to watch before I actually played the mod, just so I had a genuine idea of what too expect, something to hype it up for me so I could pluck up the courage to spend £20 on Arma II even though I had a shitty build.

This video in particular that I came across through Reddit was the first one I ever watched, and it sold it to me.

I strongly recommend watching it, even if you're a 'veteran DayZ player' or if you started playing just the other day.

This is exactly what DayZ SA should bring and what Rocket and the team should be trying to achieve more than the 'little' add-ons.

Do you think the SA will ever feel like this?

I have to say that it was the exact same video after which I bought the game. I really wish they do it again but I'm afraid that SA will be straight KOS death match from the very start........ :(

BTW: I looved those early zombie sounds. really cool and could get me running away like a little girl sometimes when I was not expecting

Edited June 25, 2013 by MACtic

[strongtent 74]

That's not really bonkers. Would you rather I hold you up and take your hiking boots and leave you barefooted or shoot you? I think you would hand over those hiking boots. Would it suck? Yes... but your life is ultimately more valuable than your boots.

The game needs a "skill" system, not something you place points into but just a progression of activities you do that you gradually become more efficient with. Those are saved to your character and lost upon death. This has been hinted at but not really. That is what you should value and would ultimately make you value your character. Gear? Who cares... I know I'll find another hoodie and motorbike helmet. Even in the mod I've run across legit AS50s or other weapons at crash sites and would just bury them in a zombie. Gear means absolutely nothing.

Putting a value on gear only encourages your undesirable KoS, as mentioned above. I might want your backpack and will forcefully take it from you. If I died, what do I have to lose but a few cans of beans and maybe my makarov?

I think your argument for rare weapons is not well thought out, because you are leaning into the skill system idea you have; which mind you isn't a bad idea.

As for the value of gear, I think I recall Rocket stating that they are testing some gear that will degrade over time, (in some interview) so the value of gear is just as important as the value of the person. It's just up to the devs on how much they will clutter the world... that all comes with testing.

I also think however that once you kill that dude holding the sweet rare rifle that you have found ammo for and saved; will be a good feeling.

My good feeling will be finding them both without killing a person for it, or perhaps meeting someone and trading for it.

Get what I'm saying? Regardless, all these things and more will come up in Alpha and be tested/addressed.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Strongtent

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

That's not really bonkers. Would you rather I hold you up and take your hiking boots and leave you barefooted or shoot you? I think you would hand over those hiking boots. Would it suck? Yes... but your life is ultimately more valuable than your boots.

The game needs a "skill" system, not something you place points into but just a progression of activities you do that you gradually become more efficient with. Those are saved to your character and lost upon death. This has been hinted at but not really. That is what you should value and would ultimately make you value your character. Gear? Who cares... I know I'll find another hoodie and motorbike helmet. Even in the mod I've run across legit AS50s or other weapons at crash sites and would just bury them in a zombie. Gear means absolutely nothing.

Putting a value on gear only encourages your undesirable KoS, as mentioned above. I might want your backpack and will forcefully take it from you. If I died, what do I have to lose but a few cans of beans and maybe my makarov?

You do know how that'll play out right? Grinding and boosting. We've seen it already with the humanity system and you can see it in anything from Halo armor sets to WoW. Unless there's some extreme artificial time barrier to your proposed skill system we'll end up seeing campfire spam across cherno just so some guy can boost his campfire skill. That's just a silly example but grinding and boosting will happen.

I'd rather have to learn how to properly treat my wounds or health issues through trial and error or to learn which tools I need to have to do a certain repair job on a vehicle than have some skill system do it all for me. I hope they try something new that hasn't been done to death by every game before it. Right now, both systems are shallow and finding the magic bloodbag or the Swiss Army Toolbox is all either requires. Progression in both skill sets would require knowledge AND tools. This is more interesting than my level 10 skill solving the problems for me.

[spinager 152]

No, because you already felt what the mod made you feel. You wont be lost, you wont feel alone.

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

CHKilroy's original video may not have been PvP heavy, but PvP still had a *part* in the series. At one point he mentions that Kevbo and his group(the other half when they split) had became a roving gang of "bandits". He even tried to convince Dyslxecki to kill some dudes for their loot. He was the only person with a decent gun(MP5) up until Kilroy got his Lee(I like the CZ, but many people don't). I'd hope the SA will be like this. PvP is there, but not "all encompassing".

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

You do know how that'll play out right? Grinding and boosting. We've seen it already with the humanity system and you can see it in anything from Halo armor sets to WoW. Unless there's some extreme artificial time barrier to your proposed skill system we'll end up seeing campfire spam across cherno just so some guy can boost his campfire skill. That's just a silly example but grinding and boosting will happen.

I'd rather have to learn how to properly treat my wounds or health issues through trial and error or to learn which tools I need to have to do a certain repair job on a vehicle than have some skill system do it all for me. I hope they try something new that hasn't been done to death by every game before it. Right now, both systems are shallow and finding the magic bloodbag or the Swiss Army Toolbox is all either requires. Progression in both skill sets would require knowledge AND tools. This is more interesting than my level 10 skill solving the problems for me.

I am just emphasizing there needs to be some sort of mechanic that gives value to your character, because valuing your gear is not the way to go. While i'd love little minigames to remove bullets or suture up wounds, I just don't think that is within the scope of Day Z. Exploiting a "skill system" is obviously a problem, but I'm sure there are countermeasures that can be put in place to avoid that.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I am just emphasizing there needs to be some sort of mechanic that gives value to your character, because valuing your gear is not the way to go. While i'd love little minigames to remove bullets or suture up wounds, I just don't think that is within the scope of Day Z. Exploiting a "skill system" is obviously a problem, but I'm sure there are countermeasures that can be put in place to avoid that.

the game doesn't necessarily need some type of separate mini-games (like lockpicking in bioshock) to accomplish an in depth medical or repair system. I can imagine a medical treatment system that could be pulled off in the engine by someone with talent and skill. That's not me so I don't want to even stumble through a description. We can use the vehicle repair as an example though. While you can always try to change a tire with nothing but a chinese made socket wrench set you'll surely run into problems and it'll definitely take longer than it would if you had an actual tire iron, not to mention a jack.

A blown head gasket could easily be simulated in the game with all the proper visual and sound ques. Anyone with real world experience would probably know right off what the problem was if it was done right but they would still lack the tools to do the job unless they've focused their looting efforts in that type of loot. A gasket lying around in a shed isn't going to be of much value to someone who doesn't know, or care, of have the desire or time to learn, what it is. They'll know it's loot but hopefully there will be thousands of items the in game and each will have different value to different types of players. So it might appear to be trash loot to them. It might not even be the right one to the person who is looking for it.

I'd like to see a repair system where you have to actually find the tools to populate a small toolbox/kit that you have to find, otherwise the tools would take up space in the regular inventory. You'd have to scavenge for the proper wheels, engine parts, etc. I'd like to see certain repair jobs take specific tools and require a bit of trial and error, real world knowledge, or if a player is lazy, some googling. (better than level 10 nonsense) If the problems/fixes were as accurate as possible, people would leave the game actually knowing something useful that could translate to real life. This approach could be adapted to all sorts of aspects in DayZ and actually influenced a project I was working on for the mod before my computer crapped out. Accidentally learning real world survival skills like first aid isn't a bad thing. :)

Anyway, let's not just say countermeasures can be taken to avoid grinding... since most developers of games fail in that area anyway and most gamers will simply find a way around it so they can boost or grind up quicker. Let's brainstorm and find clever solutions.

[...Viper... 7]

With the pace Dayz SA is going, it's going to take a couple of years, before we have a 100% working game. A major problem that is being overlooked are the zombies. After watching DayZ E3 i still didn't see any major improvment's. They just don't feel "Right". They should focus on fixing core problems of the mod, and then add new features. I know everybody want's new features, weapons... but with a broken core, it's not going to be any different.

[PuRe DAYZ 39]

by the sounds of it rockets trying to make the game more like that with more enterable buildings less chance of finding millitary grade loot ect. so im hoping it does.

[Obscura (DayZ) 33]

KoS and PvP doesn't ruin the game at all, what does ruin it is the scripters/hackers creating an over abundance in top tier weapons/loot and generally spoiling everyones experience.

[dgeesio 1034]

id say no if you already played dayz you got the new in thing at the time.

thats what made this mod people wanted this kinda thing it wasnt a EA Activision left4dead styley zombie game which was refreshin now it feels like its being conosolized for big money and we waiting for ps4 nubs to come in saying woooah man this is the shit boyz ! im on like 50 plazma with my hoommies .

so the coolness was when the game started not now. im a die hard dayz player but with recent changes my intrest is slowly weaning away as they try to turn it into a commercial skyrim craft my own toilet game.

[~Whiskey 18]

This was the first video I ever watched, too.