Fed up

[Chris529 380]

Who knows maybe you'll carry that m16 for days without finding a single mag for it. Maybe you'll pass on AK Cobra than find two AK mags the next day, who knows.

I bet it would make an excellent club for busting skulls then

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

Zombies are unarmed AI, dumb and almost useless as a threat unless in certain scenarios (e.g. many of them in a confined space): sure you can have more zombies, or better zombies (faster/better tracking) or stronger zombies (harder to kill) or more dangerous zombies (one hit minus 5k blood) but, let's face it: a *single* human player with any firearm and willing to kill represents an higher treath than countless zombies.

So it pretty much pointless to think to rebalance just by putting more weight on the PvE side: also CPU plays a role here in terms of limits on quantity/quality of Z.

What you can do instead, and takes almost no effort to do it, it simply to take weight from the PvP side, just by playing with the loot tables: make handgun rare, rifles rarer, automatic weapons even more rare and a sniper rifle a one-of-a-kind spawn in the whole server.

Problem solved. Dayz is a sanbox, but you need sand and water to build a castle, and the tap (loot) can be controlled.

You will think 10 times before killing another guy with an axe when all you have is a lousy makarov and 6 bullets (yeah baby, ammo rare as well, it is an apocalypse after all so you don't find every 10 minutes an M-16 ACOG lying 'forgotten' on some barrack's floor with three magazines aside...)

The bad side is that dayz would lose maybe 80% of its userbase, because only a fraction of us is really focused on the survival side only.

_Anubis_

[gambla 118]

I'd left dayz due to dumbass scrpit kiddies, flood of cal50s, and the missing endgameand now i've given Origins a try, and it's great! More survival, no kiddies yet, endgame, perfect. However, Rocket made it all possible, so credits to him.

[strangere 9]

I hold VERY little hope it will become populated with people other than all the CoD/ARMA/CS/BF kiddies and griefing nobs.

ARMA kiddies lol. Kids and griefing noobs came with dayz. You would know that if you played Dayz before it blew up in casual. Almost no PvP, all serious gamers. Watch Chkilroy

and tell me how much Kids you see... Edited May 9, 2013 by Starngere

[MaxUK 1]

I have to say, if guns and ammo were very scarce in the SA and all I was able to do is roam the wild avoiding Zeds I'd probably get tired of the experience pretty quick. This is a virtual world, not reality and in it people should be able to play however they like, if that includes PVP (which it appears A LOT of people like) then why not.

[de4dcert 246]

Right.

I play DayZ because I like the survival aspect of the game. It was my understanding that this is what Rocket had in mind. Surviving against the odds, fighting off zombies and the environment and other people to get by.

I've no issue with fighting other people. But only as far as the survival aspect of the game forces you into the position of conflict. You don't know who you can trust so there will be occasions where you end up fighting other survivors. That's fine and sensible and a natural part of the game.

However, it seems to me that fighting other people is pretty much the only real reason the vast majority of people play this game. I like it as a part of the experience, not as the primary focus. That's called ARMA...

Obviously, the mod cannot hold up this experience that I'm looking for in the PVE stakes because the zombies are manageable and the environment is otherwise safe as long as you keep some food and water on you... I'm hoping the SA will fix this by filling the environment with dangers, making weapons harder to come by, zombies becoming a bigger threat etc etc etc...

But as much as I think the SA will turn out to be more the game that I am hoping for. I hold VERY little hope it will become populated with people other than all the CoD/ARMA/CS/BF kiddies and griefing nobs.

Fed up and sad and those are my thoughts on the matter, these are the reasons I'm now giving up on the mod and why I quite probably won't play the SA.

Am I wrong? Am I expecting too much? Is this the wrong game? Is it *supposed* to be a PVP sandbox for kids to run around shooting each other because there aren't enough games like that already?

I agree the feeling has changed. I long for the days of people wanting conversation for whatever reason and often the meeting does not result in insta death or feeling the need to shoot people on sight to not take that chance. How the SA will help nurture this original concept is going to be interesting. Other than that join a role playing server.

[SixGunLover 54]

I must say that I agree with Shabadu in is first statement. I also think that this game would be a lot more unique if interaction was a lot more encouraged. However, I will not try to convince anyone because clearly, when 98-100% of the players KOS, the vision of one random dude have no value.

But If I may, I would want to suggest 3 simple items, that in my opinion can maybe reduce this 98% to a fair amount that can satisfy all the other ‘random dude’ out there and give more ‘badass’ option to the bandits.

Trap/projectile/Radio, example:

1. Gas trap: leave you unconscious (infected tend to ignore you, bandits can full loot you)

2. Spike trap: if full heath, bleed + broken leg. If not, broken leg + unconsciousness (infected tend to ignore you, bandits can full loot you)

3. Poisoned dart: leave you unconscious (infected tend to ignore you, bandits can full loot you)

4. Gaz grenade/bomb: if full health, disoriented (shaking like hell) + you have 3-5 sec to move or you will be unconscious (infected tend to ignore you, bandits can full loot you). If not, unconsciousness. (infected tend to ignore you, bandits can full loot you)

5. Radio (already announced): you can give you PRESISE and STRICT directive to another player that can save is life and leave him running naked in the opposite direction.

6. High-tech Radio: you can remotely use the radio of car/bar/market/fire station/military base/etc to diffuse your PRESISE and STRICT directive to another player that can save is life and leave him running naked in the opposite direction.

So bandits will have more ‘end game’ things to do. Their little squad will be able to setting up gas traps (market/hospital/vehicle.. why not?), hacking transmission towers and do what bandits are supposed to do in a post-apocalyptic outbreak; rob people for their own evil survival journey. In my opinion, bullets SHOULD have a lot of chance of destroying items of the player killed, and grenades and satchels, except if you are a cannibal, that leave nothing to loot.

In conclusion, if the bullets fired of the bandits had a chance of destroying what they want to loot, if they can just leave unconscious their prey and have a better way to dictate their rules, I think that bandits could have a ‘safe interaction’ with their victims without killing them each time.. and then, we could have a better game and a better experience.. and In my opinion, more money in the pockets of Dean.

Edited May 9, 2013 by SixGunLover

[SixGunLover 54]

A little up to support the vision of Shabadu, but I'm not so optimist regarding our intervention.

[jubeidok 495]

I get a kick out of the "sandbox" argument. They claim sandbox but their limited imaginations take them all to the same place,

[...Viper... 7]

To the OP:

- State of decay is a single player zombie survival coming june 2013. It's probably what you are looking for.

- The "problem" of this game/mod is that there are no rules. Rocket said it's an ANTI-GAME. And guess what happens when you give everybody a gun and some ammo...

If you want to stop KOS and killing player, lower ammo rates, got to think twice before i waste a bullet for a player with no gear. If they/rocket wanted to decrease KOS.

We just have to wait and see what the SA is going to be like, and then we can judge the game, as of now it's a FREE mod.

Btw is there any news on the release date?

[SixGunLover 54]

I must also agree with JubeiDOK, Dayz right now (imho) feel more like a 'Duck Hunt 2013' (1984 NES game). I also enjoy sniping things with my m16a2 acog, but poison my target, making them unconscious and then proceed to rob all their ammunitions would feel a lot more realistic and trilling. Using a radio to scare someone and making him leave is weapons on the ground would be a lot more fun. It’s certainly more risky that KOS and certainly need skills and intelligence to not repeat to same error, but I think that at the end, KOS will not be the safes option when the bandit will be really skilled, if we suppose that shooting at someone can destroy some of the items or attract a lot of zombies on the dead body who will certainly destroy a lot of thing when eating their meal.

[Ken Bean 175]

To play devils advocat, is the problem really that big? The statistics here look not that bad if you think about.

On the other hand, people do what they usually do in video games. There's a lot of shooting in almost every title out there. People seems to love and enjoy guns in the very first place. Other player interactions are there but they are not neccessary in order to survive. I also don't think that teamplay should be forced game whise.

Its hard to deliver for everyone if you don't define any rules. But you can set stimuli, rewards and handicaps.

In my opinion, a ruthless play stile could be countered by certain gameplay restrictions, losing some features, being handicaped in some way. I know, this is a little a cheap trick, but if you don't want to ban certain playstiles, make them less profitable.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Ken Bean

[SixGunLover 54]

Agreed, I'm also looking for a more realistic survivor game with a nice balance of good and evil, and different level of evil(I make some suggestions earlier). Maybe the SA will be different of the mod and not a sniping simulator where 99% of the survivor are expert military trained marksman equipped with heavy .50 sniping rifle that shoot on sight women, children, father and son or chase the elderly in squad with grenades and assault rifle. But after all, if this is what people want, the game will be a success anyway.

[Imafighter 236]

Dude idk about you, but if food was harder to find, same for drinks and basic supplies, I would be even more tempted to kill other people. Way easier to kill someone for food than actually look for it !

And even in real life, if there's a zombie thing going on, I would kill people just so they won't kill me, anything goes when the laws aren't there anymore.

One thing: Why would they want to kill you, in real life?

[M O N S T E R 599]

One thing: Why would they want to kill you, in real life?

To rob you of valuables such as food and drink, considering it will eventually be hard to come by.

- MONSTER

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

You are right but that's exactly the point: in dayz the environment is so placid and rich you do not need to kill anybody for food.

Just camping close to a single barn with an hatchet and luring the Z inside provides you an endless source of food and beverages because both loot and Z respawn endlessly.

_Anubis_

[Jamz 253]

To rob you of valuables such as food and drink, considering it will eventually be hard to come by.

- MONSTER

I disagree, in real life you can grow your own food once established and how long do you think something like this would last? I'm sure people would stay in groups and move away from populated areas to try and start settlements. The only people trying to kill others without reason would be the criminals of society. The overriding goal of human beings is survival and for the majority that would mean preparing for the future no matter how panicked they were.

The game is much different, it is actually incredibly limited like all games in comparison.

[thelonewarrior 886]

I've always had this idea of getting a server admin to help set up an event where he livemap teleports all players to the same location as fresh spawns and locks the server

It would be on something like dayz+ or 2017 where it's difficult to survive

Now a lot can happen here ( this is to simulate a real zombie apocalypse where at the beginning people would be in groups , maybe 20 players and only 1 life each)

A few things that might happen:

First guy to find a fun mows down some people and they all run but some people get I to smaller groups and survive

Guy finds a gun, becomes the first protector of the group, as more and more get guns it could get tense over supplies and someone might snap

Guy finds a gun, and the group votes on who takes it

One guy with a hachet slowly picks off the group but try's not to get a bandit skin to reveal his true nature

A few of the group might secretly be friends and take out the group at the first opportunity

All could be starving and 2 people are flashing on food but only 1 food item Is left, someone might snap and kill the other guy for it

This would be a good event to host and would give a true feel to the apocalypse scenario

[tajjuk 65]

On the other hand look at it this way: The infection has affected so many people that society as we know it has collapsed, but why would that automatically mean the infected are the biggest risk? In the end they lack any cognitive function above running and chewing on stuff (e.g. us survivors). This makes them dangerous in large numbers and when you get cornered, but easy to avoid in less populated areas. The real threat will always be other people looking for an easy means of survival. There are no more laws, no more authority, Hobbes "social contract" has become void. It is the war of all against all and as he said it will be: "nasty, brutish and short." It may not be the experience you were hoping for, or came to expect from zombie movies and such. But it is how it is playing out in this apocalypse rocket created for us.

Agree with this. I'm 100% against super Zombies because you are firstly being illogical as these are infected human beings, they shouldn't have super human powers. they are effectively people running around with the flu, they shouldn't be able to sprint like Usain bolt. They also shouldn't be smarter, they have one aim, spred the infection and all their senses and cognitive functions are focussed on that. They are therefore stupid but it also gives them unique abilities, for example they have no self worth, no fear or sense of danger they will pursue their objective even if it kills them.

Therefore I'd like to see Zombies that -

- Have their 'buggy' characteristics fixed, random aggro distances, random reactions, attacking through walls, the zig zagging etc.

- Different types of Zombies, some more inftected than others, some bigger some smaller, more representing the cross section of society they came from.

- More persistent Zombies, so not lost in trees etc. They have a blood lust, they will follow it. However, at the same time you should be able to distract or fool them due to their low intelligence much like an animal. So things like smoke, throwing bottles and other tricks might loose them.

- More reactive in groups to loud noises. Like a snowball effect, one starts running and others in the area pick up on this and join in. This could work both ways, it could be very dangerous to you but at the same time you could lure or trick large groups of Zombies out of an area.

What I think you need to avoid is going down the super strong, ever re-spawning Zombie route, AI will never be the real threat, if you make Zombies like this then you just have a game like every other Zombie game where you are constantly having to kill waves and waves of zombies all the time. it will become a grind. Too much zombies and reality you are forcing the game into a singleplayer or co-op style game where you will spend so much time fighting zombies.

The Zombie threat should be there and it should punish carelessness but survivors in a real life zombie situation would learn how to avoid/trick the zombie threat over time.

The other players will always be the main threat and they should be.

People are not playing it how you feel it should be played, so the game has thus been ruined for you. The only way you could be more blatant with how you're dictating the way it should be played is by actually saying "This is how it should be played...."

Don't come here and talk about 'cod kiddies' and not expect people to realise that you want it to change to fit your preferences.

- MONSTER

To an extent this, it's where server options should come in. At one end of the scale you should have the true survivor experience, low loot levels, slower re-spawns, harder zombies, less or no military weapons. At the other end you have easier loot, more weapons, less zombies etc. The more PVP focus.

The standard game should be somewhere in the middle and then allow admins and server runners to tweak the game to suit what people want. Neither of the ends of the scale should be forced on the community, if it becomes a very survival focussed game I think you'll see many people leave and the game will eventually die out.

AI is predictable and limited. It can eventually be taken advantage of almost every time. Not so with other players.

This sums up the appeal of multiplayer. The explosion of gaming is based on the back of multiplayer. The biggest games out there from your CODs to your Warcrafts sell because people get to play against other people which presents multiple challenges and variety that an AI system will never replicate. This creates longevity in a game because you can play the same multiplayer map 20 times but still get surprised by what people do.

Its hard to deliver for everyone if you don't define any rules. But you can set stimuli, rewards and handicaps.

In my opinion, a ruthless play stile could be countered by certain gameplay restrictions, losing some features, being handicaped in some way. I know, this is a little a cheap trick, but if you don't want to ban certain playstiles, make them less profitable.

I like this idea, whilst it takes a tiny bit away from the sandbox element it;s amazing how you can change people's behaviour in game for a few simple little things like a different skin.

I think the whole morality of the bandit/hero element needs looking into and their interaction in this new world community. For example one idea I had was Bandit notoriety, too many killings and word spread about the survivor community, maybe giving away your approximate location.on the map or something. Bandits may then seek alternative ways to avoid this notoriety, or thrive on the fame and the challenge it presents, or it could then open up ways to reduce it. On the flip side good deeds could be rewarded by good notoriety, a well know Hero comes into town and gets food or supplies from survivors. Maybe more items tha require two (or more) people to operate will encourage co-operation. Things like that could subtlety change people's potential approach to how they play the game without steering them like a very very harsh Environment might.

[DazTroyer 227]

I play for the unique pvp side of things, as do most of the guys I know. Yes we have to loot like the rest of us but it's the sport of hunting that gets the blood pumping. We play on Epoch or MoK Taviana and most folk are pretty well equipped so are fair game imo, even a new spawn with beans are useful at times. I do take pity on some poor souls, even patching them up after I've shot them but generally I like being a bandit. Without us and others hunting me, DayZ would be a dull game imho.

Imagine running around Cherno with everyone being nice, Ewwwww. I'd rather be scared of the sniper picking off new spawns than nothing at all, the buzz for me is the hunt or surviving being hunted.

[Jamz 253]

Reading these threads and all these ideas, I'm beginning to think the only way to please most people would be to have a number of different DayZ 'types', selectable individually by the server so servers could run the game type they wanted but anyone could join without downloading extra stuff. Its impossible to tweak DayZ to suit any given majority it seems.

[SixGunLover 54]

I agree Jamz,

Maybe 3 types of server:

1 Full PvP: kill or do not kill, that your choose. You are a murderer? That for you, KOS. / You want an HARDCORE survival simulator, that for you.

2 Pvp Allowed: kill or do not kill, that your choose, but you need a valid reason. The prey don’t want to give you is beans or is truck? Then shoot! You are a bandit? That for you, rob people at gun sight. / You want a REALISTIC survival simulator, that for you.

3 No PvP: do not kill, alive people are more useful to you. You are a survivor? That for you, repel the zombie apocalypse. / You want a COOP survival simulator, that for you.

Maybe 3 types of characters:

1 Civilian (men/women/child/elderly): You are the friendly type, if not wielding military weapon, bandits should not KOS but rob you instead. Any intelligent person can see that you are not a treat and it a better option to exploit you or help you.

2 Scavenger (outlaw: men/women/child/elderly/military/police/firefighter/ambulance): You are the evil type, everyone see you as a treat, you are a treat. Any intelligent person should avoid you, bend to your will or KOS you.

3 Non-Civilian (military/police/firefighter/ambulance): You have great responsibility, people believe in you, they need you and you feel that this is your task to defend the civilian and protect them from the outlaw.

I may not have the solution, but I feel that something is wrong in Dayz right now. There are mad adults everywhere that stole the lollipop of every single kid out there and kick their head on a wall just for fun. Seriously, what wrong with you? You will shot on sight a mother of two in front of his family just because they are hiding in a little barn and are trying to fix their van? I means you really thing that this is how YOU will react in a post-apocalyptic outbreak and that It will be representative of the general population? Shame on you.

*The last part is just my general feeling, there are no real questions, don't bother to answer this part.

Edited May 10, 2013 by SixGunLover

[jubeidok 495]

I've always had this idea of getting a server admin to help set up an event where he livemap teleports all players to the same location as fresh spawns and locks the server

It would be on something like dayz+ or 2017 where it's difficult to survive

Now a lot can happen here ( this is to simulate a real zombie apocalypse where at the beginning people would be in groups , maybe 20 players and only 1 life each)

A few things that might happen:

First guy to find a fun mows down some people and they all run but some people get I to smaller groups and survive

Guy finds a gun, becomes the first protector of the group, as more and more get guns it could get tense over supplies and someone might snap

Guy finds a gun, and the group votes on who takes it

One guy with a hachet slowly picks off the group but try's not to get a bandit skin to reveal his true nature

A few of the group might secretly be friends and take out the group at the first opportunity

All could be starving and 2 people are flashing on food but only 1 food item Is left, someone might snap and kill the other guy for it

This would be a good event to host and would give a true feel to the apocalypse scenario

Ya, I tried to generate interest in this kind of idea a while back but it didn't take. Basically playing it as a "Last Man Standing", then the server can reset and do it all again. Once you die you basically go find another server. I also think that players should start up in the NW corner and have to make their way down to the coast. Just once I'd like to play on a server and encounter a 10 player community moving about. It's hard to get people to understand their power in numbers, the largest group I've ever gotten together was 2 strong.

Edited May 10, 2013 by JubeiDOK

[Guest]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

-snip-

I don't like the ideas you've presented at all.

People LOVE the freedom and people LOVE the idea behind other players being the "bad guys", but people are annoyed that most players are doing the same thing. Sniping and killing for giggles.

It is a fixable problem without adding different server types (or gamemodes basically).