[For SA] Player diversity and customization through skills

[WiFiN 55]

DISCLAIMER 1 - Don't go full retard! Read the whole post before posting!

"Are you baking more social dynamics and mechanics into the game, or are you happy to leave those interactions up to the players?

[...]

We’re looking at ideas, and we haven’t actually implemented these yet, but we’re looking at how we could have it so that some skills, maybe, are socially learned or enhanced. Maybe very advanced skills, like being a doctor, the ability to do very specific things like suturing, might be earned those ways.

Interlude:

So we know that Rocket realizes that progression through equipment has it's faults and lack of ceratin aspects requires implementation of skills of some sorts. Thus it's only a matter of time we'll see such system ingame. Though, as idea is still pretty raw, we are free to propose how we'd like to see such system. This topic had been brought up many times before with emphasis on different aspects from skill trees to classes. I'd like to make a breakdown of this mechanic and go all the way from problem to solution.

Addendum 1 - Why in my opinion solely action-based method (do X action Y times to raise certain skill) is not a good solution:

Let's say your dream about action-based skill growth system comes true.

You want to be a skilled technician engineer? Okay, you need to collect 500 tires and shoot->replace->shoot->replace them on a car to get your skill up.

Oh wait! But your medic skill is draining the points you need all the time because you're bandaging yourself frequently!

That is the reality of action-based skill system with no UI. Is it subtle? No, because you spend time farming skills instead of scavenging, exploring or fighting. Is it entertaining? No.

Existing issues

We have to look into problems we have before adding something new. Thus, here is the set of issues such system should fix:

1. Everyone is the same - in bad meaning. Everyone have the same chances for survival from the start, yeah. But in the long run, each player you encounter is just a meatball with some gear strapped on. And every time you play you can only vary your gear in a very small set of options: sniper\hunting rifles or automatic weaponry. Everything else just taken in regards of quality: backpacks, outfit, compas->map->gps, etc..
   
2. Endgame is dead end (boredom) - while sometimes progression through equipment is good, it has it's own problems. For example low life value: who cares if you die, if you can go from hobo to SpecOps in mere seconds (especially if you have a team and a car)? Second point: if you have your gear - you have nothing really good to do. You get bored and this stems into the next issue.
   
3. Wretched player interactions - two previous issues form the last one. As everyone is the same, bored and have nothing to offer to one another, (except for their own gear) people sink into killing eachother. Some of them will stay that way no matter what, but many others would do something else if they could. Also - anything you can do, you can do on your own, so why bother working with anyone else?
   

Things we should keep in mind

It is not a simple task adding skills into such unique game as DayZ. It shouldn't break the feel of the game, so the system should suit the following requirements:

1. It should not constrain you into the way you want to play - this has to be the main feature. In many MMORPGs for every class there is only one skillset that works, so players have to browse the forums and wikias, looking for the correct build, which is wrong. Instead, players should explore their own ways to play the game, .
   
2. It should be simple and intuitive to use - the system should run in the background mostly so you can tweak it only when you feel like it. Any changes you do should let you shape your character so it suits your playstyle like a glove.
   
3. Adjusting skills should make characters fit the roles the players choose instead of making them outright stronger - I assume that there is a decent amount of players here that wouldn't like to bother with skills at all. Thus, skill system has to let those players do all the basic actions without being totally outclassed by those who actually specialize into something.
   

1. (added)Players should become more distinctive - We need more player to player interacions. Today the only thing you can't do on your own is a blood transfusion. If the skill system will be implemented correctly, players with different skill sets will actually be more interseted to socialize (trade, help. ... slavery)
   

The system itself

-Interface-

DISCLAIMER 2 - interface and tweaking are proposed for convenience. Neither I, nor you like the idea of punching trees to get more strengh. This is the easiest way to keep the system both subtle and convenient. Don't like the menu's? Don't look at them and just perform actions. More info in the -Progression- paragraph.

The whole system should fit in one window.

Design-wise it can look like a page in a diary with scribbles on the sides that depend on the skills you have.

It consists of two pie charts:

Physical stats and Skills.

Physical stats affect the way you play while scavenging\fighting. Want to be a one-man-army with an LMG, and all ammo\supplies needed? You can have it. Want to be a scout or a sneaky scavenger? You can tweak your character that way too. Haven't made up your mind or just not into edititng stats? Leave them as they are - you're not loosing anything.

Physical stats pie chart has 3 dynamic sectors which are quite trivial:

• Endurance - defines your stamina while running long distances, how much you can carry without getting exhausted, and can define ability to withstand pain
  
• Dexterity - defines your dash distance, ability to land without taking damage or breaking legs, can increase crouch speed or just lower the noise you create.
  
• Strengh - defines your melee combat abilities, ability to run uphill, and may define flinging from recoil
  

Skills affect all other actions which you may perform. Which? Depends on the mechanics SA will give us. Let's name which are quite obvious:

• Medical - abilities for diagnosis and performing medical operations from bandaging to surgery.
  
• Crafting and repairs - creating mostly mechanical items and fixing them, maintaining firearms and gadgets (if those are not destroyed completely).
  
• Mechanics and engineering - repairing and upgrading vehicles, setting barricades and building (in future).
  
• Survival and leatherwork - setting traps, making campfires, skinning and butching corpses, making bags and clothes.
  
• Cooking and brewing - cooking food (and remedies made of herbs) and making certain beverages (which can be used to deal with shock and pain, can clean wounds, and help recover).
  

-Progression and influence on gameplay-

DISCLAIMER 3 - any numbers and rates are subject for tweaking during the testing phase. Focus on the mechanic, not the numbers.

Progression

As I said, progression should mostly run in the background. Let's say each pie chart can hold only 100 points. So, you start with 10 points in each physical stat and 3 points in every skill. They grow slowly over time, so after approximately 5 days (several hours each) of playing (if you didn't tweak anything) you'll have both pie charts full with 33 points in every stat and 20 points in every skill.

If you perform certain actions the respective skill will grow a bit faster, but nothing more. Thus, you neither can, nor have to farm your skills like in certain skill-dependant games we know (Elder Scrolls).

It would be nice if you could boost your learning by using books if you spend your time at the campfire for example - that would work if crafting or cooking would actually take time.

Influence on gameplay

I'm not a fan of unlockable abilities so I see it this way:

Let's observe influence of the medic skill on the gameplay with it's progression. (Once again. points here are not actual "levels" - you just start noticing the difference when your skills grow)

At skill level 3 you are able to bandage yourself, but if the wound was serious you might start bleeding again or get an infection. You have no idea what most symptoms mean, what different medications do (painkillers and morphine are an exclusion) and performing any complex task (blood transfusion or bone setting) is a way for a disaster.

At skill level 20 any complex actions are still very risky to perform. Though, you already know what certain drugs do and can recognize some diseases, but the chances of a mistake are high. So, unless something critical happens, you can deal with it.

At skill level 50 you can perform all spectrum of actions, with considerable risk, though you are most likely to fix any mistakes you do. You can make a mistake, but you can trust your own diagnoses as they are most likely true. At this point you can call yourself a specialist.

At skill level 70 you can do anything, being almost 100% sure it will work flawlessly. You can diagnoze anything precisely, knowing exactly what to use. Your actions spend less resources (cautery, bandages, etc) and let your patient recover faster (so bandaging returns some health, blood transfusions happen faster and yeld more blood, bones heal faster, etc..).

As you can see, even having the basic skills lets you perform all standart actions. This way you can let the skills grow by themself and just notice how things are getting better.

So, the whole system should let you either:

1. Master one skill (around 70) and everything else is just at basics, so you get everything else from others.

2. Proficient at two skills (around 45-50) for example medic+brewer benefiting from both, everything else being basic.

3. Jack of all trades in any combination you like.

Addendum 2 - how player to player interactions should look like with this system onboard:

Right now you can do EVERYTHING on your own. Blood transfusion? Easy! Engine change? I got it, boss! Changing main rotor on the helicopter you can't even fly properly? Piece of cake! Skills will actually help solo-to-solo interactions as instead of shooting eachother players will start from figuring out what other player can. How do they handle it from that point is up to them.

People will focus on skills they prefer to use. It doesn't mean they are absolutely self-sufficient with the ones they chose.

Let's say you are dedicated medic - you are mastering medical skills and are quite profecient at cooking\brewing.

And then you meet another player. As it turns out he's low on blood and has a broken leg in a splint. He also tells you that he's a skilled handcrafter\survivalist. He couldn't fix himself properly so in return for your help he crafts you a cape out of the wolf hide you gave him and fixes broken NV goggles you were already going to throw away.'

See? Meeting a player with another set of skills lets you do the things you wouldn't be able to do on your own. Even if you meet someone and it turns out your skills are the same, you are less likely to shoot from that point unless you are a total asshole.

-Control and tweaking-

So you know what you need, eh?

Setting up should be easy as well:

You define the values you want for your stats and skills to be and let them grow to those levels. Death in this game is permanent, so distributing points every time you die would cause tons of frustration, so this way you can set those values once and forget about editing.

Changed your mind?

Easy as that - you just change the max values of the skills your need to the boundries you want and they start to transform slowly, rules described in the "progression" part are applied. (this represents the process of aquiring new skills and partially forgetting old ones as you don't use them any more)

Benefits from the system

1. Each player is unique - you can play as you want while skills\stats will complement your mobility and actions preferences. Making you anything from packmule to stealthy assasin.
   
2. Playes have a lot to offer to echother - From now on when you see someone in the distance your first question will be "what can this guy do for me?" and not "what can I loot off of him?". There will be nothing dumber than shooting a skilled crafter or survivalist.
   
3. System doesn't overburden the players - As you clearly see, the whole system can run completely in the background while you play.
   

In conclusion:

I hope we'll see such system in game. I'm looking forward to your comments and suggestions.

If you like this concept - please, relay it to the devs by the means you have, be it twitter, reddit, or PM's.

P.S. Please don't push on "but teh zombahs will be fixed and will fix everything" argument. Yes they will be fixed. But if the only thing a player can't do on his own is a blood transfusion - we're not even a step away from fixing the deathmatch issue.

Edited June 6, 2013 by WiFiN

[applejaxc 2500]

I like your layout.

Rocket has already said no to this idea.

[TerribleFate 49]

Rocket has already said no to this idea.

Yeah, sorry bud.

[WiFiN 55]

I like your layout.

Rocket has already said no to this idea.

Well I actually saw myself that he said we need some sort of skills to patch the progression.

Can you tell me where\when did he say he changed his mind?

[roykingtree 125]

Skills affect all other actions which you may perform. Which? Depends on the mechanics SA will give us. Let's name which are quite obvious:

• Medical - abilities for diagnosis and performing medical operations from bandaging to surgery.
  
• Crafting and repairs - creating mostly mechanical items and fixing them, maintaining firearms and gadgets (if those are not destroyed completely).
  
• Mechanics and engineering - repairing and upgrading vehicles, setting barricades and building (in future).
  
• Survival and leatherwork - setting traps, making campfires, skinning and butching corpses, making bags and clothes.
  
• Cooking and brewing - cooking food (and remedies made of herbs) and making certain beverages (which can be used to deal with shock and pain, can clean wounds, and help recover).
  

First off, thanks for creating a readable organized suggestion. I do like how your system tries to help the boredom issue of endgame, but I have a question about the skills. In real life I really enjoy fixing things, building/crafting things, so how would this system work for someone [like me] who would like to have more than one skill (ie... survival/leatherwork, mechanics/engineering, crafting/repairs)?

[Zarniwoop 1193]

Rocket is thinking about something "like" this. But no HUD and gamey stuff like that. You wont get any *ding* "You have leveled up! You can now do X/Y!" It will be more subtle. Like after fixing many many different car parts you might be able to do it better/faster or fine tune car parts. This is later in development though. Also this is second hand info so it may not be exactly like what I say or what the guy says.

I hate to promote streamers and the like but this guy got some time alone with Rocket and got a load of Questions in.

http://el.twitch.tv/...iel/b/393773349 and skip to 2:07:30 an watch from that point. Or 2:09:25 for the exact Question. Question ends at 2:14:00 There's tons of goodies in there although its second hand and not very reliable as to its accurateness.

This is on the skill "advancement" rocket is thinking about for SA. No gamey stuff etc.

Sorry OP didnt have time to read whole post... :blush:

[applejaxc 2500]

Well I actually saw myself that he said we need some sort of skills to patch the progression.

Can you tell me where\when did he say he changed his mind?

I know he's mentioned some passive thing, but never a full skill system. Can you source yourself?

[leviski 2152]

You took what Rocket wants and then added in some stuff that will never even get considered

-If a skill system was ever introduced it would be completely invisible you would never be able to adjust anything.-

[leviski 2152]

For instance lots of gunshooting would passively make you hold that gun steadier

More fixing of people/self would make you a better doctor

same would go for cars

Running alot would give you more endurance but it would never be a points system it would be a invisible skill that would go up and possibly down.

[leviski 2152]

And this whole thing is easily possible with ARMA's skill slider system

[taco241 393]

Good, constructive post from OP.

Well done. Definitely worth considering. I can forsee this enriching the game experience and encouraging interaction.

SOME sort of skill, or character development, whether a passive, menu-free thing or some other variation of your plan needs to be in SA.

[WiFiN 55]

First off, thanks for creating a readable organized suggestion. I do like how your system tries to help the boredom issue of endgame, but I have a question about the skills. In real life I really enjoy fixing things, building/crafting things, so how would this system work for someone [like me] who would like to have more than one skill (ie... survival/leatherwork, mechanics/engineering, crafting/repairs)?

Glad you've asked! I was thinking about it myself. As you see, the rates and values are subject to tweaking. So my idea was that you either:

1. Master one skill (around 70) and everything else is just at basics, so you can support yourself and get everything else from others.

2. Proficient at two skills (around 45-50) for example medic+brewer, benefiting from both, everything else being basic.

3. Jack of all trades in any combination you like.

So yeah, the actual idea was to make players pretty effective combining two focused skills (or mastering one) and manage some basic actions with the rest.

[WiFiN 55]

Sorry OP didnt have time to read whole post... :blush:

That's why you shouldn't have posted in the first place. What I am proposing is exactly AGAINST "ding, you have a level! ability unlocked". Please actually READ the whole post, it actually helps considering all the time I spent making it look readable.

You took what Rocket wants and then added in some stuff that will never even get considered

Read the whole post, or go away.

EDIT: Added BIG RED DISCLAIMERS in case someone else decides to point out things already covered by the OP.

Edited May 6, 2013 by WiFiN

[colekern 1364]

At the very least, this is a wonderfully formatted and well thought-out post. While I do think that this may not be a good fit for DayZ, I do think a skill system of some sort of "skill system" might be beneficial if done right. It would need to be completely in the background though, and only change dependant on your actions.

Edited May 6, 2013 by colekern

[WiFiN 55]

At the very least, this is a wonderfully formatted and well thought-out post. While I do think that this may not be a good fit for DayZ, I do think a skill system of some sort of "skill system" might be beneficial if done right. It would need to be completely in the background though, and only change dependant on your actions.

Thanks alot. Glad to hear that work was not in vain!

But you see?

That's the main problem! The system has to be both subtle AND convenient. And yet I see no way to achieve it without some sort of UI. The one I propose is as simple and subtle as possible - you set it up and forget about it.

If you throw it away completely and rely only on actions you perform, you will sink in micromanaging your actions - I doubt you want to shoot and change 500 tires to become a skilled techinician. And actually keep changing them from time to time to maintain the skill...

If there IS a way to have a working skill sytem that has no UI at all and doesn't involve action spamming\farming, I will be glad to hear it.

I know he's mentioned some passive thing, but never a full skill system. Can you source yourself?

Sadly, no. I can't recall wether it was an interview or a post, but he actually said "we need a skill system of sorts". If you read the OP completely, you'll see that this system is as subtle as possible.

Edited May 6, 2013 by WiFiN

[colekern 1364]

Thanks alot. Glad to hear that work was not in vain!

But you see?

That's the main problem! The system has to be both subtle AND convenient. And yet I see no way to achieve it without some sort of UI. The one I propose is as simple and subtle as possible - you set it up and forget about it.

If you throw it away completely and rely only on actions you perform, you will sink in micromanaging your actions - I doubt you want to shoot and change 500 tires to become a skilled techinician. And actually keep changing them from time to time to maintain the skill...

If there IS a way to have a working skill sytem that has no UI at all and doesn't involve action spamming\farming, I will be glad to hear it.

Sadly, no. I can't recall wether it was an interview or a post, but he actually said "we need a skill system of sorts". If you read the OP completely, you'll see that this system is as subtle as possible.

I've never thought about it. I've never really cared for a system like this.From what I've heard, Rocket doesn't want a UI for the system, so I'm interested to see what his ideas are.

[Dayz Steve 26]

I think this skill system is what would expand the game a lot!

[dekartz 315]

No.

Oh, you want an explanation? Well first, your usage of the word convenience immediately killed the idea from a "What DayZ is" perspective. Convenience and being able to track your skills in any viable fashion is essentially what Rocket wanted to avoid. Sure, there will probably eventually be guides on the inter-tubes on "How to get max car fixing" or whatever. But putting as much difficulty into compiling that guide is likely what they're going for.A

Also this obsession with "WE HAVE TO FIX DEATHMATCHING" assumes that people will give half-a-crap about any of these functions. Sure, I could let some stranger fix my car... OR I could have my clanmate who "specced" into repairing do it. And because it can be set and re-set, Clans immediately know to divy up their membership amongst the various skills.

So in the end the only person the game changes for is the lowly solo-player. Now, he has a greater disadvantage because of a system that ultimately wouldn't change things. He's still wary of people because while the skills he has are good for himself, the other person (if they're a loner) likely has similar skills and if they're not? Then they have no need of him. Meaning the only thing he knows for sure that they can offer him is loot.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

I say no to this as well, because I think that the better solution is a task requiring some rudimentary real-world knowledge of how to do it before you are able. This would be represented by a small 'minigame' type sequence, but with nothing silly like quick time events or time limits (for most actions). I imagine it being kind of like The Walking Dead game (the good one), where you can point and click to select items and apply the item to different areas, or you would have to manually do ther things. Say you wanted to heal a gunshot wound. you get a knife and hold it as steady as you can to try and pry the bullet out. But don't remember to give him morhpine first, sterilize the knife, disinfect the wound and bandage it afterwards. The steadier you are with the mouse and the better your knowledge is, the better you are at doing such a task.

I think I'd like a system like that.

[WiFiN 55]

Well first, your usage of the word convenience immediately killed the idea from a "What DayZ is" perspective.

Seems like you fail to understand the meaning of the word "convenient".

Time for a grammar lesson.

Let's look at DayZ. Survival in DayZ must be difficult - difficult is good, because players like challenges. Being able to specialize only in a couple of skills instead of being a genious in every way makes the game more difficult, which is good.

Inventory in Dayzmod is simple (not difficult) yet inconvenient - which is bad (because no one likes to mess with those bars). That's why dev team decided to rework it for the SA and make it convenient, which is therefore good.

Get it now?

Having a UI for the skills doesn't make the game easier. Instead it makes it convenient to control.

Sure, there will probably eventually be guides on the inter-tubes on "How to get max car fixing" or whatever. But putting as much difficulty into compiling that guide is likely what they're going for.

Didn't get it again. As I said in the OP, we should let players concentrate on the game itself instead of browsing the forums for the "imba" build that lets you beat anyone.

As I said - if you are against controlling your skills, you can let them grow on their own. What I find bad is micromanaging your actions (do x amount of actions and raise your skill) instead of playing the game the way you like.

Also this obsession with "WE HAVE TO FIX DEATHMATCHING" assumes that people will give half-a-crap about any of these functions.

....Now, he has a greater disadvantage because of a system that ultimately wouldn't change things (huh, why?). He's still wary of people because while the skills he has are good for himself, the other person (if they're a loner) likely has similar skills and if they're not? Then they have no need of him. Meaning the only thing he knows for sure that they can offer him is loot.

Well, DUUH! No one gives a flippingshit about anyone else because right now you can do EVERYTHING on your own. Blood transfusion? Easy! Engine change? I got it, boss! Changing main rotor on the helicopter you can't even fly properly? Piece of cake! It will actually help solo-to-solo interactions as instead of shooting eachother they'll start from figuring out what other player can. How do they handle it from that point is up to them.

On a side note: find a girlfriend or something, you seem stressed.

I say no to this as well, because I think that the better solution is a task requiring some rudimentary real-world knowledge of how to do it before you are able. This would be represented by a small 'minigame' type sequence, but with nothing silly like quick time events or time limits (for most actions). I imagine it being kind of like The Walking Dead game (the good one), where you can point and click to select items and apply the item to different areas, or you would have to manually do ther things. Say you wanted to heal a gunshot wound. you get a knife and hold it as steady as you can to try and pry the bullet out. But don't remember to give him morhpine first, sterilize the knife, disinfect the wound and bandage it afterwards. The steadier you are with the mouse and the better your knowledge is, the better you are at doing such a task.

There are two problems. Minigames are fun but they will require a lot of content to be made by devs. Also, they become boring progressively. Tell me, was it fun hacking (for the 456th time) in Mass Effect after 7 hours of playing? No it wasn't. They have to be either dynamic or various to be interesting - developing these won't be easy.

Second and the ultimate problem: involving real world knowledge means, that after some time spent playing, everyone will be able to to perform any action on their own. Thus destroying the purpose of specialization and skills themselves.

Edited May 7, 2013 by WiFiN

[dekartz 315]

Well, DUUH! No one gives a flippingshit about anyone else because right now you can do EVERYTHING on your own. Blood transfusion? Easy! Engine change? I got it, boss! Changing main rotor on the helicopter you can't even fly properly? Piece of cake! It will actually help solo-to-solo interactions as instead of shooting eachother they'll start from figuring out what other player can. How do they handle it from that point is up to them.

On a side note: find a girlfriend or something, you seem stressed.

You seemed to miss my point there. Adding the skills won't make people suddenly give a flipping shit about one another. Or what they can do. They'll focus on the skills they need/are interested and likely won't care fuckall about the others. Hence, there's no reason to start figuring out what the other player can do. They'll still just shoot them.

Furthermore, personal attacks are petty and do nothing to help your point.

Didn't get it again. As I said in the OP, we should let players concentrate on the game itself instead of browsing the forums for the "imba" build that lets you beat anyone.

As I said - if you are against controlling your skills, you can let them grow on their own. What I find bad is micromanaging your actions (do x amount of actions and raise your skill) instead of playing the game the way you like.

As I said, progression should mostly run in the background. Let's say each pie chart holds 100 points. So, you start with 10 points in each physical stat and 3 points in every skill. They grow slowly over time, so after approximately 5 days (several hours each) of playing (if you didn't tweak anything) you'll have both pie charts full with 33 points in every stat and 20 points in every skill.

If you perform certain actions the respective skill will grow a bit faster, but nothing more. Thus, you neither can, nor have to farm your skills like in certain skill-dependant games we know (Elder Scrolls).

It would be nice if you could boost your learning by using books if you spend your time at the campfire for example - that would work if crafting or cooking would actually take time.

See the underlined portion above. You're directly contradicting what you've said there. IF certain actions make a respective skill grow faster, then that means there can and will be people exploiting doing that particular action to make their skill grow faster. Not to mention that time-based grinding of skills just slips into that EVE online skill-space. (Though instead of total-time it will just be time played)

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Jesus, when people get in to arguments over things like this which have already been said to not be implemented.

This is obviously subjected to change, but I doubt that 'leveling up' with a UI makes any sense at all.

As stated before, any improvements should be subtle. For example; using a scoped weapon consistently that at first you might have not been able to hold steady, you've improved on your skills. That COULD work, were it implemented correctly.

As for the OP, I'm going to have to say no.

[WiFiN 55]

Adding the skills won't make people suddenly give a flipping shit about one another. Or what they can do. They'll focus on the skills they need/are interested and likely won't care fuckall about the others.

Actually it will. People will focus on skills they prefer to use. It doesn't mean they are absolutely self-sufficient with the ones they chose.

Let's say you are dedicated medic - you are mastering medical skills and are quite profecient at cooking\brewing.

And then you meet another player. As it turns out he's low on blood and has a broken leg in a splint. He also tells you that he's a skilled handcrafter\survivalist. He couldn't fix himself properly so in return for your help he crafts you a cape out of the wolf hide you gave him and fixes broken NV goggles you were already going to throw away.'

See? Meeting a player with another set of skills lets you do the things you wouldn't be able to do on your own. Even if you meet someone and it turns out your skills are the same, you are less likely to shoot from that point unless you are a total asshole.

See the underlined portion above. You're directly contradicting what you've said there. IF certain actions make a respective skill grow faster, then that means there can and will be people exploiting doing that particular action to make their skill grow faster. Not to mention that time-based grinding of skills just slips into that EVE online skill-space. (Though instead of total-time it will just be time played)

It doesn't let people exploit the system, it gives them sort of control over system while they are not using the UI. Also, performing actions should boost the learning rates a bit as it seems logical.

The reason for the UI is to let players have the skills they want without spamming some action to get the skill up.

Let's say your wet dream about action-based skill growth system comes true.

You want to be a skilled technician engineer? Okay, you need to collect 500 tyres and shoot->replace->shoot->replace them on a car to get your skill up.

Oh wait! But your medic skill is draining the points you need all the time because you're bandaging yourself frequently!

That is the reality of action-based skill system with no UI. Is it subtle? No, because you spend time farming skills instead of scavenging, exploring or fighting. Is it entertaining? No.

And what is bad about EVE system since you mentioned it? Boosing skills is crucial for other MMOs (like WOW), but in DayZ YOU should define the skills you want to use, not the other way around.

Edited May 8, 2013 by WiFiN

[WiFiN 55]

Updated the OP (look for "addendum" and "added" red signs)

Edited June 5, 2013 by WiFiN