How to make death actually matter more

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

doesn't make sense that everybody but you can loot your dead body.

And again, teams could bypass that restriction by just playing pass-the-parcel with your gear.

This perma-death thing is a tough nut to crack in a multiplayer game.

Roguelikes used to be "when you're dead, you're dead". Now we've got other people making an arse of it.

[Very Ape 748]

Does it really matter if teams can bypass the restriction? In real life, a group could loot their dead friends' corpse, and give that gear to a new posse member. While I understand that in DayZ they'll have conveniently found a ''new'' posse member within the time it takes for them to meet up again, the fact still remains that the group would have the advantage of conserving their dead mates' gear in real life.

Oftentimes, teams are in a dangerous situation when another team member dies. What often happens is they guard the corpse for the deceased to loot, as opposed to carrying all of their gear, which is often impossible. In most situations it'd be an additional hassle for teammates to let their guard down in order to split up their fallen comrades' gear, as opposed to just guarding it.

Hopefully, damage to gear will remedy most of these situations.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Very Ape

[Hetstaine 10852]

how 'bout this? the longer you live the longer the cooldown is when you die

it means players who died soon after a spawn won't have to wait too long (a minute or two), but if you lived long enough to get all those gear

How about the longer you live the shorter the cooldown. May inspire some to go for a long life. Short life/small cooldown just keeps the city deathmatch alive.

I was not originally a fan of the lockout timer deal that has been brought up multiple times ( glitch or hacker death)..but i mean if you are dead there is no real rush to get back to that particular server anyway i suppose ,so it may work. Not being able to loot your own body should have been implemented a long time back.

Like Chab posted above, there is always a way around a supposed 'fix' though.

[Very Ape 748]

There's always a way around a fix, but it's a damn hassle and could lead to their untimely deaths. :P

[Hetstaine 10852]

Would a lockout timer apply to Admins ?

[shadowleaper 22]

I think the main reason you bring it up could revolve around the fact that good loot is only spawned at main city centres, hopefully with the new S.A system the other coastal towns and areas will have enough places and loot of interest. This should help solve the issues we currently have.

[Slartybartfast 76]

Suggested it a few times before, but by putting spawnpoints all over the map (not only the coast) and not getting a pop-up letting you know where you spawned will make it a bit more difficult to get your bearings and thus finding your way back to your dead body

Another option is when you die a second time your previous body will degrade/decompose (f.e. with a 5min countdown so you can't abuse this by just killing yourself so no one else can loot your first body).

This way people will be forced to start from where ever they spawn in

[GodOfGrain 191]

Motivation to stay alive should come from within the game, not by an external measurement.

Anyhow, people will just buy two copies of the game, which is great for Bohemia, but not for us.

Regarding the idea to prevent player looting their own body:

Kind of an arbitrary measurement, and not very effective either.

Teammates will just pick up your stuff and hand it over to you.

We have discussed this topic - low value of death & life, problems of "progression through equipment" in this thread:

On game design, "progression through equipment" and a system of micro-skills

Edited March 20, 2013 by GodOfGrain

[liquidmind 320]

1. Make people wait a minimum 30min-1hour time limit before they can enter the server their character died in.

2. Make it so everybody can loot their body except for them

I think those rules are a bit harsh. I don't think a relog-timer or locking corpses is a good thing.

especially as having the ability to make camps and store stuff in vehicles, overcomes death and making one exception for the gear you currently wear over every other thing you own, doesn't make sense.

Having a severe chance for infection on every item, once you died, would fuck things up alot tough. I died alone on the North-end of NWAF, and even tough I ran there directly from shore, my body was gone before I arrived there. So I don't think being able to reach the body is a problem at the moment. It's rather a problem when the players stay along the coastline to kill newspawns. then the way is very very short.

But if you had to disinfect all your gear and your friends picking it up for you, only enhances the risk of them getting infected, that feature alone would shake things up.

Having Items degradable in SA, would also bear a risk of items being destroyed during your death.

Things like that in combination would make death a lot more horrible than re-log-timers. They are just annoying. Locking the corpse is only unfair to loners and survivors playing alone. everyone with a friend can bypass it.

How about once you die, your CD key is banned and you have to purchase the entire game again?

Have you suggested that in the WarZ forums? they might like the idea there.

As I said, it's just the bare bones of a suggestion in the "death is costly" area.

Everybody want something done about it, but nobody has any idea what.

I still think, to consider what real problems death would bring and to try to implement those is preferable to any plain "you cannot do that" solution, limiting the players options.

Infection, Degradation, A lot more items and Encumberance System together will change a lot about it i believe. If you need to find clothes, to be able to get to the body, it takes longer. If your friends cannot carry all your stuff, they cannot loot you dry. If items are degradable, they might be damaged or destroyed, baring a risk of loosing gear with every time you get killed.

So getting killed might not only destroy you, but maybe also your DMR, NVG and other gear you might miss. If the cause of death influences the damage done to the gear, shooting down a heli to get to the gear of the people in it, is a really bad idea. Try to get a box of matches from a burnt corpse.. shouldn't be possible...

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Unfortunately, in such an artificial situation (respawning after death) the simplest and most effective means to hinder re-gearing will themselves be artificial.

Considering the alternatives, item degradation will prevent infinitely rearming from your own corpse, but to stay authentic which items are damaged and to what degree would largely depend on the death you suffered.

Being eaten by zombies is unlikely to damage a rifle, for example. But your clothing, backpack and soft items would be at risk.

This would negate some of the problem, not all of it.

I agree, infection would discourage squadmates from gathering your gear, but to risk disease from a fresh corpse doesn't sit right with me. Unless of course the person had died from an infectious disease.

It could be explained away if close proximity to zeds were to guarantee some form of dangerous infection. This would depend on the (as of yet unrevealed) lore and still wouldn't necessarily prevent a determinator from looting their own body.

[Ziliphade 20]

How about the longer you live the shorter the cooldown. May inspire some to go for a long life. Short life/small cooldown just keeps the city deathmatch alive.

I was not originally a fan of the lockout timer deal that has been brought up multiple times ( glitch or hacker death)..but i mean if you are dead there is no real rush to get back to that particular server anyway i suppose ,so it may work. Not being able to loot your own body should have been implemented a long time back.

Like Chab posted above, there is always a way around a supposed 'fix' though.

Hetsy y u gotta crush all mah dreams in ebery tred ;-;

[Griffith 62]

You shouldn't be able to loot your body, that's fair enough.

But no timers, with no self-looting they are pointless and only further punish players with limited time and/or patience.

You are not looting "your body" because that person is dead when u respawn u are a new survior. Supported by the fact you cant move a tent you have deployed after you die

Timers suck it will cause more troll camping

Edited March 20, 2013 by Griffith

[Ziliphade 20]

You are not looting "your body" because that person is dead when u respawn u are a new survior. Supported by the fact you cant move a tent you have deployed after you die

Timers suck it will cause more troll camping

Having knowledge of the exact location of that dead person does NOT make you an new survivor

[thesodesa 99]

Just make the bodies disappear faster? Like, within 5 minutes of dying.

That's enough time for your buddies/killer to pick up any disease ridden( :)) valuables you might have had on you, while also preventing you from just running back to the corpse.

This is not a huge issue for me, but it would be nice if the temptation of running back to your corpse could be stifled somehow, be it through diseases or whatever.

Edited March 20, 2013 by TheSodesa

[Ziliphade 20]

Just make the bodies disappear faster? Like, within 5 minutes of dying.

That's enough time for your buddies/killer to pick up any disease ridden( :)) valuables you might have had on you, while also preventing you from just running back to the corpse.

This is not a huge issue for me, but it would be nice if the temptation of running back to your corpse could be stifled somehow, be it through diseases or whatever.

Other peoples suggestions of just not spawning on the coast/ spawning as far away from your body as possible actually changed my mind a bit, I would like to see that idea in more detail

[ButtHat 96]

Everyone who purchases the SA is also given one cyanide capsule they place in their mouth. Upon dying you will be instructed to bite down on your capsule. If you fail to accomplish this on your own, a band of assassin ninjas will flip out on you and totally destroy everything and everyone you ever loved...and bang your girlfriend. Haha, just kidding, they'll know you don't have a girlfriend.

[Ziliphade 20]

Everyone who purchases the SA is also given one cyanide capsule they place in their mouth. Upon dying you will be instructed to bite down on your capsule. If you fail to accomplish this on your own, a band of assassin ninjas will flip out on you and totally destroy everything and everyone you ever loved...and bang your girlfriend. Haha, just kidding, they'll know you don't have a girlfriend.

All these peoples on these forums, makin me chuckle, it's gonna be a chucklepocalypse

[Hatchet_Reloaded 14]

The only way I can see you not being able to loot your own body *realistically* is if you start off fresh in a new body and they implement a point/skill system where certain higher tech items aren't able to be used until you have levelled up so to speak.

I know it sounds stupid but we all think we know what we are doing with say a M240 Machine gun because we have seen them in films or maybe you've even had experience with said items...but in the real world if you were dumped on the beach amidst a zombie outbreak would we really know what we were doing? It might need maintenance for example. Maybe it could be story line based and like Stalker we could all have amnesia hence the need to relearn abilities haha

[Ziliphade 20]

The only way I can see you not being able to loot your own body *realistically* is if you start off fresh in a new body and they implement a point/skill system where certain higher tech items aren't able to be used until you have levelled up so to speak.

I know it sounds stupid but we all think we know what we are doing with say a M240 Machine gun because we have seen them in films or maybe you've even had experience with said items...but in the real world if you were dumped on the beach amidst a zombie outbreak would we really know what we were doing? It might need maintenance for example. Maybe it could be story line based and like Stalker we could all have amnesia hence the need to relearn abilities haha

I have heard that idea numerous times and it is probably my favorite, however it is often followed by brilliant comments such as "lol go play WoW then nerd"

[Ziliphade 20]

I have heard that idea numerous times and it is probably my favorite, but sadly it is often followed by brilliant comments such as "lol go play WoW then nerd"

[Ziliphade 20]

Could a mod delete my comment that replied to my other comment, hit a button by accident @Inception

Edited March 20, 2013 by Ziliphade

[thesodesa 99]

I'm all for the endurance type of skills that build slowly, but not allowing a player to fire a gun because they aren't at a certain level is just silly.

Making the gun handling like it is in a game called Receiver is more ideal in my opinion.

[Ziliphade 20]

I'm all for the endurance type of skills that build slowly, but not allowing a player to fire a gun because they aren't at a certain level is just silly.

Making the gun handling like it is in a game called Receiver is more ideal in my opinion.

Good point, I suppose it wouldn't make any sense at all if a normal person found a light machine gun and didn't know how to fire it whatsoever just because it looked big and complicated.

[thesodesa 99]

Good point, I suppose it wouldn't make any sense at all if a normal person found a light machine gun and didn't know how to fire it whatsoever just because it looked big and complicated.

Indeed. There would be a weird inconsistency with you being able to fire a pistol, but having no clue how to fire any of the bigger weapons. The basic user-end function is the same, just squeeze the trigger.

[Talibambi 119]

Make guns more rare. The fact that people can stockpile or replace gear super fast is the reason why death doesnt matter too much. Remove the current system of particular areas have particular items. All areas need to be able to spawn every tier of item. Dont expect to find an AS50 in a house? Sure you do if that gun belonged to someone or was obtained by someone before/after the infection broke out.

Just move gear so it doesnt all spawn in the same areas and/or reduce the frequency of military gear spawning. Make people have to use lee enfields and whatnot because good guns are rare. Couple this with lower chance of food/drink spawn and yeah.. you get the picture.

This will make people feel death... not some silly timer.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Talibambi