How Do We Manage This?

[person915 345]

I see a problem that is apparant in DayZ, and is most likely to get worse.

We can agree, wholly or somewhat, that Dean's first intentions of DayZ was in some part, whether large or small, as a social experiment. See how people would react, and live.

Well, there's a problem here.

Now, I for one support the idea that if you washed ashore a foreign country with no law, military, or anything in place, didn't know anyone, didn't remember your background, and didn't speak the language, you wouldn't give a hoot and probably would go shooting people gung-ho.

BUT

Everytime I play DayZ, I think, "OK, I can get matches, a hatchet, and a knife and escape to the woods and survive." But then what? The game just isn't INTERESTING at that point. There's no more challenge. You're away from zombies, and away from players. But the lack of engagement isn't the problem. It's the fact that it is what people would do in an apocalypse, but it's shit boring! When you play a game, you do it to have fun. In real life, you'd mill around the camp, watching perimeter and hunting when you needed, occupying yourself. That can't happen in DayZ.

The need for engagement forces us into action, and we end up getting hurt or worse. It isn't like Project Zomboid where you're thankful to live a few days in peace, or can skip time ahead, where actually days only take less than an hour.

And one of the biggest time-consumers in PZ, is building a home, but you can't do that in DayZ, and never fully will be, and here's why:

Time doesn't stop. Of course, once PZ goes MP it will face this problem too, but think about it. If you had a home in DayZ, you would be there forever. Let's just say you logged out in it. Well, IRL, you'd be defending and living in that home. But you can't, because you've "logged out". Someone can come and take it, and you can't do anything about it.

I'm still asking myself, "How do we make day-to-day surviving fun, and how (when we get to it) will we handle making player bases?" Right now, I don't see an answer, and it's putting me off of the standalone. It wouldn't be zombie survival, and I can see why Dean and Co. are taking a more MMO approach to it, because you act as an adventurer at that point, always seeking excitement; it's never enough to just survive.

So discuss, community, and don't feel like you have to respond directly to me. I want to hear what other people think and come up with.

I once heard from someone that if you have an opinion, and it can't stand up to everyone else's, then your point is invalid. So if you come in here and say that this isn't a problem and everything's fine and the small article I wrote is invalid and/or not enough for you, prepare to be challenged, because my point is valid,

SO DISCUSS IT!

[master11388 23]

Make Zombies able to hit you while you are running away from them. If Zombies would be a real challange the day-to-day surviving would be fun.

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

Dang. That gives me a lot to think about.

fff- I'm too tired for this.

[reidloS doG 38]

I hope you know being valid and being correct are two different things. Valid is a statement that actually makes sense, it is coherent. Correct means it's verifiable fact, and the way you say it at the end, I think you mean correct.

Rocket has stated he would like to implement base-building in some way. If you are soloing, I would imagine his underground storage system he would like to implement as being your option for soloing the game. You could pack your stuff underground in the middle of no where, have the underground storage be near a bush, and only you can access it.

But you can't, because you've "logged out". Someone can come and take it, and you can't do anything about it.

Now this is a problem with solo playing if you have an actual base. But if you do have a team to work with, a fairly large clan, this is still not a problem. In DayZMod when it first came out, I was a part of a group called NWO. They actually had 24/7 surveillance on their base camp, a.k.a. devils castle, but soon afterwards stopped doing that because of ghosters and hackers.

At the end of a opinion it would be nice to know exactly what that opinion is. I'm not exactly sure what it is on your end, so please formerly type it out.

This is what I think you are saying: Because DayZ cannot symbolize 24/7 surveillance from a individual that logs off, the game is not able to have a day to day realistic survival aspect.

My opinion: With underground hidden storage and 24/7 group surveillance of an acquired area, it is truly possible to have those mad max moments we've wanted in gaming for so long.

[person915 345]

Make Zombies able to hit you while you are running away from them. If Zombies would be a real challange the day-to-day surviving would be fun.

I hope you know being valid and being correct are two different things. Valid is a statement that actually makes sense, it is coherent. Correct means it's verifiable fact, and the way you say it at the end, I think you mean correct.

Rocket has stated he would like to implement base-building in some way. If you are soloing, I would imagine his underground storage system he would like to implement as being your option for soloing the game. You could pack your stuff underground in the middle of no where, have the underground storage be near a bush, and only you can access it.

Now this is a problem with solo playing if you have an actual base. But if you do have a team to work with, a fairly large clan, this is still not a problem. In DayZMod when it first came out, I was a part of a group called NWO. They actually had 24/7 surveillance on their base camp, a.k.a. devils castle, but soon afterwards stopped doing that because of ghosters and hackers.

At the end of a opinion it would be nice to know exactly what that opinion is. I'm not exactly sure what it is on your end, so please formerly type it out.

This is what I think you are saying: Because DayZ cannot symbolize 24/7 surveillance from a individual that logs off, the game is not able to have a day to day realistic survival aspect.

My opinion: With underground hidden storage and 24/7 group surveillance of an acquired area, it is truly possible to have those mad max moments we've wanted in gaming for so long.

Zombies hitting you while running would not solve any of that problem -_-. The woods are still boring and your base is vacant when logged off, but zombies can hit you while running. See how this doesn't match up? I'd like that feature, but it just doesn't fit here.

-------

Surveillance of a base is boring. Joining a clan:

"OK, you need to guard the base for 1 & 1/2 hours while we go on an operation and have fun. There are no zombies around, and players aren't likely to come, but have fun!"

"Bu-"

*they all run off, but the newbie"

"FFS, I'm not doing this."

*newbie logs off*

I mean, having a base set up in Elektro, it'd be fun, because you have encounters and danger is everywhere. But safeguarding a base just because and it being say really far north is just fucking boring. It's not like living. You're just staring at the ceiling. You know if you die, you can come back to the base and pick up whatever's left, then make a new one fairly easily.

If someone was coming after the base, it'd be fun, but when you logged out, not so much.

Also, joining a clan that big is just stupid. It's bound to have people that are "not of the best quality", will fuck up things for everyone, hard to establish relationships, is hard to manage and gets rid of the true aspect of organized teamwork, and to put those specific arguments completely aside (as in if you rebute on those I won't comment) there's the fact that a lot of people don't enjoy playing that way and organizing a group that big is ridiculous just to sustain one or a few bases in a video game, which are more valid arguments than opinions as were the others.

What I'm saying is that in an apocalypse, every day is a struggle and you miss so much because time goes on without you in that world. You can't experience it all.

Not to mention it makes the drolling things incredibly boring, and it ends up with a few blown up cars and some bullet holes in you, just because when you're playing the game you want a thrill.

I believe making the survival miserable (meaning zombie hits are most likely to either infect you after just a scratch, or leave you virtually unscathed, food and water are scarce, ammo too, among other things such as weather effects and issues, bla bla bla) will help the fact that after so much time the game doesn't demand that much and you go off on a redneck adventure and get yourself killed.

Unfortunately, it doesn't help that your camp can get raided even if you logged right next to it and there's nothing you can do about it, even if you could have taken out the unarmed player that came charging through the woods and randomly found the place.

[Charb 298]

Nothing to discuss.

Player bases are slated for end of this year, I believe I recall hearing dean say DEC. plenty of R-mod base building on various servers right now you should try...

When it hits steam we aren't going to even have vehicles for the first month possibly... it will still be an alpha.

I'd like to see more endgame-esque things to do, but with the new health/infection system this game (which is about surviving) will be alot more challenging.

[person915 345]

Nothing to discuss.

Player bases are slated for end of this year, I believe I recall hearing dean say DEC. plenty of R-mod base building on various servers right now you should try...

When it hits steam we aren't going to even have vehicles for the first month possibly... it will still be an alpha.

I'd like to see more endgame-esque things to do, but with the new health/infection system this game (which is about surviving) will be alot more challenging.

"Slated for the end of this year"

Statements like this don't matter. The same can be said for how people just ignored how we were using finite fossil fuels as major sources of energy with no plan to find an alternative solution.

Still, even in the standalone, the forest will be boring, and surviving will be dredging, and camps won't matter, which is the main part of why I have a problem with the fact this happens.

[Charb 298]

Everytime I play DayZ, I think, "OK, I can get matches, a hatchet, and a knife and escape to the woods and survive." But then what? The game just isn't INTERESTING at that point. There's no more challenge. You're away from zombies, and away from players. But the lack of engagement isn't the problem.

The need for engagement forces us into action, and we end up getting hurt or worse.

And one of the biggest time-consumers in PZ, is building a home, but you can't do that in DayZ, and never fully will be, and here's why:

Time doesn't stop. Of course, once PZ (Project Zomboid) goes MP (Multi-player) it will face this problem too, but think about it. If you had a home in DayZ, you would be there forever. Let's just say you logged out in it. Well, IRL, you'd be defending and living in that home. But you can't, because you've "logged out". Someone can come and take it, and you can't do anything about it.

I'm still asking myself, "How do we make day-to-day surviving fun, and how (when we get to it) will we handle making player bases?"

They want to have roaming zombies worldwide, they understand the woods are fairly safe. The Need for Engagement? That is a personal opinion. If my friends and I want to setup camp near Lopatino, loot it regularly, and defend against anyone entering "Our Area" so be it. That might be all that I need to do, to enjoy the game. Everyone want's something different.

Bases will be underground, probably a little hatch in the ground you need to find if you want to enter someone's bunker. So you can't defend it 24/7 and... Why do you feel there is a NEED to do that? if you feel that is your priority and how you WANT to play, then that is how you should play the game. You should MAKE FRIENDS from various regions/countries and have people be part of YOUR community.

Having a vehicle, be it a bicycle, car, ural, or even heli taken from your camp sucks. Having all your tents raided/smashed aren't fun either. But as much as it SUCKS, it is still PART of this game. It is an integral part of the mechanism that is DAYZ. losing your gear, and rebuilding. There should be no guaranteed way to keep what you have forever. I really think they have the potential to do a good job on instanced/underground bunkers. I also think they will be hard to find.

"Slated for the end of this year"

Statements like this don't matter.

Still, even in the standalone, the forest will be boring, and surviving will be dredging, and camps won't matter, which is the main part of why I have a problem with the fact this happens.

lol if me pointing out the facts that certain things are still being worked on and haven't been implemented in any testing phase...just... doesn't matter... uhm okay? You should change your forum handle to Dubya.

[reidloS doG 38]

Zombies hitting you while running would not solve any of that problem -_-. The woods are still boring and your base is vacant when logged off, but zombies can hit you while running. See how this doesn't match up? I'd like that feature, but it just doesn't fit here.

-------

Surveillance of a base is boring. Joining a clan:

"OK, you need to guard the base for 1 & 1/2 hours while we go on an operation and have fun. There are no zombies around, and players aren't likely to come, but have fun!"

"Bu-"

*they all run off, but the newbie"

"FFS, I'm not doing this."

*newbie logs off*

I mean, having a base set up in Elektro, it'd be fun, because you have encounters and danger is everywhere. But safeguarding a base just because and it being say really far north is just fucking boring. It's not like living. You're just staring at the ceiling. You know if you die, you can come back to the base and pick up whatever's left, then make a new one fairly easily.

If someone was coming after the base, it'd be fun, but when you logged out, not so much.

Also, joining a clan that big is just stupid. It's bound to have people that are "not of the best quality", will fuck up things for everyone, hard to establish relationships, is hard to manage and gets rid of the true aspect of organized teamwork, and to put those specific arguments completely aside (as in if you rebute on those I won't comment) there's the fact that a lot of people don't enjoy playing that way and organizing a group that big is ridiculous just to sustain one or a few bases in a video game, which are more valid arguments than opinions as were the others.

What I'm saying is that in an apocalypse, every day is a struggle and you miss so much because time goes on without you in that world. You can't experience it all.

Not to mention it makes the drolling things incredibly boring, and it ends up with a few blown up cars and some bullet holes in you, just because when you're playing the game you want a thrill.

I believe making the survival miserable (meaning zombie hits are most likely to either infect you after just a scratch, or leave you virtually unscathed, food and water are scarce, ammo too, among other things such as weather effects and issues, bla bla bla) will help the fact that after so much time the game doesn't demand that much and you go off on a redneck adventure and get yourself killed.

Unfortunately, it doesn't help that your camp can get raided even if you logged right next to it and there's nothing you can do about it, even if you could have taken out the unarmed player that came charging through the woods and randomly found the place.

You've never played with a large organized group like that. Especially a survivor group. There are more bandits than survivors. Making a base literally creates a brand new hot spot, and word reaches out quickly that that is THE base to infiltrate. Having a large group creates the most interesting experiences I've ever had. People infiltrate the group to get the resources they need and to kill the people within the group. This type of meta-gaming is only possible through these user made bases.

Every hour on the hour Devil's castle was under attack. I am not exaggerating when I say this: When people know you have something they want (supplies, cars, weapons, ammo, camo), they will do anything to get it. If that experience isn't something you want, then fine. Solo the game. The opportunity is there. For future reference, I can guarantee you CQF will be a large group that will try and do exactly that. We will protect our borders better than most survivor groups. So if you find yourself interested in fighting that kind of a situation, come attack us or better yet join us. Either way, we both benefit from the situation.

There's nothing else to be said on this subject from either of us.