mod: close thread ty

[Derbysieger (DayZ) 0]

While I certainly don't like third person view, I don't mind it as much as crosshairs in DayZ.

I absolutely HATE crosshairs in this game (Arma 2 in general). And there shouldn't be any server with crosshairs AND third person enabled. This combination is absolutely atrocious in my opinion and doesn't belong in a game with PvP elements.

There is a very good reason crosshairs and third person are disabled in Project Reality: Arma 2 - it absolutely ruins the PVP experience.

What also needs to be mentioned is that just setting a server to veteran doesn't guarantee no third person and no crosshairs. The default setting for veteran allows third person and features minimalized crosshairs.

At the moment I simply avoid servers that have third person and crosshairs enabled. EU1-3 and Norway 1 are a good place but it often takes quite long time to get on these servers after 16:00h

[Arnoldio 2]

I agree, both crosshairs and 3rdp are good, but combined, its just pointless.

I am for disabling of both though.

[rynovh 0]

Hell, as far as I'm concerned, it would be nice if you couldn't even fire if you weren't in first person.

[dallas 5195]

3rd person view was here to stay when ArmA was called Operation Flashpoint and the year was called 2001. Servers have had the ability to enforce the difficulty level they prefere to all players on the server. If you don't like 3rd person view, find a server that blocks that option.

[sorophx 25]

The OP made a valid point and those that are disagreeing haven't added any weight to their argument.

here's some weight to the argument

as already mentioned, your FOV is a lot narrower than it should be, third-person viewmode (TPV) compensates for it by allowing you to see the small area around your character

as already mentioned, sometimes it's hard to tell whether your character is standing or crouching. since we don't have any UI elements displaying current stance, and even making one step in an upright position will aggro nearby zombies, TPV allows to make less unnecessary mistakes

there's this thing, I'm not sure how to call it (English is not my native language), basically, whenever you stand on an edge of something in real life, you don't have to stare at your feet to know that one more step will cause you to fall, you can feel it. in video games there's no such possibility. there are many examples of similar situations. TPV allows you to be aware of your character's body's position at all times.

another thing you can do in real life and can't do in FPS games, peek over or around obstacles (walls, for example). since there's no climbing or jumping in ArmA, I don't see how seeing over a wall that's as high as my character is "breakin' imme-shun". same goes for lying behind a rock. are you seriously saying that being able to see what's behind the rock is unrealistic? like, I can't just pop my head from any side without having to expose half of my body in real life?

and the last thing, the guys from Bohemia have said they preferred to have both available for the reasons stated above.

they let you choose how to play, so what's up with this desire to force everyone to play the game the way you think is right? make your own mod, get thousands of people to play it and then force anything you want on them

[tuchmaipp 2]

The OP made a valid point and those that are disagreeing haven't added any weight to their argument.

here's some weight to the argument

as already mentioned' date=' your FOV is a lot narrower than it should be, third-person viewmode (TPV) compensates for it by allowing you to see the small area around your character

as already mentioned, sometimes it's hard to tell whether your character is standing or crouching. since we don't have any UI elements displaying current stance, and even making one step in an upright position will aggro nearby zombies, TPV allows to make less unnecessary mistakes

there's this thing, I'm not sure how to call it (English is not my native language), basically, whenever you stand on an edge of something in real life, you don't have to stare at your feet to know that one more step will cause you to fall, you can feel it. in video games there's no such possibility. there are many examples of similar situations. TPV allows you to be aware of your character's body's position at all times.

another thing you can do in real life and can't do in FPS games, peek over or around obstacles (walls, for example). since there's no climbing or jumping in ArmA, I don't see how seeing over a wall that's as high as my character is "breakin' imme-shun". same goes for lying behind a rock. are you seriously saying that being able to see what's behind the rock is unrealistic? like, I can't just pop my head from any side without having to expose half of my body in real life?

and the last thing, the guys from Bohemia have said they preferred to have both available for the reasons stated above.

they let you choose how to play, so what's up with this desire to force everyone to play the game the way you think is right? make your own mod, get thousands of people to play it and then force anything you want on them

[/quote']

all of these things you've mentioned are valid to the point that cheatview is a great visual aid and no one can argue against that. the problem is that while cheatview helps out in a lot of respects it also enables abuse/cheating. nothing can outweigh that fact.

[singularity (DayZ) 3]

all of these things you've mentioned are valid to the point that cheatview is a great visual aid and no one can argue against that. the problem is that while cheatview helps out in a lot of respects it also enables abuse/cheating. nothing can outweigh that fact.

What part of this is cheating? Cheating is, by definition, doing something outside the rules or boundaries of a game or sport to gain an advantage or alter the outcome. Third person view is not cheating, as it is available to everyone if it is enabled in a server. You are attempting to describe a feature you do not like or agree with as something outside the bounds of fair and legitimate play.

There are servers in which a player's situational awareness is forcibly crippled by a lack of third person view availability, and should those servers be full, a spot will either open shortly, or other servers can be made available. Finally, if you're in a position where third person view is the reason you died, you're bad enough at ArmA that nothing and no one can save you. When you have 225km^2 to plan your axis of advance, and you let it come down to whether or not someone could see you over a chest high wall, you're the bad player, not your opponent. If you're that bad, then after you've crusaded for the successful removal of 3rdperson, you'll need a new scapegoat to blame on just being bad at a game.

[Derbysieger (DayZ) 0]

Can people please stop accusing other players of being bad at the game because they don't like TPS. This is BS!

There is a very good reason why third person is generally considered a "cheat" in the (very small) Arma 2 PvP community.

The reason is simply that in some situations a player can get a HUGE advantage over another player who can do nothing about it even if he is a good player. Simple.

Example:

Last week I was laying in dense bushes behind a small wall waiting for two bandits to move by. I accidentally moved and they heard me because they were really close but they were not able to see me because it was night and I was in good cover and concealment.

Now normally I would have waited for them to leave but TPS gave me a huge advantage in this situation. I simply looked over the bush and the wall I was lying behind. When they looked away for a moment I crouched, took two quick shots with my Winchester and one was dead and the other Alt+F4'd, heavily wounded. This is exactly why I hate it and the reason I stopped playing on Servers that have it enabled.

I can't tell if I ever died due to TPS enabled. May be I did, may be not. I really don't care that much.

In singleplayer I use third person all the time when I play with AI because it really gives you the situational awareness you need to effectively order your subordinates around (i.e. save their lives with a quick order). But when I'm a subordinate in a SP mission I don't use it because I generally find it immersion breaking.

The solution is simple:

enough servers with and without TPS

[singularity (DayZ) 3]

My point, Derby, (and I'm sorry for being frustrated) is that arma is so big. It's so, so, so big. And people from dayz are playing it like it's BF3 or CSS or MW3, and they're driving down the MSRs at a full sprint, or they'll "flank" by going not even half a kilometer around into the first few meters of woods, and they seize upon any reason to decry that it wasn't their fault, they're not unprepared for the harsh realities of a game this size, that it was those evil third person players cheating. They won't, or can't, understand that this much size means that if you aren't picking when and where your battles are happening, you genuinely are a bad player. You're not unsalvagable, but you don't understand how arma works, and you need to learn.

There's no requirement you engage the enemy on his terms in ArmA, it isn't a corridor shooter. Getting down and dirty into the details is not something arma does well, and TPS is a crutch for the parts of the game that are.. a game.

[Derbysieger (DayZ) 0]

tbh I usually ignore those, silently shake my head or have a lough with my friends in teamspeak.

Not much you can do about whiners.

If someone feels cheated because of TPS then I ask myself why is he playing on a server that has it enabled. It's not that it takes forever to get on a decent veteran server.

And you can't always pick where and when the battle is happening because the maps are so big. Even if you're carefull you won't alway be able see a cleverly concealed sniper that easily and you definately can't see someone behind a wall above you without hacks while he can see you, if he is using tps to his advantage. I'm not even talking about night time.

The reason I'm no longer playing on servers with tps, apart from feeling like cheating everytime I use TPS to my advantage, is that for me it takes so much away from the incredible experience DayZ offers.

I see your point but I don't agree with it. And as long as players have the option to choose between Non-TPS and TPS servers I don't see that much of a problem.

I sometimes just wish the mod didn't get so popular this fast.

[lordsilence 1]

Thirdperson view is very imbalanced.

I my self can use this to kill pretty much without fear of ever dying.

Only thing that can beat us is "login trap" (server hop to get better position and then login to pop us from behind).

For now we've got a group of bandits who stay on roofs , prone with thirdperson on to watch incoming players. They can never see us, but we can see them from far away without getting ourselves spotted.

Why do we do this? Cause it's allowed and others do it.

I wouldn't be sad to see it go, I've been popped by thirdperson view roof campers too .

[Metiphis 4]

Legion is making Atlanta 4 into a Hardcore server for those that prefer it.

[Pallidum 33]

I fully agree that thirdperson view is imbalanced and it can be exploited. I also maintain that this works both ways. There's a guy camping behind a corner using third-person view? Yes, that's somewhat unfair. People hunting him, using third-person view to scout as they try to close on him? Yes, it's also unfair.

Thirdperson view also breaks immersion, which may be a bad thing in a game like this. In that regard, thirdperson view is also a bad thing.

However, there are also things that third-person view does for us. For example, third-person view lets us compensate for limitations in computergames - such as letting us see while prone - if I'm prone, grass in front of me blocks my view. BUT, due to LOD, someone several hundred meters away looking at me won't render the grass but they'll render me just fine. Third-person view also gives people situational awareness that the first-person view in modern games lack, but we have in real life.

Also, third-person view makes the game playable for people who suffer from motion sickness. When taking a shot, I'm always in first-person view, but when moving around, I have to switch to third-person view or I'll be sick.

Crosshairs, on the other hand, need to go. Same thing with the namescan. :)

[Derbysieger (DayZ) 0]

Of course it works both ways. It's just that in my experience more often than not only one party knows about the others' presence, thus giving one side an even bigger advantage than they already have. I surprised a lot of guys in towns and could have easily shot them (I only shoot when I really feel threatened) and I have been surprised by others. Sometimes I got shot, one time robbed but more often than that I had a nice chat, maybe helped a guy our received help and then we went our ways. I always try direct comms because sometimes they work quite well.

As for FOV there are a few things you can do.

1. you can double tap numpad - to zoom out giving you a slightly higher fov and

2. you can tweak a setting in one of the config files. Don't know which it was though.

[tuchmaipp 2]

all of these things you've mentioned are valid to the point that cheatview is a great visual aid and no one can argue against that. the problem is that while cheatview helps out in a lot of respects it also enables abuse/cheating. nothing can outweigh that fact.

What part of this is cheating? Cheating is' date=' by definition, doing something outside the rules or boundaries of a game or sport to gain an advantage or alter the outcome. Third person view is not cheating, as it is available to everyone if it is enabled in a server. You are attempting to describe a feature you do not like or agree with as something outside the bounds of fair and legitimate play.

There are servers in which a player's situational awareness is forcibly crippled by a lack of third person view availability, and should those servers be full, a spot will either open shortly, or other servers can be made available. Finally, if you're in a position where third person view is the reason you died, you're bad enough at ArmA that nothing and no one can save you. When you have 225km^2 to plan your axis of advance, and you let it come down to whether or not someone could see you over a chest high wall, you're the bad player, not your opponent. If you're that bad, then after you've crusaded for the successful removal of 3rdperson, you'll need a new scapegoat to blame on just being bad at a game.

[/quote']

My point, Derby, (and I'm sorry for being frustrated) is that arma is so big. It's so, so, so big. And people from dayz are playing it like it's BF3 or CSS or MW3, and they're driving down the MSRs at a full sprint, or they'll "flank" by going not even half a kilometer around into the first few meters of woods, and they seize upon any reason to decry that it wasn't their fault, they're not unprepared for the harsh realities of a game this size, that it was those evil third person players cheating. They won't, or can't, understand that this much size means that if you aren't picking when and where your battles are happening, you genuinely are a bad player. You're not unsalvagable, but you don't understand how arma works, and you need to learn.

There's no requirement you engage the enemy on his terms in ArmA, it isn't a corridor shooter. Getting down and dirty into the details is not something arma does well, and TPS is a crutch for the parts of the game that are.. a game.

you talk about arma2 not being the same game as bf3/css/etc yet you make this game out to be baby mode at the same time by advocating cheatview. "getting down and dirty" IS something that arma 2 does well specifically BECAUSE its not like the other FPS and accordingly its more rewarding.

As described multiple times in this thread, TPV is not equal for all players in all scenarios. Being able to see past walls and around corners without looking is beyond the realm of realism and gives advantage to a player when there shouldnt be any. You can't do it in real life, you shouldn't be able to do it here. this is a very simple concept that even lesser games like COD:MW understands. The first person view may be limiting in arma2, but it is well within the realm of realism though hampered by the games engine. Given a choice however, rather than have a magical eye that lets me see things i shouldnt, and having the knowledge that other players have this magical eye as well, i'd rather choose first person view because it acts as the great equalizer in this equation. In real life, you dont worry if the enemy can see you or not when he physically cant. this "crutch" is an abusive mechanic that i suspect was never meant for serious multiplayer but rather for single player.

DayZ creates an illusion that is atmospheric and realistic enough to produce the genuine emotion of fear, and cheatview is nothing but a big fuck you to that. by advocating the use of third person in a game that touts itself as a military sim you are spitting in the face of what sets arma2 apart from the rest.

[Jori 2]

All that can be sayid is sayid. I'm agree that best choice is 1st person view.

I would like to force DayZ to play 1st person, but well, if some people like play in 3rd person i can see with good eyes that some servers allow it.

But, the problem is that 90% of the servers are playing at 3rd person view and it's very very hard to me to find servers working well and good ping that uses 1st person. That sucks.

I think that it had to be inversal. 90% of servers in 1st person and 10% in 3rd person.

This mod pretends to be realistic. Eating, bandage wounds, blood etc and etc. But playing in 3rd person??? No, really no NO.

Sometimes i play DayZ runing down the streets in cherno feels like i'm playing GTA and i'm not joking.

People can say whatever he wants. But i really think that force 1st person goes acordly well with the filosophy of this game.

Of course i use 3rd person in regular servers. But i am forced to do it to not being in disadvantadge of others than do it.

This problem (few servers (or) mod don't force it) has to be adressed. But well, this is my opinion.

We play arcade games like L4D or COD in 1st person. I can't understand why we are playing this simulator mod in 3rd person. Weird ... weird.... :(

[Bandit Hunter 29]

Things I noticed in your topic. You used 3rd person to increase your kill count, and considered it a "score." I think your missing the point of DayZ

[defekt 0]

It's true that TPV can be used to "cheat" in that it allows a player to spot an enemy without ever exposing himself. Because of this, it's obvious why many are against its use in DayZ.

That said, when I'm running 5,000 meters with a couple of friends, it's much, much more pleasing to use third person. Running long distances in 1P just gives you a headache, and personally I find it pretty cool to watch yourself (in 3rd person) run alongside teammates with the sun to your backs.

And, while TPV is enjoyable, crosshairs and nametags really need to be disabled even on regular servers. Those have absolutely no place in a game like this.

[SRTie4k 1]

I also enjoy 3rd person for running. The whole head-bob thing is extremely annoying and very unnatural feeling. I don't know about you guys, but when I run in real life, my vision is nowhere near that jerky and erratic.

[naizarak 41]

this is a common problem with all 3rd person games. but what can you do?

besides this game was designed from the ground-up for 3rd person. 1st person is just too slow and clunky.

[Swi1ch 39]

The argument about 1st person being better for immersion is just not correct. There's a mound of research on this (Google 3rd person view immersion, or 1st person vs 3rd person, or anything along those lines). Both have advantages and disadvantages.

Seeing your character, their relation to the space around them and how they interact with the space and objects does a whole lot for immersion.

[.:14A41:.Pvt.p4lztZ 3]

I endorse this thread.

@Jori: Your right, it is weird.

[wakey 2]

Just find a server that forces first person view.

I only play on third person view-servers because I'm one of those that get hit by a bit of motion sickness and headache from the low FOV (And yes... I've turned the head bobing off. Thats not the problem).

arma2 have always been unplayable for me in first person. Only when I need to aim will I go into first person view.

So DayZ would unfortunately loose a player if all servers removed third person view. I hope that doesn't happen.

[Kolchak (DayZ) 5]

The only way first person is realistic is if you've lived your entire life with actual blinders on. There is NO periphery in first person. And before you say freelook and turn your head, the minute you turn your head it's not your periphery, it's your focus. With proper periphery, you can see in about a 160 degree arc in front of you, and unless you have a 3 monitor setup, first person doesn't give you this. Until it does, it's 3rd person for me.

[Akuze 0]

Playing this game in first person makes me sick to my stomach even with head bob turned off because of the atrociously clunky movement and jerky animations. I stay in third person about 90% of the time for this reason. I can't say that it doesn't give an advantage, because it does, but I would rather feel guilty because I saw someone that I shouldn't have than vomit all over my keyboard.