An easy way to build bases

[thesodesa 99]

the only thing im suggesting, that differs from the op, is to have bases where the players want, not just 10 predefined places on the map.

This is not possible with current technology, computing power and bandwidth.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Just a thought.

If the MAJOR influence on whether certain forms of construction are practical is the load on the servers, why not hande barricades and construction materials the way vehicles are handled?

Roll with me a minute. I'm just letting things pop into my head.

If there are a finite number of barricades/structures (wire, pallettes, sandbags etc.) already set-up somewhere on the map, players could find them, take them, and use them to build bases without really adding any new data to the server.

It would just be shuffling things around.

It would make the end-game require a LOT more organization than we've seen so far.

Players would need tools to remove/place structural items and would only be able to move these items one at a time.

The one item you carry could possibly take up your whole inventory, or a meta-inventory,so you can't operate normally while building.

Vehicles should be NECESSARY to move structural items across the map. Making the road to end-game a slow build-up, as opposed to blah, blah, blah, END.

As I say, that's just a few thoughts on the subject.

You can form the lynch-mob now.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Chabowski

[angrygargamel 12]

for the moving doors... you can use a bus...

i have secured a warehouse this way some times...

the one with the 2 double doors...

you can only enter the bus from the right, front or backside... not from the left side...

[thesodesa 99]

Just a thought.

If the MAJOR influence on whether certain forms of construction are practical is the load on the servers, why not hande barricades and construction materials the way vehicles are handled?

Roll with me a minute. I'm just letting things pop into my head.

If there are a finite number of barricades/structures (wire, pallettes, sandbags etc.) already set-up somewhere on the map, players could find them, take them, and use them to build bases without really adding any new data to the server.

It would just be shuffling things around.

It would make the end-game require a LOT more organization than we've seen so far.

Players would need tools to remove/place structural items and would only be able to move these items one at a time.

The one item you carry could possibly take up your whole inventory, or a meta-inventory,so you can't operate normally while building.

Vehicles should be NECESSARY to move structural items across the map. Making the road to end-game a slow build-up, as opposed to blah, blah, blah, END.

As I say, that's just a few thoughts on the subject.

You can form the lynch-mob now.

Excellent idea, no need for a lynch mob.

I think this is what some of the people suggesting above ground construction actually meant, but just weren't good enough at expressing themselves through writing (pointing to myself here).

The point is to make a compromise. It's just not technically possible to allow people to build entirely new structures.

[Private Evans 1303]

for the moving doors... you can use a bus...

i have secured a warehouse this way some times...

the one with the 2 double doors...

you can only enter the bus from the right, front or backside... not from the left side...

I do not want to use fuctioning vehicles ...I want to add a push script (used in Iron front 44 which is based on ARMA2) so that these vehicles or gates can be pushed forwards and backwards...that's it

but yeah you know what I mean :)

Edited March 8, 2013 by Private Evans

[thesodesa 99]

Excellent idea, no need for a lynch mob.

I think this is what some of the people suggesting above ground construction actually meant, but just weren't good enough at expressing themselves through writing (pointing to myself here).

The point is to make a compromise. It's just not technically possible to allow people to build entirely new structures.

Also, one of the main reasons, besides the immersion breaking aspects, of me not wanting instances in the game is that you could be standing just inside the entrance to and instance, but would be unable to hear a gunfight or a helicopter landing happening just outside the entrance, because there's a loading screen between you and the overworld.

Edited March 8, 2013 by TheSodesa

[thesodesa 99]

I do not want to use fuctioning vehicles ...I want to add a push script ( used in Iron front 44 which is based on ARMA") so that these vehicles or gates can be pushed forwards and backwards...that's it

Why wouldn't you be able to steal the vehicle?

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Well, I'm glad to be of some use for a change.

Depending on what sort of things are going to be possible after you have a base, there will still need to be a small amount of "new" objects. (for example: farm plots)

But limits on the number of inventory items that can become in-game entities (the way current sandbags, barbed wire, tank traps and tents do) will reduce the impact of above-ground bases on the server overall.

I see what you mean with the sound not passing between instances. I hadn't thought of that.

You could walk out your front door into a warzone without the slightest indication of trouble. That's a pretty serious downside.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Chabowski

[Private Evans 1303]

Just a thought.

If the MAJOR influence on whether certain forms of construction are practical is the load on the servers, why not hande barricades and construction materials the way vehicles are handled?

Roll with me a minute. I'm just letting things pop into my head.

If there are a finite number of barricades/structures (wire, pallettes, sandbags etc.) already set-up somewhere on the map, players could find them, take them, and use them to build bases without really adding any new data to the server.

It would just be shuffling things around.

It would make the end-game require a LOT more organization than we've seen so far.

Players would need tools to remove/place structural items and would only be able to move these items one at a time.

The one item you carry could possibly take up your whole inventory, or a meta-inventory,so you can't operate normally while building.

Vehicles should be NECESSARY to move structural items across the map. Making the road to end-game a slow build-up, as opposed to blah, blah, blah, END.

As I say, that's just a few thoughts on the subject.

You can form the lynch-mob now.

"Barbwire, sandbags, tank and bear traps could be used to fortify this places even more."

But I would do this optional and not as a basic structure building mechanic. Keep things simple :) Only thing needed is a predefined area, a working gate and some scripts.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

That's not what I was getting at.

The way I see it, you don't need predefined areas if the structures are able to be moved around.

Presetting "base" areas severely restricts the options and pretty much defeats the entire purpose of custom bases IMO.

[Private Evans 1303]

That's not what I was getting at.

The way I see it, you don't need predefined areas if the structures are able to be moved around.

Presetting "base" areas severely restricts the options and pretty much defeats the entire purpose of custom bases IMO.

You would need too much stuff to build a large camp and even if you could manage to build one it would not be really safe. Also how would you manage the zombie and loot spawns in such places and how could you handle players building base and then going offline for a longer time...how could you implement a safe working gate ? I think your idea would only work for temporary camps but not for real safe bases....

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

You would need too much stuff to build a large camp and even if you could manage to build one it would not be really safe.

What do you mean "too much stuff"?

Your base would only be as big as the sum of the parts used. That's all.

As for safety. That depends entirely on whether your base is built well or not.

It's not supposed to be a brief thing. Building any fortification should require a certain amount of dedication.

If that means you have to cooperate with others, good.

If that discourages some people from accepting a daunting challenge, also good.

Zombies and loot shouldn't spawn near players anyway, so that's irrelevant to this idea.

If you come back and find zeds in your camp waiting for you, you'd just have to clear them out. Simple as that.

As for players going offline. Their base sections would be up for grabs, same as they would have been initially.

Any placed object would be able to be moved, it would just take a while. That's the entire point.

Also, including some "state of repair" (being damaged by zeds/attackers, but also being damaged over-time) requirement would allow for people to maintain a base long-term (repairing with scrap), while letting abandoned sections fall into a state of disrepair, eventually breaking, and allowing the items to respawn elsewhere. Like vehicles do (sort of).

RE: gates.

In this entirely hypothetical situation, why couldn't there be a placeable gate? I don't understand your point here.

I actually quite like the "bus-gate" idea. But the vehicle would have to be on the inside to hinder security breaches.

Of course, it'd still be accessible without having to open the gate. It would just take more time.

As I've said; I think predefined "base" areas would be a poor solution.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Chabowski

[Private Evans 1303]

@ Chabowski

Building bases using barbed wire, tank traps and sandbags would make no sense and cause only problems. Large camps would of course require tons of resources and even if you could manage to build a camp this way it would not be safe...barbed wire, tank traps and sandbags do not stop zombies (barbed wire does not stop vehicles) and even if the devs would fix that every other player would be able to remove you barricades using a toolbox. You could not store your gear or park your vehicles inside your base without loosing everything when going offline. Such a camp would make no sense. Zombies and loot would of course still spawn inside large camps and we would end up with hundreds of idiots building fences and barricades around Stary Sobor military camp and the NW airfield barracks :(

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I feel like you haven't understood what I'm trying to suggest here.

I don't suggest building entirely out of barbed wire. We can do that already, it's been done. A lot. It sucks.

Inventory items which become in-game objects are going to cause lag. It's an unavoidable fact.

If all base building structures (literally any placeable object you can think of, not just barbed wire. Use your imagination) spawn already set up on the server and can be deconstructed and moved, there is no new data (load) added to the server.

Other players MUST be able to move your fortifications, or we'll have immovable, invincible barricades everywhere.

Any object placed by another person would take ~30 seconds or more to "deconstruct".

Your base should never be immune to attack. It's not a "safe zone" for your gear. That goes against the principle idea behind DayZ: It's not safe.

If you want more security, hide your stuff better.

Tank traps, sandbags, barbed wire should NOT be spawned as loot.

Instead, the in-game entities should be removable, placed in inventory (one at a time) and used for construction.

If zeds are spawning in your base while you're there, your base is too big.

If they spawn when you're away. Wipe them out.

If "idiots", as you put it, want to wall-in Stary military tents, let them.

It's not exactly a top-secret location, and they're not going to be able to maintain watch 24/7.

Their base will be found, robbed and destroyed. Simple as.

Now, no offence intended, but if you still don't understand, I don't know how else to explain.

Ask some specific questions if it'll help.

[Private Evans 1303]

@ Chabowski..

Ok... deconstructing barricades, fences and stuff and then using it somewhere else to fortify a camp sounds of course a lot better than using crappy barbed wire and tank traps. But for me this would still be a temporary camp and not a real base. Building a base that is not safe (at least for some time) is just a waste of time. I am also still pretty sure that your construction mechanics would be used a lot for trolling.

Predefined camps like decribed in my op would (also) cause no server lags but would povide a relative safe place for your gear (vehicles) even when being offline. This camps could be attacked and overtaken though or would be automatically abandonned if there is no player activity noticed by the game for a longer time period.There would be no chance for camping, trolling and placing barricades at stupid locations all over the map just for fun ! Beside this, predefined bases would mean having some extra hot spots and provide immersive locations for rollplaying. If not used, this places would be just normal locations spwaning loot and zombies.

But as always this is a matter of personal taste and preferencies :)

cheers :beans:

Edited March 10, 2013 by Private Evans

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

One of my main gripes with your idea is that every single player in the universe will know all the spots your base could possibly be.

That means, there's absolutely zero chance of remaining hidden. In which case, you'll be forced to constantly defend against attackers, or lose your stuff.

The idea of a "safe place" doesn't strike me as in-keeping with the rest of the DayZ feeling.

It just sounds like an idea suited to that other game. Or WoW.

On the topic of trolling, what you're saying about placing barricades everywhere is already possible in the mod, and it's only very rarely a problem.

In any case, people SHOULD be able to place barricades anywhere. That's the entire point.

If you want to block off a door, do it.

There are enough enterable buildings in SA that it's not exactly going to break the game to have one of them blocked off until the barricade is either moved or reset. (see my earlier post for details)

One of the basic principles of what I suggest is the daunting challenge of collecting and transporting materials.

It's got to be hassle to build up a base, or it just becomes a petty little job you could do on a whim.

It should require setting your mind to the task at hand.

For example. People aren't going to be carrying sheets of corrigated iron around, just to troll folks, if they can't fight while carrying it.

tl;dr

Preset areas will be known to everyone. This is BAD.

Your gear isn't supposed to be safe.

You should be able to barricade anything you want. (new base/existing building etc.)

It should be too risky to waste time trolling with it.

EDIT:

Since you and I aren't going to agree on the subject, I'd like to see what other folks opinons are.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Chabowski

[Private Evans 1303]

:D

Preset areas will be known to everyone. This is BAD.

Of course preset areas are known to everyone after some time but this is not a problem since this bases are meant for bigger groups, squads and clans. Everybody knows where Devils Castle is and that it is used by bandits most of the time. Such places could become market places, hospitals or even monasteries.

Your gear isn't supposed to be safe.

Gear would not be completely safe since this bases could be attacked and overtaken. Also squads would not need to park their helis and cars far beyond the playable map anymore which really sucks.

You should be able to barricade anything you want. (new base/existing building etc.)

For me this would be still temporary fortified places and no real bases, but I can't see why both things could not work together nicely :beans:

[joe_mcentire 2074]

base v. hideout

think about what you guys are talking about.

it seems as some talk about hideouts and some talk about base-complexes and then try to debate on it. comparing apples to oranges...

Edited March 11, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[timedance 120]

annother simple way could be a "key-system"...or lets say a PIN: * * * *

So for an static-base for example, who can only be entered via "this key"... - you are part of the camp, you have the key.

You die - other people, can steal your items/loot - and also "the key"...

+

you can go offline with no doubts of stealing or robbing your camp...

this key-pin can be changed by everyone who is in

edit: in standalone there will be undergroundbase... - maybe such a system? - so you can not go in via heli ;)

Edited March 11, 2013 by TiMEDANCE

[Private Evans 1303]

I think having 4 or 5 predefined camps could work fine together with underground bases and some advanced constructing mechanics for temporary hideouts/camps. Larger groups could overtake some of the bases, other players would prefer to go underground or just fortify a location to repair their heli or to make their stand against some other clan.....

Key sytems would work fine for a prison :) ...important thing is that players always must have a chance to attack and overtake a base

[joe_mcentire 2074]

bases should eventually have the potential to serve as some kind of end-game. to use them to re-establish a society...well as mentioned eventually..

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Your point about Devils castle simply doesn't adress my concerns.

What I've tried to point out is, your suggestion doesn't allow for "building" bases. Which is what people want.

Freedom is an important factor.

Even taking your suggestion. If barricades were handled as I suggest, there's no need for new buildings/scripts. At all.

Any place instantly becomes exactly what you need. There are WAY more buildings enterable in SA, so more choice.

What you've suggested, is a system of buildings where zeds don't spawn.

Even in the mod, Zeds don't spawn inside, and loot wont' spawn while you're there. (zeds shouldn't either, but they seem to spawn right in front of me all the time)

The only addition required is a gate, which as pointed out earlier, can be done with a bus/car.

I'm suggesting a way to defend/barricade ANY PART OF THE MAP, without adding extra server-load

You're suggesting adding new buildings, unnecessarily.

Again,

What I'm suggesting is a way to include barricades (in-world placeable objects) without increasing server-load.

EDIT:

I just read through the thread yet again. I still can't understand why you WANT to be restricted to preset areas.

All you need to achieve your suggestion is to stop zeds spawning within close range (75-150M) of players. (which shouldn't happen anyway)

Edited March 11, 2013 by Chabowski

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

The problem of static points is that it devolve the sandboxy feel of dayZ in a "capture and hold" meta game. I can puncture tires of a car flat by shooting them. The rules should become consistent across the board.

A determined player with the right tools should be able to breach your camp at any time and make his way out with anything you had stored here that he can afford to carry. The rules shouldn't be tweaked so "only a group of a decent size" is able to storm your "castle". This isn't wow raids.

Like Chabowski, i'd rather see things added to the game, tools and crafts that enable players to use them as they see fit and potentially use them in strange and unforeseen ways.

Good examples would be:

-makeshift barricade pieces. (can be dismantled with tools such as hatchets, crowbars, etc...)

-ability to board windows and doors of a building. (same)

-ability to add padlock and chain to existing doors, or maybe craft new ones like swinging barricade pieces. (again, can be bashed open with the right equipment and time, or simply picked)

-ability to build deadly traps to ward off intruders, from landmines, to shotgun rigged tripwires.

Extremely bad examples would be:

-land claiming. (how? why? nobody really own anything if they cannot protect it themselve)

-ability to allow/prevent people to operate the fort doors through an interface (once you gave keys to the wrong people, change locks, that's the only way)

-npc guards.

-fort claiming rules (and anything that basically advantage the attack or the defence in a gimmicky way)

Conclusion:

If i put a padlock and chain on an old transformer unit, stash "my" belongings in it and add a couple landmines around the entrance. It is my home until someone realize it's here, avoid the traps and bust it open. Then it's all gone.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Another worry,

If I can wax hypothetical for a while

. use predefined "base" areas to store vehicles and gear and go offline for the night

. others know EXACTLY where you've stored your stuff, and simply take it.

Unless you have enough of a "society" to occupy your base constantly, it's better to not be restricted in placement.

Even if your crew were online 24/7, do you think they'll want to be standing watch incase someone walks in and robs you?

At least any invaders should have to FIND your base first.

If i put a padlock and chain on an old transformer unit, stash "my" belongings in it and add a couple landmines around the entrance. It is my home until someone realize it's here, avoid the traps and bust it open. Then it's all gone

Hit the nail on the head.

For trade/medical posts, you're getting WAY ahead of yourself. It's simply not feasible.

How often do announced gatherings (for any reason) manage to occur without being attacked?

The answer is never.

[thesodesa 99]

I was never really interested in the idea of base construction, since I'm unlikely to ever build anything because i don't have enough time to invest into the game to actually achieve something on that scale.

What I actually mean when I say that I want structures is that we should have some sort of functional facilities on the map. For example I don't think anybody would be able to lift a new rotor assembly on a chopper without some lifting equipment found at the mechanic's/car shop or a construction yard. Now, to operate this equipment you would have to restore power to the area where the shop is, which is why I've been raving about the power station in Elektro.

These are the types of things I'm interested in, not actual bases.

Edited March 11, 2013 by TheSodesa