Progression System in DayZ Standalone

[joe_mcentire 2074]

Honestly, only reason I read this post is beacuse I thought it was mentioning things like growing a beard over time, getting dirtty after awhile, sleep deprivation, etc. etc.

you should just not attend threads like these, when you cannot contribute anything useful/valuable and just try to be the "official selected troll of the thread"

Seems like you are the one on the butthurt bus, trying to flame everyone that shoots down your ignorant idea. Congrats on the 400 hours, :emptycan: <--- that is my fuck can, as you can clearly see, it is quite empty.

You also mentioned people not knowing whether you have kids? Well, I'm married, have a job, and go to college, your point is? Why are you on the game so much if you have kids? I read bullshit like yours, because it is funny to see how stupid some of the suggestions are, and this ones a hum-dinger.

..and that's what you call criticism? you know what everyone was arguing almost quite reasonable until you showed up...now what does this tell you?

Edited February 24, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[BoaDrago 3]

Thanks everyone for contributing. Anyways, probably gonna stop 'spamming' replies now, read everything up until now and as far as i can see there is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do 'it' because it has never been implemented, everyone has their own opinion on how it should be done. I guess we're just gonna have to leave it up to the devs to make the right decision.

EDIT: I posted this and i didnt refresh the page so i didnt see this:

Seems like you are the one on the butthurt bus, trying to flame everyone that shoots down your ignorant idea. Congrats on the 400 hours, :emptycan: <--- that is my fuck can, as you can clearly see, it is quite empty.

You also mentioned people not knowing whether you have kids? Well, I'm married, have a job, and go to college, your point is? Why are you on the game so much if you have kids? I read bullshit like yours, because it is funny to see how stupid some of the suggestions are, and this ones a hum-dinger.

Maybe my post would be diffrent then, who knows.

Edited February 24, 2013 by BoaDrago

[Uuni 74]

When someone makes an idea, but can't take criticisms, then there is bound to be chaos when he starts a flame war.

You are starting to slip from the subject to personal insulting, both of you

Edited February 24, 2013 by Uuni

[lipemr 160]

So I guess he just has a whiny personality.

"Yeah the "player interactions" where everyone shoots on sight seems AMAZING, i think you dont play dayZ f or the last 6 months.

If a progression system is "omfg bad, no rpg, dayZ is n o rpg, hurr hurr", then what do you suggest to reduce t he shoot on sight and to make players value more thei r lives?

And yeah, dayZ IS a RPG, if you think it isnt, you dont e ven know the freaking meaning of the term."

Considering this comment, his comment about apes being able to preform tasks seemed as though everyone who thought it was a good idea had the intelligence of apes.

If it didn't, that's what it came across as.

Also, how does leveling prevent KoS?

If I leveled up for killing people, wouldn't I do it more?

It doesn't really give more to do, as all you have to do is RUN around and shoot people. Bam! You leveled up two things. It's not going to change someone's play style.

If you're a sniper bandit in the trees, you don't need to level up running. Why would you?

Same with bandits period. If you're not going to heal people anyway, why would you now? To level on an invisible system?

Your logic is flawed. If anything, it'd promote KoS. The little minigame system would require someone who ACTUALLY KNOWS WHAT THEIR DOING to fix a car or a wound.

The XP system allows any old dude to do whatever. You can still fix a car at Car Fixing level 1, but just not as fast. So it doesn't matter.

if you die, you lose all the things you learned in the past life. So people would think twice before picking fights out there.

but you probably know it and it's just trolling.

Edited February 24, 2013 by lipemr

[victusmortuus 1074]

Bunch of kids in here it seems. No beans. NO BEANS.

[Statik (DayZ) 2695]

Where do I begin?

DayZ is designed to be a realistc, post-appocolyptic mod, simulator, game, whatever. Adding in a "point system" completely destroys the game. DayZ is designed to be a "game" where everyone is equal. People like you wishing to add in "point systems", classes and the like, are really frustrating me as this will obliterate the DayZ experiece. If you want a class based game, please, do us all a favour, and go back to CoD.

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

Where do I begin?

DayZ is designed to be a realistc, post-appocolyptic mod, simulator, game, whatever. Adding in a "point system" completely destroys the game. DayZ is designed to be a "game" where everyone is equal. People like you wishing to add in "point systems", classes and the like, are really frustrating me as this will obliterate the DayZ experiece. If you want a class based game, please, do us all a favour, and go back to CoD.

Amen. Watch your back in here brother.

[lipemr 160]

Where do I begin?

DayZ is designed to be a realistc, post-appocolyptic mod, simulator, game, whatever. Adding in a "point system" completely destroys the game. DayZ is designed to be a "game" where everyone is equal. People like you wishing to add in "point systems", classes and the like, are really frustrating me as this will obliterate the DayZ experiece. If you want a class based game, please, do us all a favour, and go back to CoD.

we're not talking about 'point system', classes or anything here dude, for fucking sake, we're talking about getting practice in things you do, just like in real life, THAT'S REALISM, DAMN, YOU LEARN BY DOING THINGS.

Unrealistic is a random civillian dude who washes in shore and can change a car's engine, shoot a sniper like a recon marine and runs like a marathon runner.

did you even read the last pages?

Edited February 24, 2013 by lipemr

[BoaDrago 3]

we're not talking about 'point system', classes or anything here dude, for fucking sake, we're talking about getting practice in things you do, just like in real life, THAT'S REALISM, DAMN, YOU LEARN BY DOING THINGS.

Unrealistic is a random civillian dude who washes in shore and can change a car's engine, shoot a sniper like a recon marine and runs like a marathon runner.

did you even read the last pages?

Amen. Watch your back in here brother.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

i really would like some of you to read into these (AND hopefully not blinded by prejudice):

well i don't think this will ever be implemented - classes is something which is, i guess, most unlikely to happen. i really would like you to invite you to read the thread i posted before (*edit: as well as its successor), which tries to provide a subtle approach to the whole thing as well, i also tried to provide some sort of Gedankenexperiment back then.

these more/less represent a smoother approach of subtle skills.

[BoaDrago 3]

i really would like some of you to read into these (AND hopefully not blinded by prejudice):

these more/less represent a smoother approach of subtle skills.

I know what your hinting at but i think 'they' came in here just to ruin the perfectly normal discussion we were having.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

Unrealistic is a random civillian dude who washes in shore and can change a car's engine, shoot a sniper like a recon marine and runs like a marathon runner.

Yeah, so why don't we make the tasks like changing an engine and sniping more difficult, so not everyone can do it? I'm okay with getting better at running by running (And only VERY basic tasks like running), and to the people who say it would encourage grinding: Yes, it does that in the real world, too. It's called exercising. The points system should only apply to things that require no skill or knowledge in the real world. Running, throwing, swimming, things like that only. Only very subtle differences, and only if you remain healthy. Changing an engine should not be possible with a single mouse click just because your character has done it before.

And regarding your RPG-related posts, playing as a character in a fictional setting does not make it a role playing game. That would apply to every game, ever. There is no role to play, you're just a nameless, faceless person, and that's it.

[Uuni 74]

The points system should only apply to things that require no skill or knowledge in the real world. Running, throwing, swimming, things like that only. Only very subtle differences, and only if you remain healthy.

At that point would it really be worth the time and effort anymore to implement such a system? IMO what should make you a better runner is the knowledge how to keep yourself healthy in-game. And that is something that will be drastically harder in the SA. I don't think we need xp system on top of the health system they are planning to implement. Anything less from the perfect condition would slow you down, a good player would know how to avoid infections and treat them properly, maintain a steady body temperature through out the changing enviromental conditions, keeping yourself hydrated and nourished etc.

That would increase the skill ceiling of the game and make players who have survived longer naturally better at even the most mundane tasks. Changing an engine part when you have a raging diarrhea, your body temperature is 33 degrees, you haven't drank in two days nor eaten in a week can be a bit tricky yaknow

[BoaDrago 3]

And regarding your RPG-related posts, playing as a character in a fictional setting does not make it a role playing game. That would apply to every game, ever. There is no role to play, you're just a nameless, faceless person, and that's it.

Like Lipemr said before, YOU are the one making the character, if you're off purposely killing other people in cold blood you're a 'rutheless bandit'

if you're out there helping people you're a 'hero', if you like to stay in the shadows and just pick off random people you see quckly from the behind you're a 'sly looter'.

[Uuni 74]

Like Lipemr said before, YOU are the one making the character, if you're off purposely killing other people in cold blood you're a 'rutheless bandit'

if you're out there helping people you're a 'hero', if you like to stay in the shadows and just pick off random people you see quckly from the behind you're a 'sly looter'.

Nope. That's like distinguishing one pong paddle as 'still paddle' because it moves less than the other. They are both paddles for gods sakes, it's not a role they are playing. In dayZ you are a survivor

RPG:

"Hey, I'm mike, I'm playing as MAGE"

"Hey, I'm pete, I'm playing as KNIGHT"

DayZ

"Hey, I'm mike, I'm playing as SURVIVOR"

"Hey, I'm pete, I'm playing as SURVIVOR"

Spot the difference

Edited February 24, 2013 by Uuni

[lipemr 160]

Yeah, so why don't we make the tasks like changing an engine and sniping more difficult, so not everyone can do it? I'm okay with getting better at running by running (And only VERY basic tasks like running), and to the people who say it would encourage grinding: Yes, it does that in the real world, too. It's called exercising. The points system should only apply to things that require no skill or knowledge in the real world. Running, throwing, swimming, things like that only. Only very subtle differences, and only if you remain healthy. Changing an engine should not be possible with a single mouse click just because your character has done it before.

And regarding your RPG-related posts, playing as a character in a fictional setting does not make it a role playing game. That would apply to every game, ever. There is no role to play, you're just a nameless, faceless person, and that's it.

but that's the point dude, at the start you're pretty bad at all things, i mean, when using a bandage you can get an infecton, or even dont stop the bleeding.

When fixing a car's engine, you should take like 10 minutes, having a chance of making the car run slower when repaired, or even explode the car when repairing, knocking the player out, you could find a schematics on industrial buildings, that would be added to toolbelt and would reduce the chance of blowing the car, for example, cause you would learn the basics of what you cant do while repairing it.

My point isnt making the game easier, actually i want it to be exactly the opposite.

Without mention that noob players wouldnt be good at sniping nor killing people, and when they get better on it, i dont think they'll risk picking a fight knowing that they can die and lose all the progress they made.

Edited February 24, 2013 by lipemr

[lipemr 160]

Nope. That's like distinguishing one pong paddle as 'still paddle' because it moves less than the other. They are both paddles for gods sakes, it's not a role they are playing. In dayZ you are a survivor

RPG:

"Hey, I'm mike, I'm playing as MAGE"

"Hey, I'm pete, I'm playing as KNIGHT"

DayZ

"Hey, I'm mike, I'm playing as SURVIVOR"

"Hey, I'm pete, I'm playing as SURVIVOR"

Spot the difference

DayZ

"Hey, I'm mike, I'm playing as BANDIT, sniper"

"Hey, I'm pete, I'm playing as HERO, medic"

"hey, i'm josh, i'm playing as a SURVIVOR, no specialization"

there's no difference dude, you're just too narrow minded to admit it cause all games that people "call" RPG have these cliches of mage, warrior, whatever.

Go learn about role playing, for god's sake.

Edited February 24, 2013 by lipemr

[BoaDrago 3]

Nope. That's like distinguishing one pong paddle as 'still paddle' because it moves less than the other. They are both paddles for gods sakes, it's not a role they are playing. In dayZ you are a survivor

RPG:

"Hey, I'm mike, I'm playing as MAGE"

"Hey, I'm pete, I'm playing as KNIGHT"

DayZ

"Hey, I'm mike, I'm playing as SURVIVOR"

"Hey, I'm pete, I'm playing as BANDIT"

"Nice to meet you pete, what do you say we go to wait wha..BANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANG"

Spot the difference

Made a edit in your post, spot the diffrence ;D

Edited February 24, 2013 by BoaDrago

[Uuni 74]

Made a edit in your post, spot the diffrence ;D

The problem is that Survivor and Bandit are exactly the same. You people seem to have a hard time grasping the concept of role playing games so let me try a different approach.

Person A is playing as a bandit

Player B is playing as a bandit

Player A moves more than player B, by your logic player A is now a move-bandit instead of regular bandit because he moves more. His role is now move bandit

This is not how RPGs work

In an RPG you can't swap your role to another on the fly. In dayZ you can swap from bandit to hero by changing your playstyle. You can't swap from a mage into a knight in an RPG. That's why it's an RPG. You pick a role and stick to it because that's a core mechanic in the game. Heroes and bandits are just a way to call different playstyles, kinda like different kinds of mages in a game. This mage is arcane, this mage is elementalist, yet they are both mages because that's their chosen role. They are not knights and they can't swap to being knight by changing playstyle. They will have to create a new character to play knight. That's the core thing in western RPG genre and that's why they are called Role Playing Games

there's no difference dude, you're just too narrow minded to admit it cause all games that people "call" RPG have these cliches of mage, warrior, whatever.

Go learn about role playing, for god's sake.

No need to turn into personal insults when you run out of arguments. I do not limit RPGs to fantasy at all. If you chose to play as medic or engineer at the start when you kick up your character in dayZ and you'd have to make a new character to play the other role, then it would be an RPG

Edited February 24, 2013 by Uuni

[joe_mcentire 2074]

ahh kinda frustrating: page 5 and still this thread has not evolved from basic arguing about what is RPG and what not.

Maybe we can agree on something that it does not matter to dayz how a classical RPG should behave and how it shouldn't.

• I for one don't appreciate classes or something similar to this.
  

• I would like some basic microskills that can evolve steadily by doing certain tasks, teamwork may or may not help to improve faster or anyway. I could think of chances that increase or decrease depending on your skills in the background. Increase or decrease time efforts for certain tasks or yield/profit made out of certain tasks. This would depict RL in a manner of getting experienced in certain tasks. Also chances only applied on where they make sense. (e.g. no better chances not to get sick when drinking spoiled water, no lower chances that weapon jams..)
  

• Skills mustn't affect combat strength in a direct sense, so you don't become an überenemy to everyone else.
  
• Skills of course lost when killed.
  
• Grinding of skills could be used at the cost of other skills
  
• Some skills need constant attention as they tend to decrease back to a certain stage when not used.
  
• Wounds/infections could permanently damage some skills or set them back.
  
• no obvious visuals
  

and this is my Gedankenexperiment:

Ok for the sake of authenticity, a little Gedankenexperiment:

You are out there and come along a vehicle which would come in handy you know. Unfortunately the vehicle is in very bad condition, but as you have no idea what is wrong with it you'll have to move on leaving this little godsend back. Now depending on what follows you'll must probably think to yourself: "DAMMIT what if i somehow could have repaired it! If it were just a bagatelle to do?" Every time you get to a vehicle you would then maybe try to fix it as good as you can.

I agree on terms that it could be somehow based on a random distribution, as in real, you do not always gain or learn something form what you do. So let's continue...

Eventually you'll find another vehicle. This time around you try to find the problem. And you learn something. You learn..oh when this and that is not connected the engine wouldn't even start. Ok unfortunatly the vehicle has an engine damage XD.

You are pretty pissed but can't moan and move on again. The third time again you try your best, but quite rapidly you'll find out...hm again this seems to have the same damage, therefor you can't learn anything new from this one....

You see were i want to go with that.

What i was reflecting about now is this additional scenario. where you meet someone, also a loner and you team up with him. it seems you have a streak of luck and the both of you find another vehicle. and it seems, that the one with you seems to know a little bit more than you, so you learn quite something from him.

So what if the more (diverse) knowledge packed into one action would lead to a higher chance to learn something new, quasi the more the merrier! Would this bring yourself to value another zeds char-life more?!

Eventually you go apart and continue your journey, when you finally meet a team of several players and they seem kind of hostile to you. But then you get a chance to start negotiating, "hey guys hear me out, i have some knowledge in repairing vehicles, i can be of value to you. How much of value we don't now, because i now some but truly not much. So what are you gaining or losing?"

What if the system would be more dynamic, as some things eventually fade away (especially those on physical base; but even on a mental level, by saying forgetting certain coherences). For some abilities you have to lay hands upon yourself continuously.

And this is also something i want to remention:

Now let's say there is some sort of randomness behind this whole system, so there is no ladder which says first skill A, then skill B is unlocked.

Let's just say, you get a little note like "a tiny step to better comprehend nature", therefore you'll notice "oh ok.. there's something going on", but that's just my single hint I get. i'll have to check out by myself what mircoskill i've just gained. Meaning i'll have to act more and more again with nature if i'm eager to find out which capability is lurking inside me.

This all could add up to something not to hard easy* to exploit as well as authentic. And after all! We were always speaking about losing EVERYTHING by dying. This fact alone is, for me, a very good protection to hinder exploiting / grinding to a certain extend.

*edited XD

Edited February 24, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[lipemr 160]

The problem is that Survivor and Bandit are exactly the same. You people seem to have a hard time grasping the concept of role playing games so let me try a different approach.

Person A is playing as a bandit

Player B is playing as a bandit

Player A moves more than player B, by your logic player A is now a move-bandit instead of regular bandit because he moves more. His role is now move bandit

This is not how RPGs work

In an RPG you can't swap your role to another on the fly. In dayZ you can swap from bandit to hero by changing your playstyle. You can't swap from a mage into a knight in an RPG. That's why it's an RPG. You pick a role and stick to it because that's a core mechanic in the game. Heroes and bandits are just a way to call different playstyles, kinda like different kinds of mages in a game. This mage is arcane, this mage is elementalist, yet they are both mages because that's their chosen role. They are not knights and they can't swap to being knight by changing playstyle. They will have to create a new character to play knight. That's the core thing in western RPG genre and that's why they are called Role Playing Games

No need to turn into personal insults when you run out of arguments. I do not limit RPGs to fantasy at all. If you chose to play as medic or engineer at the start when you kick up your character in dayZ and you'd have to make a new character to play the other role, then it would be an RPG

i dont see where the insult is, the fact is that a RPG isnt a game that have classes and that's it, the concept goes much further than that.

If you cant think of a RPG outside of the "classes, leveling, atributes" thing, it's not my fault, you just need to learn about the concept.

In the original RPG games, there's nothing you cant do if there's no rule prohibiting it, the master creates the rules, the players obey it and play like it's supposed to.

In dayZ there's no classes, there's no fixed story, you make your own, there's no rule on the RPG table, that's what makes the game what it is. There you can play the role you want, there's no rule that tells you that you cant.

Open your mind a bit, all i see in your posts is "nurr getting better by doing thing is wronk cuz dayZ is no RPG, and RPG is bad, burr".

Edited February 24, 2013 by lipemr

[Uuni 74]

-snip-

Good job re-railing the conversation. It's easy to get lost out there.

I wouldn't mind microskills but I feel that they aren't that much of a selling point for most people. I feel that most people would apprechiate as feature-rich experience as possible. Spraying clan tags to buildings & trees, doing proper traps, allowing us to build barricades, customize vehicles mad-max style etc.

Who knows what rocket has in store for us :)

i dont see where the insult is

I think it's riiiight about there:

you're just too narrow minded

you just need to learn about

Yeah, right. I think we're done here

Edited February 24, 2013 by Uuni

[lipemr 160]

Good job re-railing the conversation. It's easy to get lost out there.

I wouldn't mind microskills but I feel that they aren't that much of a selling point for most people. I feel that most people would apprechiate as feature-rich experience as possible. Spraying clan tags to buildings & trees, doing proper traps, allowing us to build barricades, customize vehicles mad-max style etc.

Who knows what rocket has in store for us :)

I think it's riiiight about there:

Yeah, right. I think we're done here

what the fuck? seriously?

You just ignores all my arguments, says that i have none and think i'm insulting you when i tell you're narrow minded? that you need to learn the concept again?

seriously, fuck this thread, there's no way of discussing things like an adult here. good luck for people that will stick to the discussion.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

I think that the "minigame" approach, if done correctly, would be a lot more engaging than using "skills" to, say, replace an engine. It may be hard to implement, but that's no reason not to do it. DayZ is a really innovative game and I think that if it's possible, it should be added. I don't have anything against skills systems in general, but I really don't think DayZ is the game that needs it.

By the way, Uuni, is run speed going to be dependent on health in the standalone? If so, then I guess it would negate the need for the kind of microskills I mentioned, especially if it affects all physical tasks.

[Uuni 74]

By the way, Uuni, is run speed going to be dependent on health in the standalone? If so, then I guess it would negate the need for the kind of microskills I mentioned, especially if it affects all physical tasks.

No info yet unfortunately. Can't wait for the next weeks devblog for more goodies :rolleyes: