Weapon damage, are they ever going to improve it?

[mitor 176]

Hello,

I am a bit confused. The last patch is great. It improves the game a lot, and I can't even understand why people(People in this forum, which are supposed to be Dayz fans) complain about it.

Anyway, we can say the last patches have fixed lots of bugs and added/improved lots of things that needed to be added/improved.

Well, what I cannot understand is that we are still playing a game that is supposed to emulate a real environment with toy guns.

First of all, pistols. No comment. Is it really that hard to change the value of damage these weapons do? I don't think so. Then why don't they increase it?

Then, the MP5. Same as pistols.

Shotguns. Well, again, No comment.

I would also increase the damage the assault rifles do.

[janus0104 212]

Huh? Apart from maybe makarov/m1911, what are you talking about? Most guns in the game kill anything within 3 body hits..?

[Sercan (DayZ) 4]

Ye it would be nice to have the weapons do some serious damage especially the lower tier stuff.. I remember sneaking up on a sniper, emptying everything I had in the G17 onto him and he turns around and still kills me. The dude may have been hacking but this was a while back before hacking was as rampant. Another example, a dude has a pistol, empties the whole thing on my character and still I survive and take him out like it's nothing =S

Only downside is the amount of KoS in this game already would just get even more annoying. At least now you have a chance to survive some turds but 1 hit kills would be QQx100. If they fix that, then I'm all for weapons (especially lower-tire) doing more damage.

Also, when are they going to add wind compensation for snipers? Fed up of people thinking they are so awesome sat up in some hill pointing and clicking. Real life sniping is not that easy!

Random Idea:

What would be cool is if they made player's characters scream if the agony / pain was too much. Although I'm not sure if the adrenaline would cancel out the pain?

[intensity (DayZ) 312]

I think DayZ uses the damage base from the latest Arma II beta patches. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

And no, the latest patch is not that great. You've got an estranged attitude saying that people who complain about it are supposed to be DayZ fans.

I don't play DayZ anymore but I tried it to see, and I was like dafuq. To me it really shows that Rocket no longer decides what goes in DayZ and what direction it goes. To me, it lost some gameplay value.

[mitor 176]

Huh? Apart from maybe makarov/m1911, what are you talking about? Most guns in the game kill anything within 3 body hits..?

No, they don't. Even the assault rifles apart from the AKM need four (And the M4 CCO SD even more) body hits to kill. And pistols and MP5 need about 7-8.

[mitor 176]

I think DayZ uses the damage base from the latest Arma II beta patches. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

And no, the latest patch is not that great. You've got an estranged attitude saying that people who complain about it are supposed to be DayZ fans.

I don't play DayZ anymore but I tried it to see, and I was like dafuq. To me it really shows that Rocket no longer decides what goes in DayZ and what direction it goes. To me, it lost some gameplay value.

Well, I like the patch. Anyway this thread is not to talk about the latest patch.

So the Dayz devs don't decide weapon damage?

[estx1992 32]

I'm sure the Standalone will correct a lot of this.

If I'm not mistaken they got a dev kit for Arma III and were allowed to take things from Arma III and implement them in the SA.

[intensity (DayZ) 312]

The gap between the damage values is to make rifles seem like they are more useful. Even though Arma is a realistic game it is very difficult to create a good gunplay model without sacrificing a lot of the gameplay.

[plrsniper 87]

Hello,

I am a bit confused. The last patch is great. It improves the game a lot, and I can't even understand why people(People in this forum, which are supposed to be Dayz fans) complain about it.

Anyway, we can say the last patches have fixed lots of bugs and added/improved lots of things that needed to be added/improved.

Yes, the last patch is great. It fixes some things and adds new great stuff. But it does come with a few other bugs and it doesn't make the survival aspects of the game any harder which is a downer.

Well, what I cannot understand is that we are still playing a game that is supposed to emulate a real environment with toy guns.

It's supposed to emulate a fictitious zombie apocalypse aftermath. Most guns in DayZ (ArmA II) are pretty accurate to their real counterparts.

First of all, pistols. No comment. Is it really that hard to change the value of damage these weapons do? I don't think so. Then why don't they increase it?

I agree, pistols are a bit on the weak end and could do with a damage upgrade.

A player has 12,000 HP when at full health.

As it is now, pistols do either 889 or 1389 damage. (Revolver and M1911 being the only two that does the latter 1389 damage)

As such it requires either 14 shots (two Makarov mags or one full G17/M9 mag) or 9 shots (one full mag and then another 2-3 shots with the M1911 and revolver) to kill a player with body shots.

In reality you would incapacitate a human (killing, passing out, combat ineffective) with anything from 1 to 5 shots depending on where at the body you hit him.

Solution so far, only try to land headshots with any sidearm. Anything else is a waste of time, ammo and your own health.

I am sure DayZ SA will deal with this issue though so i have nothing to complain about.

Then, the MP5. Same as pistols.

Well, in reality any SMG will have about the same stopping power as a pistol. The main difference is their accuracy and magazine capacity.

But due to the pistols low damage and thus the SMG's low damage they are pretty useless. It's not so much the SMG's that are bad but the pistol damages that they are based on that are.

Solution, don't pick them up for now if you have any other weapon.

Once again, the SA will most likely sort this out one way or the other.

Shotguns. Well, again, No comment

Why not? All shotguns deal the same damage with slugs. (4500)

That's three shots to the body and actually, as far as i am concerned, is a big improvement from the earlier 8000 damage they did making them a 2 shot kill weapon. The winchester was a BEAST in urban environments and you could find one anywhere.

That said, even with the extra added shot required i still rape face with them and people rage big time when i do.

I would also increase the damage the assault rifles do.

That is a very broad statement... Assault rifles include the FN-FAL which does 8000 damage. A single shot can knock you unconscious and leave you bleeding out in a minute.

And even though the M14 AIM is classed as a sniper rifle i use it as an alternative to the FN-FAL. I use it as an assault rifle and it too kicks major ass with it's 8000 damage.

Then we have the discrepancy between the AK variants (2722) vs the M4/M16 variants (3555) which shouldn't even be there considering the two are equally deadly. To that point i can agree, bring up the damage of the AK variants.

That said, it takes 4 body shots with the M4/M16 to kill a player but considering the player will have no more than 1335 blood remaining after three hits he is as good as dead after those three anyways.

And assault rifles are generally not used at range anyways, when you open fire you tend to hit more often than not with them and their high rate of fire and magazine capacity makes that extra bullet moot.

Next comes the AKM, AKS and the SA-58 which does 4500 damage. A player will be dead in three shots and with two he will be at 3000 blood, already in the danger zone from passing out and most likely bleeding like a waterfall.

Finally we have the Lee Enfield, most people think it's a useless weapon but in reality it's a 2 shot killer (6722) and even though it has a long delay between shots and a pretty bad iron sight it's one of my personal favorites early on as most people tend to switch from that to one of the automatic weapons. After which point i pop them in the face with the Enfield they left behind.

So in conclusion, most weapons are fine in DayZ aside from the pistols and the AK variants. I don't see how you can complain about the others really.

[mitor 176]

Well X0TCadde,

considering you almost agree with all I said above apart from shotguns... I think you see how I complain about weapons in general.

The main problem about shotguns is that they should incapacitate a player in one shot when shot close to the victim. Their firing rate makes them almost useless, as you don't kill in two shots, and remember the player can move and run even if you shoot him.

The pellets seem to deal more damage in close quarters but IDK how they exactly work.

And well, yeah, I would make all assault rifles except snipers deal more damage. Its my opinion, though.

[-Gews- 7443]

I think DayZ uses the damage base from the latest Arma II beta patches. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Yup, but players have about twice as much health as they do in ArmA2.

[intensity (DayZ) 312]

Well, in reality any SMG will have about the same stopping power as a pistol. The main difference is their accuracy and magazine capacity.

But due to the pistols low damage and thus the SMG's low damage they are pretty useless. It's not so much the SMG's that are bad but the pistol damages that they are based on that are.

Not entirely true. Some SMGs have insane rates of fire, as well as come with their own calibers 5.7x28mm but that might already be used by some pistols I'm not sure.

Why not? All shotguns deal the same damage with slugs. (4500)

That's three shots to the body and actually, as far as i am concerned, is a big improvement from the earlier 8000 damage they did making them a 2 shot kill weapon. The winchester was a BEAST in urban environments and you could find one anywhere.

That said, even with the extra added shot required i still rape face with them and people rage big time when i do.

Why not? All shotguns deal the same damage with slugs. (4500)

That's three shots to the body and actually, as far as i am concerned, is a big improvement from the earlier 8000 damage they did making them a 2 shot kill weapon. The winchester was a BEAST in urban environments and you could find one anywhere.

That said, even with the extra added shot required i still rape face with them and people rage big time when i do.

People should die if hit with a pellet shotty at close range for realism win. Slugs tear a hole in the human body at better ranges but become useless at long range because of accuracy issues. To me, shotguns are underpowered.

The Winchester 1866 could be loaded with the .50-110 Express rounds which are very powerful and can tear you a new one. On a side note Winchester is not a shotgun, it's a rifle. It even says it in the name and I always wondered who made it this way in Arma.

That is a very broad statement... Assault rifles include the FN-FAL which does 8000 damage. A single shot can knock you unconscious and leave you bleeding out in a minute.

And even though the M14 AIM is classed as a sniper rifle i use it as an alternative to the FN-FAL. I use it as an assault rifle and it too kicks major ass with it's 8000 damage.

Then we have the discrepancy between the AK variants (2722) vs the M4/M16 variants (3555) which shouldn't even be there considering the two are equally deadly. To that point i can agree, bring up the damage of the AK variants.

That said, it takes 4 body shots with the M4/M16 to kill a player but considering the player will have no more than 1335 blood remaining after three hits he is as good as dead after those three anyways.

And assault rifles are generally not used at range anyways, when you open fire you tend to hit more often than not with them and their high rate of fire and magazine capacity makes that extra bullet moot.

Next comes the AKM, AKS and the SA-58 which does 4500 damage. A player will be dead in three shots and with two he will be at 3000 blood, already in the danger zone from passing out and most likely bleeding like a waterfall.

Finally we have the Lee Enfield, most people think it's a useless weapon but in reality it's a 2 shot killer (6722) and even though it has a long delay between shots and a pretty bad iron sight it's one of my personal favorites early on as most people tend to switch from that to one of the automatic weapons. After which point i pop them in the face with the Enfield they left behind.

So in conclusion, most weapons are fine in DayZ aside from the pistols and the AK variants. I don't see how you can complain about the others really.

The 5.39 rounds are IMO very comparable to 5.56.

However the AKM uses 7.62 which are considerably more powerful, actually IMO they should do around 6000 damage. The difference between 7.62x39 (AKM) and 7.62(M14) is the AKM with have an effective range of around 250 meters.

M14 AIM is not a sniper rifle it's just an M14 with a red dot sight. No idea why it's a considered a sniper rifle

Lee Enfield aka "zombie magnet" uses 7.7x56mm which should do 8000 damage at the least. I just don't use it because it's suicidal.

When push come to shove though, loads of these issues are actually "features" created to balance the game.

[Jonsse 69]

Agreed, Pistols and SMG's are crossly under powered. They should have stopping power closer to the smaller caliber assault rifles, but with significantly lower range, lower rate of fire and lower accuracy. Right now anyone with a Pistol is only slightly more of a threat than someone with an axe. All of these values come from Arma 2 where gameplay elements are vastly different to what Dayz hopes to achieve. It's reasonable to assume that they will be more streamlined in the Standalone.

The Winchester 1866 could be loaded with the .50-110 Express rounds which are very powerful and can tear you a new one. On a side note Winchester is not a shotgun, it's a rifle. It even says it in the name and I always wondered who made it this way in Arma.

The Winchester was specially coded for DayZ, that's why it uses a shotgun shell as ammo. It's a remodel of a shotgun from Arma2.

[flyingspatula 6]

Pistols definitely need to be back how they were before they nerfed them way back. M1911 and Revolver did do way too much damage against zombies back when it was more powerful, but it really shouldn't require 5-6 aimed shots in the chest to kill someone who has no body armor at all. Low tier weapons aside from Lee Enfield could probably use a slight to moderate damage increase as well since shotgun slugs are horrible and Winchester loses accuracy after 50 meters like there's a 10 pound weight attached to each bullet. Pellets are still pretty awesome though!

[TacticalN29 89]

I think DayZ uses the damage base from the latest Arma II beta patches. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

And no, the latest patch is not that great. You've got an estranged attitude saying that people who complain about it are supposed to be DayZ fans.

I don't play DayZ anymore but I tried it to see, and I was like dafuq. To me it really shows that Rocket no longer decides what goes in DayZ and what direction it goes. To me, it lost some gameplay value.

To my understanding Rocket really has nothing to do with developing the mod. I believe it is developed by the community mostly. However the standalone will be much better than the mod.

[Morotstomten 34]

i gave you my beans cause of your avatar

[plrsniper 87]

Well X0TCadde,

considering you almost agree with all I said above apart from shotguns... I think you see how I complain about weapons in general.

True, i do agree with some points you made, not all but some. I can see how you think the pistols and SMG's are weak.

And i can understand how you would dislike the AK variants as they take 5 shots to kill a target. That fifth extra shot can make all the difference in a gunfight.

The main problem about shotguns is that they should incapacitate a player in one shot when shot close to the victim. Their firing rate makes them almost useless, as you don't kill in two shots, and remember the player can move and run even if you shoot him.

If you are hit by a slug at 5 meters vs 50 meters make little difference. A slug is a solid lead bullet, it will leave a big hole in your body regardless of the range within 50 meters.

I do agree that, realistically, a shotgun shooting slugs should incapacitate/kill it's victim in one shot but the problem is you then have to adjust all assault rifles to be more powerful as well. Most people wouldn't stand a chance being hit by anything and as such would not have a chance to respond to most combat situations.

Which in turn would force more people to go look for a sniper/hunting rifle to do ranged fighting. Which in turn would make DayZ even more of a sniper fest than it currently is.

The pellets seem to deal more damage in close quarters but IDK how they exactly work.

And well, yeah, I would make all assault rifles except snipers deal more damage. Its my opinion, though.

I don't know how pellets work either but i would assume it's 6-9 "bullets" with a spreading pattern, each dealing 2000 damage.

So at close range you could potentially deal the full 12000 damage but like i said i don't really know how it's coded and handled.

In my experience, pellets doesn't do any noticeable damage.

Not entirely true. Some SMGs have insane rates of fire, as well as come with their own calibers 5.7x28mm but that might already be used by some pistols I'm not sure.

Yes, SMGs tend to have full automatic modes as well and are more stable platforms than pistols IRL. They can also offer higher velocities but they still tend to share the exact same rounds that pistols use and that includes the bullet weight and caliber. And since their velocities may only be slightly higher they do about the same amount of damage per impact.

On that line it makes little to no difference in DayZ (ArmA II) as players can unload their pistols very rapidly by spamming their mouse button faster. The key difference between the weapons is their size and thus perceived threat.

SMG or Sub Machine Gun (Sub meaning it fires sub sonic rounds) is just a developed term for what once was referred to as a Machine Pistol. The key word here being "pistol".

As for calibers, you have the .40 (10.16mm), .44 (11.176mm) and .50 (12.7mm) caliber pistols which have considerably higher stopping power than the 5.7mm SMGs. (EDIT: They are actually PDWs, Personal Defense Weapons)

And arguably the 9mm parabellum (the most common pistol/SMG round of all time) has more stopping power than the 5.7x28 round.

The main selling point of the 5.7x28 is that it's easier to feed and is smaller thus allowing a higher magazine capacity. (50 rounds in the P90 for example)

People should die if hit with a pellet shotty at close range for realism win. Slugs tear a hole in the human body at better ranges but become useless at long range because of accuracy issues. To me, shotguns are underpowered.

Pellets on humans are a shock and awe solution, it's not immediately fatal but the shear shock you get from all those pellets penetrating your skin and tissue will make you pass out. To that extent i agree that pellets are not what they should be. Being hit should immediately knock you unconscious for some time.

But as you later state, it's a balance thing. If shotguns where better than most assault rifles the assault rifles would need to be buffed and then... Well you know by now, game balance is a difficult thing.

The Winchester 1866 could be loaded with the .50-110 Express rounds which are very powerful and can tear you a new one. On a side note Winchester is not a shotgun, it's a rifle. It even says it in the name and I always wondered who made it this way in Arma.

Yes, i don't consider it a real weapon but a placeholder for whatever real shotgun it's supposed to be based on. It is still a lethal weapon even with the recent damage nerf and i can pop people at 100 meters with it no problem.

The only issue i have with the other shotguns is their load capacity and model size when aiming down sight.

The 5.39 rounds are IMO very comparable to 5.56.

However the AKM uses 7.62 which are considerably more powerful, actually IMO they should do around 6000 damage. The difference between 7.62x39 (AKM) and 7.62(M14) is the AKM with have an effective range of around 250 meters.

M14 AIM is not a sniper rifle it's just an M14 with a red dot sight. No idea why it's a considered a sniper rifle

Lee Enfield aka "zombie magnet" uses 7.7x56mm which should do 8000 damage at the least. I just don't use it because it's suicidal.

When push come to shove though, loads of these issues are actually "features" created to balance the game.

Yes, we are all aware of the power that the 7.62 delivers. It's about 4 times as powerful as the 5.56. But in the end, what you are shooting at in DayZ is human flesh. In that regard, the 7.62 vs 5.56 becomes a closer match.

The reason you would want to use the 7.62 in real life is so you can penetrate brick walls and light plating easier.

Only pure bred sniper rifles are sniper rifles in my book but the game classifies the M14 AIM as a sniper rifle and that's what i was talking about.

It's a semi automatic rifle plain and simple and i use it as an assault rifle.

The Lee Enfield is spot on IMHO, if it did 8000 damage it wouldn't make much difference anyways. And yes, it's a zombie magnet and that's a good thing. Separates the noobs from the experienced when fighting in cities.

It's all about game balance in the end as you say and the game would be borderline dull if everything was super realistic.

Edited February 10, 2013 by X0TCadde

[mitor 176]

Well, so Dayz devs don't decide about the weapon damage... That makes me be happier. So we can hope Standalone weapons to be more realistic...Cool.

[Wargunner 55]

I'd be happy If I could disable a player with one well placed shot to the upper body with any ak or m4 variant, providing they don't have body armour.

a few shots to the body with a pistol to put them out would be great too.

[TacticalN29 89]

Well, so Dayz devs don't decide about the weapon damage... That makes me be happier. So we can hope Standalone weapons to be more realistic...Cool.

To my understanding it's something like that.

I don't know how pellets work either but i would assume it's 6-9 "bullets" with a spreading pattern, each dealing 2000 damage.

So at close range you could potentially deal the full 12000 damage but like i said i don't really know how it's coded and handled.

Well the it literally is pellets (not bullets) that spread and yes they can kill you. As for the 5.7x28. It's only used in two firearms: the FN Five Seven and the FN P90. The Five Seven was designed to pierce metal and body armor. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Many_bullets.jpg Starting on the left is 9mm parabellum, then 40S&W, then .45ACP, then 5.7x28. So it is definitely a larger round than 9mm. It is 5.7x28mm. The NATO rifle cartridge is 5.56x45mm. Also SMG does not mean it fires subsonic rounds. Anything can fire subsonic rounds. SMG basically means a select fire rifle with a very short barrel. Such as the MP5, Kriss Vector SMG, UMP45, etc.

Edited February 10, 2013 by TacticalN29

[plrsniper 87]

Don't confuse size with stopping power.

[TacticalN29 89]

Don't confuse size with stopping power.

This is true. But I've never heard anyone else say that 9mm has more stopping power than 5.7x28. Although I'm sure a JHP 9mm would.

[Heiduk 265]

Yup, but players have about twice as much health as they do in ArmA2.

Exactly, the problem isn't so much a weapon nerf as a health buff. Now sit back and imagine all of the crying if players were reduced to having the same amount of health as Zeds, like they should.

[Udak 104]

XOT, you had me RIGHT up until you said SMG meant they fired subsonic rounds, then I stopped.

As a sidenote, "WEAPON DAMAGE WEAPON IMPROVE" is one of the best tags I've seen so far. Great Job, OP!

Edited February 10, 2013 by Udak

[mitor 176]

Exactly, the problem isn't so much a weapon nerf as a health buff. Now sit back and imagine all of the crying if players were reduced to having the same amount of health as Zeds, like they should.

Hahahahaha, I would like to see that. We can still dream...