Hardcore Action Good for Longevity?

[Bonham (DayZ) 3]

I have seen this in several of my favorite games. A game has great appeal, but loses traction due to the absolute brutality for newbs. I feel that this game is headed down the same road.

This game is hardcore. I've been playing for a couple of weeks and have spent hours running from point A to point B only to be gunned down on sight by veteran players. There are certain areas with high concentration of players that newbs literally start out right next to. I like the statement that this makes. I like the tension it creates. I learn something new each time I'm killed (mainly shoot on sight). Though, I'm attracted to this brutality, I don't feel that it is going to be condusive to any sort of long lasting game. Not saying this game won't be out for a while. I'm just saying, for it to have any momentum for progression, some things should probably be tweaked.

Here are some suggestions I see:

1. Create more opportunity for higher geared players to compete against each other:

• Create events that take place on the world map that are catalysts for higher geared player's involvement.
  
• Create strongholds for players to protect, that spawn loot and also offer storage. In this way, higher geared characters can seige each other. This could create a more complex system of squads/clans that form to protect these strongholds 24/7.
  
• Make a wider range of loot. Right now, it seems once a character gets top gear, the only thing to do is run around and grief people. Again, I don't feel like that adds enough depth for a long lasting game.
  

2. Improve the AI:

• There should be a reason to kill zombies (skins unlocked for zombie kills or something/better loot)
  
• Make the AI more complex and consistent.
  

3. Make it easier to group up:

• There should be in game systems that streamline the grouping process.
  

4. Increase rewards for player cooperation:

• Most games I've seen, customization is a great way to push players towards a particular behavior. Perhaps a wider range of skins for the good guys? Allow players to add a red cross symbol to their packs etc.. etc..
  

I could go on and on. This is just a quick observation from a player that has played similar games to this.

[Very Ape 748]

Things like side chat, which make grouping up easier, tend to kill the game for me.

I like the mixed feelings of relief, panic, fear and excitement upon seeing a fellow survivor. You don't know if he's friendly, and you're going to risk a lot getting close, but it's usually always worth it. It's the desperate search for companionship that makes me love this.

For weeks now I've been scouring my server for a player I met once, but unfortunately lost to the cold clutches of death. It's really an adventure.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Very Ape

[plrsniper 87]

My responses are marked in green in the quote...

I have seen this in several of my favorite games. A game has great appeal, but loses traction due to the absolute brutality for newbs. I feel that this game is headed down the same road.

I have seen this in several of my favorite games. A game has great appeal, but loses traction due to how little challenge there is for the established players. I feel this game stays true to it's challenging nature.

This game is hardcore. I've been playing for a couple of weeks and have spent hours running from point A to point B only to be gunned down on sight by veteran players.

I was playing for about a week six months ago but couldn't get my friends onboard so i put it aside. I have now played for 2 weeks and i feel very confident in my ability to avoid harm but not so confident in my level of patience with scanning for threats. That doesn't make me tear my hair out when i get gunned down. It's just a slight annoyance knowing i now have to look for everything i want again.

When i have found some really rare stuff i tend to slow down and be a lot more careful. I know i can do it as long as i remain patient. That is what kills most noob players, they don't take the time to observe and learn and keep repeating the same mistakes not knowing what their mistakes where in the first place.

There are certain areas with high concentration of players that newbs literally start out right next to.

Head north! (Or rather, leave the coast and head inlands since it's possible to spawn on the east coast)

You new in this game? Here are your first baby steps:

• See a big city? DON'T GO THERE! (Unless you want to learn how to die really quickly)
  
• Hear gunfire? DON'T GO THERE! (You will most likely be shot)
  
• See another player? Does he have a gun? TRY TO RUN AWAY FROM HIM, zig zag a lot and just head far out into the woods. Don't stop until you are absolutely sure he gave up the chase.
  
• So you survived the first 20 minutes after you spawned... GREAT! Now you need to get some food and drink. Stay inlands, keep on the lookout for buildings. Stay within 50 meters of the roads you find and you will eventually reach a town. If that town is at the coast turn back... Look for houses that have windows with indoors. Now crawl (YES, CRAWL) forwards and avoid zombie contact. Get into the building and grab food and drinks. (Don't eat/drink until your food and water are red and blinking)
  
• Can't find any food or drinks? Your only option is to KEEP ON LOOKING!
  
• Been spotted by a zombie? Whatever you do, don't go into a house! If you know the building has two entrances then run straight through it, the zombies will stop inside the house. Keep running until you lose them. You can lose them by going through bushes and hiding in bushes. (unless they saw you enter that bush)
  NEVER stop running when you have zombies after you, if they hit you then you may start bleeding, be knocked unconscious or even worse, break a leg.
  
• Found a hatchet? You are now practically impervious to zombies. (with some practice and skill)
  Right click your hatchet in your toolbelt and remove it from the toolbelt, you can now use it as a weapon that kills zombies with one blow as long as they are within 1 meter from you.
  Don't get mad if you die the first couple of times, once you get good with the hatchet zombies will not pose any real threat anymore.
  
• Have a pistol/rifle/shotgun? Don't kill zombies with it, all you will accomplish is running out of ammo, getting roflstomped by zombies and alerting every player in the vicinity of your location.
  For an experienced player, hearing gunshots means someone is killing another player (And as such is not a friendly player) or is just plain stupid / bad for shooting zombies and should be taught a lesson.
  Your pistol/rifle/shotgun is best kept for situations where you have no other option but to shoot your way out of a bad situation or killing another player
  
• NO! Your pistol will not rapid fire another player to death... This is not CoD or BF3. If you have time to do so then MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE you land a headshot on a player if you intend to kill him with a pistol.
  
• Found an AK? Good! But be reminded that it still takes 5 body shots to kill another player and only one head shot. Also, due to latency issues and server lag. Emptying a clip into another player doesn't automatically mean he dies right away. He may still have time to fire back at you before he dies and that is generally not good for you. Always (if possible) stay behind cover when fighting another player.
  
• See another player? You have lots of good gear, a ghillie suit and have a perfect shot? That doesn't mean you will survive after you kill that player. There may be other players in the area, he might have friends coming behind him. Always scan the area before you make a kill.
  
• You just killed a player? Good for you! Does this mean you can now run up to his corpse and loot him? NO! Make sure you don't have other players in the region that will come and investigate.
  Also make sure you deal with the zombie horde you just alerted... Then carefully make your way towards the corpse and keep looking out for other players. You have at least (in most cases anyways) 20 minutes or more to loot that body. No need to rush it!
  
• Anything else? You will learn from experience, good luck!
  

I like the statement that this makes. I like the tension it creates. I learn something new each time I'm killed (mainly shoot on sight). Though, I'm attracted to this brutality, I don't feel that it is going to be condusive to any sort of long lasting game. Not saying this game won't be out for a while. I'm just saying, for it to have any momentum for progression, some things should probably be tweaked.

Nothing of what you have said so far supports that statement. DayZ is the most popular Mod of all time in any category, with nearly 1.5 million players and still growing rapidly. In the first 3 months it grew to a million users and (reportedly) contributed to 300,000 ArmA 2 sales.

Interest in the mod/game is increasingly high so i am sure the hardcore aspect of it is what actually draws people in. The only thing that would kill the title is if development (adding new features) stops.

Here are some suggestions I see:

1. Create more opportunity for higher geared players to compete against each other:

• Create events that take place on the world map that are catalysts for higher geared player's involvement.
  What would these events be? I sure hope you are not suggesting some sort of arena or instance that players can go to. We already have hot spots where highly geared players meet. (NW airfield, sniper hill north of Elektro, Stary Sobor, helicopters flying about and landing etc)
  And in any other case, large groups of players roam the map looking for other large groups to retaliate for killing one of their members etc. So it occurs naturally all the time.
  
• Create strongholds for players to protect, that spawn loot and also offer storage. In this way, higher geared characters can seige each other. This could create a more complex system of squads/clans that form to protect these strongholds 24/7.
  You mean like the numerous camps put up by groups of players where they store their gear in tents and vehicles? Loot spawn will be revised in the standalone, specifically to prevent loot farming.
  You are suggesting the direct opposite, where a large group of players will set up defenses around a popular spawn point and others would go there to claim that spot for themselves.
  We already have that, NW airfield... If you add another spot with even more/rarer gear it will just shift NW airfield to that particular spot.
  Loot needs to be more randomly distributed, in heli crash sites. Military road blocks and other such places that nobody really knows how to find consistently/easily.
  
• Make a wider range of loot. Right now, it seems once a character gets top gear, the only thing to do is run around and grief people. Again, I don't feel like that adds enough depth for a long lasting game.
  Just because you have all the best gear doesn't mean you just run around and grief other players, there are actually heroes in DayZ. Players who strive to save the less fortunate from their untimely demise or hunt bandits. (players who kill other players)
  Even so, it's highly unlikely that you have EVERYTHING the game has to offer. When you have an AS50 you want a rangefinder, when you have that you want NV goggles. Then you might want to find a GPS, more ammo for your M9SD and perhaps more vehicles, tents and a helicopter. You might be looking for people that want to join up with you/your group. Have some team vs team warfare. Build a reputation etc.
  You don't just "win" the game by finding all the gear and spend the rest of your time shooting every player you see for fun. (Though, a lot of people think this is what the game is all about)
  

2. Improve the AI:

• There should be a reason to kill zombies (skins unlocked for zombie kills or something/better loot)
  Cannot agree with you here. You find better loot on certain zombies already, you need to learn the differences first.
  And there are plenty of reasons to kill zombies. You gain humanity (unlocking the hero skin) and get placed higher on the scoreboard.
  If all else fails, you can always kill zombies if you are bored.
  Though i wish zombies where to become a little bit smarter and more deadly. But that will happen after Rocket gives them better pathfinding so they don't glitch as much as they do now.
  As it is, zombies are just an annoyance and frustrates the hell out of me because they "teleport" around.
  
• Make the AI more complex and consistent.
  

3. Make it easier to group up:

• There should be in game systems that streamline the grouping process.
  This is the only thing i can sort of agree with. If you all die at the same time, at least make it so you can spawn closer together.
  On the downside it really takes away from the risk of dying and the experience of finding each other again. So i am torn on this subject.
  Also add a private channel where you can chat with people you group up with, or simply make it so you can group up in game terms, making the group chat channel have a purpose.
  

4. Increase rewards for player cooperation:

• Most games I've seen, customization is a great way to push players towards a particular behavior. Perhaps a wider range of skins for the good guys? Allow players to add a red cross symbol to their packs etc.. etc..
  This is already coming to some degree. You might not be able to add your clan tags or red crosses but there will be a much wider selection of clothes. If you all wear the same clothes you feel some sort of unity and can recognize eachother easier.
  I don't think the hero/bandit skins are going to stay much longer with the amount of clothing that will be coming.
  There already is a very strong incentive to become a hero, you run much faster! But of course, the moment you kill another player you lose your hero status.
  

I could go on and on. This is just a quick observation from a player that has played similar games to this.

I really think you should get familiar with the game before you do go on.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

For me the massive learning curve is what made DayZ so engaging in the first place.

Without the initial challenge I would never have become so engrossed. Brutality builds character.

Any newcomers will have to get themselves up to speed. It's the way of the world.

Everyone was a n00b at some point.

In terms of longevity, the future will depend largely on the players.

Rocket has said he would like to give us the tools to build a world for ourselves, rather than enforce gameplay scenarios.

There's very little point in thinking long-term based on what we have currently. DayZ has a LOT of growing to do.

Consider the mod as just the very basic skeleton.

[Jimeeh 5]

"DayZ is the most popular Mod of all time in any category"

i know i am probably being pedantic but i believe Dota had 15+ million players at its peak which is a mod of WC3. The creator of said mod "icefrog" got backing from valve and created Dota 2 which is normally peaking at 150-200k concurrent players a day also worth mentioning its still in beta

[plrsniper 87]

"DayZ is the most popular Mod of all time in any category"

i know i am probably being pedantic but i believe Dota had 15+ million players at its peak which is a mod of WC3. The creator of said mod "icefrog" got backing from valve and created Dota 2 which is normally peaking at 150-200k concurrent players a day also worth mentioning its still in beta

Oh yeah i guess you are right. I just don't consider DotA a mod anymore as it's a stand alone game now right?

On a side note, i was thinking in first person shooter terms. But even so, Counter Strike 1.6 probably has DayZ beat still. Not sure.

Either way, DayZ is a VERY popular mod.

[Jimeeh 5]

yeah it is i was just being pedantic but i mean they must of made so much money from dayz cause id never heard of ARMA till i started hearing people rave about dayz and see videos of it on youtube

[GtaSoldierBoy 11]

Noobs come noobs go when they come they learn nothing they are just running blindlessy when they go they are pro players preying on noobs well but i think there should be some other systems in the game such as making ingame clans that you can join and hackers are definetly a problem need a good system to sort them

[dystopeon 46]

once again ALL of these problems, negated by removing 3DP, those guys killing you aren't vets, they just noobs exploit-playing 3DP.

[Bonham (DayZ) 3]

After playing quite a bit lately, I've seen a couple more things.

• Helicopters gridding the map after respawn.
  
  • They are taking heli crashes/planes/vehicles and raiding people's bases
    
  • Do something to fix the ease of seeing these things from long distances.
    
  • Make heli crashes/plane crashes spawn randomly throughout a cycle.
    
  • Increase risk for heli flight. (i.e. random weather effecting controls/flight etc)
    
    • Right now players fly at high levels with little risk, as far as I see.
      

[DemonGroover 8836]

We all started as DayZ Noobs and we all learned via trial and error what you could and shouldn't do in game. To be honest the best times i have ever had in a video game were those first few spawns in DayZ.

The first thing you'll realise is don't go to these highly concentrated areas unless you are well equipped, or like me, you just don't care anymore if you get gunned down or not.

Creep up to some deerstands to get a nice weapon and grab yourself a hatchet - then hit the streets of Cherno.

Good times.