Seperate survival from bullet damage

[wolfstriked 143]

I might mix up some people here so I apologize up front.

Lately I am wondering if having thirst/hunger damage tied in with bullet damage being too much for the blood icon.Lack of food/drink and you start to lose blood and if you get shot you lose blood at set values dependent on individual weapon.Problem with this is that it combines survival and PVP on one icon and I feel that it subtracts from each at same time.If your out surviving and just barely getting by the game is immersive but a weak weapon will kill you with one bullet.Now people will fight back and say to leave as is because its immersive to be on low health and able to be killed by a single pistol bullet.But we now have a game that is based on survival but is setup to make survival very easy to allow the PVP to keep going on by having food galore everywhere and a farm of animals to hunt down.

Told you I would mix you up here. :lol:

Broken bones=morphine

Pain=painkillers

Bleeding=bandage

Bullet wound=medkit

So I propose a new icon that shows a bullet wound and to remove the blood amount player has in the getting shot equation.Getting shot and surviving should not be tied to the amount of blood a player has but Instead be based on a system where the game keeps tabs of damage from a weapon and once you use a medkit your bullet damage resistance gets reset.This allows the mod to drop animal population,food and drink supplies down very low while at same time allowing the PVP to keep playing on.

Blood icon should only take damage in ways listed below.The rates of bloodloss from temp/food/thirst should be severely reduced to allow the lack of supplies to happen. ;)

Get shot you instantly start bleeding and blood loss occurs=bandage(The damage the individual weapon causes determines the rate of bleeding.)

Temp icon flashes blue and bloodloss occurs=get warm

Hunger icon blinks and bloodloss occurs=eat some food

Drink icon blinks and bloodloss occurs=drink something

So you get shot and kill the offender and you bandage up to stop the bleeding.In Dayz you would just cram down as many steaks as you can to bring blood back up to healthy levels or use blood bag.But this causes your survival immersion to instantly stop since blood icon gets reset while you reset your PVP ability.I am proposing that instead of gorging on steaks to reset the PVP ability you instead use a medkit that sutures the wounds,removes the wounded icon from screen and resets your ability to take full 12000 damage.

Finally......the only way to eat is when the hunger icon is blinking.This is needed to prevent the players from just gorging on steaks till blood icon is green.

Immersion wise....your gonna be constantly trying to keep the blood icon as high as possible. :rolleyes: Remember this drops from cold,lack of food and water and how much blood you have lost from bleeding WHILE AT SAME TIME you can only eat food when your hunger icon is blinking.

Edited December 25, 2012 by wolfstriked

[BAHADIR 124]

I didnt read even one word of your topic, but I liked you signature... Have my beans, sorry for disturbing...

[rossums 2190]

Survival and PvP are parts of surviving, of course they will be on the same icon - it's the whole point.

It's NOT a PvP deathmatch game, if you don't eat and drink you will die, it's as simple as that.

Eating/drinking is no challenge whatsoever, if you are totally ignoring it it's your own fault for being a bad player.

DayZ is trying to move AWAY from the use of icons and HUD as much as it can, adding in extra icons is heading in the opposite direction.

[wolfstriked 143]

And I see it will just be overlooked :rolleyes: Surviving should be a game in itself but as you put it yourself "Eating/drinking is no challenge whatsoever, if you are totally ignoring it it's your own fault for being a bad player.". I don't know how to explain it better.

By combining the two you force the survival to not be survival at all.Its food galore and a freaking animal safari park in Dayz and sadly I feel the devs do not know how to fix this. :(

[finkone 320]

Replys in red of what I think...

I might mix up some people here so I apologize up front.

Lately I am wondering if having thirst/hunger damage tied in with bullet damage being too much for the blood icon.Lack of food/drink and you start to lose blood and if you get shot you lose blood at set values dependent on individual weapon.Problem with this is that it combines survival and PVP on one icon and I feel that it subtracts from each at same time.If your out surviving and just barely getting by the game is immersive but a weak weapon will kill you with one bullet.Now people will fight back and say to leave as is because its immersive to be on low health and able to be killed by a single pistol bullet.But we now have a game that is based on survival but is setup to make survival very easy to allow the PVP to keep going on by having food galore everywhere and a farm of animals to hunt down.

Told you I would mix you up here. :lol:

Broken bones=morphine

Pain=painkillers

Bleeding=bandage

Bullet wound=medkit

So I propose a new icon that shows a bullet wound and to remove the blood amount player has in the getting shot equation.Getting shot and surviving should not be tied to the amount of blood a player has but Instead be based on a system where the game keeps tabs of damage from a weapon and once you use a medkit your bullet damage resistance gets reset.This allows the mod to drop animal population,food and drink supplies down very low while at same time allowing the PVP to keep playing on.

Blood icon should only take damage in ways listed below.The rates of bloodloss from temp/food/thirst should be severely reduced to allow the lack of supplies to happen. ;)

Get shot you instantly start bleeding and blood loss occurs=bandage(The damage the individual weapon causes determines the rate of bleeding.)

Temp icon flashes blue and bloodloss occurs=get warm I start to bleed out because I'm cold?

Hunger icon blinks and bloodloss occurs=eat some food I start to loose blood because I haven't eaten in 4 hour period?

Drink icon blinks and bloodloss occurs=drink something This one might be slightly understandable, because water has a more direction relation to blood... but would be a pointless script.

Currently, correct me if I'm wrong... when very hungry, or thristy, your blood already starts to drop... so you are suggesting... things in the game? I'm reading your post wrong maybe.

When I get cold, I have the ability to get sick... which can lower my blood - again.. am I reading wrong? Already in the game?

So you get shot and kill the offender and you bandage up to stop the bleeding.In Dayz you would just cram down as many steaks as you can to bring blood back up to healthy levels or use blood bag.But this causes your survival immersion to instantly stop since blood icon gets reset while you reset your PVP ability.I am proposing that instead of gorging on steaks to reset the PVP ability you instead use a medkit that sutures the wounds,removes the wounded icon from screen and resets your ability to take full 12000 damage.

So instead of 12 steaks I can carry 3 or 4 medkits to use to have my blood instantly returned to 12K - if thats the case I'll be back into the PVP action way faster then with the steaks or a buddy with a blood bag...

Finally......the only way to eat is when the hunger icon is blinking.This is needed to prevent the players from just gorging on steaks till blood icon is green.

So - rather then eat slightly before I gun fight or a sticky situation, I have to wait until my character hits a extreme point of hunger to eat? Sounds like its way off.

Immersion wise....your gonna be constantly trying to keep the blood icon as high as possible. :rolleyes: Remember this drops from cold,lack of food and water and how much blood you have lost from bleeding WHILE AT SAME TIME you can only eat food when your hunger icon is blinking.

I don't loose blood if I'm hungry, or cold, not to mention only being slightly dehydrated will have a short term input on blood.

This wouldn't add any immersion for me at all, this would be annoying. I run into another player, shoot him, he breaks contact, changes his angel, uses a blood kit...

While I'm sweeping for him I start to loose blood because I had to wait until my food or water bar started to blink so I could eat...

I become a stationary target due to lame mechanics of the game...

[dekartz 315]

Seems like a more convoluted version of the current system with "medipaks" added.

I'm all for systems being convoluted when it adds depth but this... Seems to be lacking.

[Bladez 0f Fury 33]

Sounds pointless... Imo. Especially only eating when you are hungry. Maybe you can go overfilled (3 cans after green or two steaks) and that goes into a Blue color (For food Icon) but then returns to normal much quicker than needing to eat (15 minutes of sitting goes back to normal green, or 7 minutes of running). If that is the case, it should take 2 stakes to go back to green and 4 cans of food. (so you can eat a max of 4 stakes or 7 canned foods from being hungry (blinking) to being stuffed (blue icon) But removing my ability to heal myself when playing SOLO sounds like a stupid idea. So Being able to eat 2 steaks every 7 minutes (when running) sounds reasonable but only if they make each stake worth 1k blood since it being 200 blood would take too long to fill your blood back up. Canned food would now be worth 500 blood as well.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Bladez 0f Fury

[wolfstriked 143]

I knew it would confuse. :D Ok,I will try to reply as best I can.

The bloodloss is a gamey mechanic but its all we have in a video game.There is no way currently to simulate what happens from hypothermia,starvation,getting shot in kidney etc.So we have blood loss and we deal with it.Think of the blood icon more as your survival icon.Start to get hypothermia,malnutrition,dehydration,infections etc and your chances of survival get slimmer and slimmer right?

I posted the thirst=bloodloss=drink/hunger=bloodloss=eat...only to show a new icon example of gunshot wound=medkit.

Yes you can carry medkits to allow you to get right back into PVP. Yes this does err the surviving of a bullet wound but it needs to be done to allow the "better survival of the elements" style gameplay.What I am thinking is medkits should be rare like blood bags and also be craft able.Force players to scavenge stuff like rags/thread/needle/peroxide to craft a medkit.Rags can also be used as bandages but with risk of infection compared to medical bandages.

Why eat slightly before a gun fight?The survival icon has nothing to do with your ability to take weapon damage and as long as you do not have a gunshot wound icon showing you can take full 12000 damage.The survival/blood icon only has to do with food/temp/thirst/bleeding.

I guess the best way to show what I mean is if you play Dayz2017.Find a low population server and try to survive........but do not eat until the hunger icon starts blinking.I am constantly at low blood and having to avoid infected due to the inability to gorge on my 12 steaks in my backpack to raise my blood.2017 has way to many animals as they were increased to compensate for the lack of canned foods but the dev is fixing this.

Edited December 25, 2012 by wolfstriked

[wolfstriked 143]

Sounds pointless... Imo. Especially only eating when you are hungry. Maybe you can go overfilled (3 cans after green or two steaks) and that goes into a Blue color (For food Icon) but then returns to normal much quicker than needing to eat (15 minutes of sitting goes back to normal green, or 7 minutes of running). If that is the case, it should take 2 stakes to go back to green and 4 cans of food. But removing my ability to heal myself when playing SOLO sounds like a stupid idea. So Being able to eat 2 steaks every 7 minutes (when running) sounds reasonable but only if they make each stake worth 1k blood since it being 200 blood would take too long to fill your blood back up. Canned food would now be worth 500 blood as well.

You only need a medpak to be fully PVP capable again.Scavenge supplies to craft one of raid a hospital.The food part is just to keep from dying due to the blood icon blinking.

[Bladez 0f Fury 33]

You only need a medpak to be fully PVP capable again.Scavenge supplies to craft one of raid a hospital.The food part is just to keep from dying due to the blood icon blinking.

Well that just takes the fun out of going solo is not being able to heal yourself! (which is fair enough) I'm not all for the whole "Bullet" damage as I think thats why we have bandages and the blood icon in the first place :P I just feel its redundant.

[dekartz 315]

Also, if you're starving and suffering from a gunshot wound you're likely to die faster than if you were just suffering from a gunshot wound (or just starving).

The two being tied together make more sense than a separate system for "damage from being shot"

[wolfstriked 143]

You are trying to understand my point and I thank you.Survival is non existent in Dayz.Lets see what the SA brings but I think it will just be the same....food/drinks/animals galore but now with more things to worry about.Finding meds for the various infections will be great but doesn't mean that they shouldn't fix the issue of needing food and drink to be plentiful to allow PVP......once again this diminishes survival.This is my point here,the excessive amounts of food and drink diminish the survival but are needed to allow PVP.Other wise with Dayz with no people shooting at you survival would be the main game immersion and right now its broken.