Willing to give this game another chance

[Brockavich 0]

Hello.

A little backstory would be appropriate. Please read all of it before you get upset.

Earlier this year, months ago, probably in June/July, I was convinced by several friends to try this new game called DayZ. I'm a massive fan of the STALKER series of games, with their very moody survival vibe, and I liked zombies, so I gave it a go. It looked like no other zombie game I'd ever seen.

However, when I downloaded ARMAII and all that jazz, I was barely able to get the mod working, even with my friends guiding me through it on teamspeak. Just trying to join a game without it giving me an error was next to impossible. But I perservered, and eventually found servers that worked, and played a few games.

To sum it up, my experience with the mod was horrendus. There were so many flaws I almost immediately wrote it off as a piece of crap.

-The game runs pitifully on my machine, which by the way is armed with a GTX680 and modern guts. I would get maybe 30FPS if I was lucky.

-Every 2nd building I entered, a zombie would clip through the wall and kill me

-The animations of the zombies were odd and really jittery. Sometimes they would simply stand there, fidgeting, and I'd get hit.

-I'm no stranger to games with a steep learning curve, but I found the game desperately needed some kind of basic tutorial/explanation of how it's played (as in what the guages do and how the inventory works)

-I thought, and frankly still think the inventory system is the most clunky thing I've ever seen and sucks balls.

-The zombie AI is really odd. I can be prone not moving, 20 meters away in grass, and a zombie who isn't even looking at me will agro and charge me.

-The axe/melee was so broken I was stunned. I could stand in front of a zombie, and whack him 3-5 times in the head, and he wouldn't even flinch. Not only that, but in a game that's trying to realistic, I found it unbelievably stupid that there weren't melee weapons everywhere. In a real life zombie apocalypse, I'm pretty sure you would tear a random plank of wood off a house, or pick up a large tree branch to crack skulls with, or any blunt object really.

-I found it very strange how my guy could keep running practically forever, in a game who is trying to be realistic.

-The fact that I had to open a steam ingame browser to look up a map so I could coordinate with my pals so we could meet up and play.

These, among other things, really broke the experience for me, and I didn't go back to it. However, there were many things I liked, such as

-The overwhelming feeling of hostility and being alone, really felt like a zombie apocalypse

-The graphics are pretty, if a little bloomy and muddy at times

-Very difficult, although sometimes for the wrong reasons

-The world is HUGE

When I learned that the game was still an alpha/beta, and that most of the flaws were due to ARMA II's engine, and that a standalone was on its way, I was a little more excited. This was when I learned of WarZ.

While WarZ has its own share of entirely different issues, such as hackers, sketchy business/customer service, rampant player killing, lack of zombies, it does improve a lot of the things that I had an issue with in DayZ. Such as zombie clipping (although sometimes they do weird shit), the inventory system is 1000x better, the game didn't ever crash for me, and it ran a lot smoother and the atmosphere at night is absolutely fantastic and spooky.

Now, alot has been unsaid, and both games are still unfinished and unpolished and have lots of wrinkles to iron out, so please let me be clear, this is NOT a DayZ x WarZ rant thread. There are redeeming factors to both. I was simply offering my personal perspective so you can better understand my question:

With all of the shady stuff around WarZ going on, and the fact that it right now feels like any other FPS (as in, "there are people out to kill you and there are also zombies", whereas a ZOMBIE game should be the opposite), I am willing to give this game another go.

Have any of the things I mentioned improved currently? Better yet, is the standalone of DayZ going to be much better? Will I have to pay for that too?

I thank anyone who has anything intelligent to say in regards to my question. Thanks a bunch.

~~~~~~~

PS: Inb4 "You just suck at DayZ"

-I've played much harder games than DayZ.

"You don't know what you're talking about"

-The main thing here is that these are things I experienced, so you can't tell me what I experienced and what I didn't. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure I can objectively judge a game reasonably well, as I do know what I'm talking about, being a PC gamer for nearly 20 years.

"This is all wrong and you should die in a fire with your mom and dad" etc.

-No.

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

Started reading at Stalker stopped reading at whoreZ.

intelligent comment- Unavailable.

Welcome back to your first post.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Steak and Potatoes

[Darkwater (DayZ) 63]

Yes, since June/July, the game has been improved. I cannot say as much about the resources the game requires as it seems to be very heavy still, but it might have been improved slightly. The inventory system hasn't really been improved since then, so it's basically the same but it really is easy once you get a hang of it. Most bugs that existed back in June are still existing to some degree today, but it's really not as bad in general.

The SA will be much, much, much better on every level. The inventory system will be redone. AI improved. Zombies will be fixed. Houses will be opened (by that I mean all of them will be open for entrance). And yes, you will have to pay for it, however it won't be a full priced game, and by that I mean in the 30+ range.

[rossums 2190]

You are expecting something that is literally impossible with the engine.

The animations from zombies and axe, etc are so retardedly broken because they have to use animations already in Arma II - an engine clearly not made for a zombie game.

Everything, literally EVERYTHING you complain about is a limitation of the engine or you just being stupid.

Every point is down to it being a mod, a buggy mod at that (in Alpha) with a very limiting engine, but the last one, complaining about a map?

If you want a map, go find a map.

It's not meant to be easy. You're not meant to be handed a map and encouraged to go find your friends.

So I'm going to break your 'inB4' and just say it: you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

You should wait for the standalone DayZ - none of these problems will be fixed or can be fixed without significant development work which will just not happen with the standalone incoming.

[intensity (DayZ) 312]

Sometimes when I read about people's bad experiences with dayz I really wonder wtf. I must have been really lucky because my framerate doesnt go below 30 and I have 460. Sometimes it stutters for a sec but I got used to it and it doesnt happen often. Zooming however was always a bit of a problem I got used to it.

Weird zombie behaviour? Again, got used to it and figured them out rather quickly. Didn't know the tree/bush trick until rather late though.

Gear problems? Maybe on my first day yes, it's more akin to rpg inv but it didn't pose a problem after the first day. I watched a movie that explained it in brief and I was sweet.

Realism vs gameplay? I dunno, but I find it balanced between aspects that need to be very realistic (weapons) and some realistic enough (food, water, sprinting)

I didnt really care about any more melee weapons, because they are mostly the same. Would it really change the game all that much if they added a sword or a club? Oh yeah we already pretty much have the equivelent of that.

People complaining that the game is too hard or they don't know where they are going etc... That's the fucking point of the game! If you are struggling with that then play something else. On the other hand there seems to be a lot of ppl like this, hence all these servers with survival gear at spawn.

Edited December 23, 2012 by intensity

[jaymacca 52]

Pretty much the same, it's tolerable - now this is where you confuse me, you state that you're no stranger to difficult learning curves, yet proceed to point out a lack of tutorial in DayZ? As for the melee animations, I agree, but you have to remember it's limited my the Arma II engine and as far as I know it's because those melee weapons that are in DayZ were created my the mod developer and had to use shortened bullet drop effects to simulate to the best of his ability a melee weapon, there simply was/is no other way, regular ArmA II doesn't have melee weapons.

As for The WarZ you have to remember that HP Interactive are charging for this game, so to be perfectly honest you should be more critical, in fact, you're way to lenient, if you're going to list the problems with dayz, then you should realistically be doing the same with WarZ, like walking down slopes for instance hurting/killing you (something that used to be a hellish problem with dayZ), the short 5-10 second sprint burst (isn't the back story a military background for one of these character types?), horrible gun play - you are essentially being charged every step of the way for literally a sloppy re-skin of War Inc and no matter how or what you say, the company involved are a bunch of liars more than ready and willing to punish their own community for descent and run off with their money, blacklist and ban you and outright call you wrong and say that you "misread" what they wrote (this apple is still and orange kids)

[OrLoK 16188]

Hello there

Do not expect a massive transformation from the existing mod to the SA.

That isn't to say that there wont be many many fixes and improvements, but the OP is mainly complaining about some of the engines inherent issues, rather than issues "caused" by the mod.

Hopefully the dev team can sort issues like AI collision etc, but there's bound to be some legacy issues.

Is it worth playing the game again?

Well, why not try for yourself? You own the game and can simply, download the mod. Install the thing and give it a whirl.

Will the SA be the panacea of all gaming? Who knows? You'll find out when we do.

Rgds

LoK

[purepassion 383]

Hey Brockavich

The main problem with the DayZ mod was that it was indeed nothing but a guys idea and his first attempts of getting some of these ideas into the game. Its actual success has never been planned when the creator, Dean Hall, initially published it. That's why there is no guide/tutorial or anything like that. It was meant for the Arma community and thus, no guide was needed. At that time, it was not evident that these idea were genius and millions of people will love them.

Many of these problems you mentioned originate from this very problem. As there is no melee in the original game the mod is based on (The military tactic shooter Arma 2:Combined Operations), the stuff you currently see in the DayZ mod is basically just a "hack". It was not possible for the mod to implement a new and proper melee system so it was just a invisible gun with a custom animation and limited range.

The zombie animations, while being mo-capped, were screwed up because their speed values have been changed without adapting the rest of it as well. This is also the reason for much of the clipping. Same goes for the new zombie detection/smell system. Much of that was broken for a long time.

Though I am not sure what you mean when you say it's unrealistic for the character to keep running. There is a stamina system which has severe impact on your aiming etc. Sprinting is only available for a limited distance. After that, the character will continue with the normal jog. Same goes for the map. Perhaps you didn't know you were actually supposed to find one ingame?

The current inventory system from the original game is not suited for DayZ. While it is surely not a big hassle once you're familiar with it, it's not good for DayZ.

And be careful when you say the engine is limiting DayZ. It's actually not. The tailored use of the engine, in that case Arma 2 is but the engine itself is giving it an phenomenal freedom which can be used by the Standalone.

From the point on that it has been decided to give DayZ its proper game and branch of the engine, it was possible to remove many of these limitations the mod has to fight with.

The multiplayer structure is changed to make it more safe from hackers, there is a completely new inventory system, zombies and animations can be reworked, the game can be properly optimized etc etc..

While it will surely still take some time and effort to solve all issues, the freedom the standalone offers is hardly comparable with the limitations of a mod.

And yes, you bought Arma 2:Combined Operations. DayZ will be a new game you'll have to buy.

Edited December 23, 2012 by PurePassion

[BearGravy 53]

The game is better, from what I read you were mad of the clipping through walls zombies, getting them agro easy, inventory, along with the hatchet not being so well. Basically you thought the game was crap. Well to put it plainly the game is crap because it is still in alpha, but it has progressed since then.

- I believe the inventory is perfectly fine. It could be slow at times, but still good. It's like resident evils inventory system.

- The hatchet is one hit to zombies now.

- no more zombie clippings.

- Remember this is a mod so they have to work with what they got. The reason why the zombies are sort of wanky is because they had to take the characteristics of the soldiers. You can see while they run up to you they zig zag. They also had to add in the hitting animation for zombies, so it does look weird.

- Not only that but the tutorial is in the regular ARMA 2. Just play the tutorials in the game on it's own.

- As for the server problems, get DayZ Commander. There are many filters, user friendly, and very easy to use.

I hope you enjoy the game after learning all that. If not, to each his own I guess.

[Brockavich 0]

I know about the ingame map, but if you have to find it...? That's meh. In a game where you have to survive, and often work together that just seems silly. That's more of a pet peeve I guess.

In regards to the sprint: yeah I was able to run from a single zombie for 15 minutes straight. That seems quite odd to me. A jog, sure, but a full out sprint?

Yes, I'm no stranger to difficult learning curves, but even in the most rootimentary and hardest of games, there's at least SOME explanation, not necessarily a full fledged tutorial. I was talking about STALKER earlier, take that for example. That game is quite hard, out of the dozen friends I know who've played it, they'll all say so at one point. But even that game has a brief tooltip that just quickly goes over what your items/inventory are about, and a few ingame characters that explain the basics etc. I've played a lot of sim games in the mid-late 90s, and those were the kind of games with a 200 page manual to explain it all, but ingame there were a few brief explanations. I'm not talking about DIS IS WHERE YOU FIND LOOT, AND YOU KILL ZOMBIES BY HIT DEM IN HEAD DERP, but just a little info as to how bleeding, shock, your food/water works, and the rather messy inventory. But if the idea is that I'm supposed to be an ARMAII player, well that kind of nullifies it. It's like was stated, it was just one guy's idea, and didn't expect the mod to become retardedly popular.

I realize why the axe is what it is, the same friend who introduced it to me explained it to me. If it's true that it actually has decent hit detection now, that's great.

To the person stating I was too "lenient" with WarZ, I already stated that WarZ has it's own set of issues. However you apparently didn't read the part in caps where it said this is NOT a DayZ x WarZ rant thread. "While WarZ has its own share of entirely different issues, such as hackers, sketchy business/customer service,...". They're both in Alpha/beta and both unfinished, so there's almost no point in comparing them, as they're changing, rapidly. If I wanted to talk about this, the thread would be called WarZ x Dayz or something. Thanks.

To the person recommending DayZ commander: That wouldn't work either. I think we ended up googling and kinda sorta got it to work. I was able to join 20-30% of same version servers. Maybe it's just me.

~~~~~

So, it seems to me the standalone is the thing to wait for. Will it also be on the ARMAII engine? I read up a bit and it seems not, which is great. A lot of you either ignored it, or feel like repeating me but I'm quite aware most of the flaws are due to ARMAII's engine. I wasn't asking WHY, I was asking if they've improved. Apparently you didn't seem to grasp that.

But $30 isn't bad. Heck, if it fixes everything wrong with it atm, I'd pay $60 for it. I guess I'll keep my peepers peeled, and in the meantime, see if the mod works any better like you folks say.

For the record, a lot of you seemed under the impression that I hate this game. I don't, it's just when I tried it, it was one of the most unpolished games I'd ever played. Learning it was alpha/beta/still being worked on eliminated that gripe. The idea of the game is brilliant, and a can of air freshener in a gaming scene with Crap of Duty and mediocre, waypoint following, regenerating health rail shooters are the norm. It's just what I experienced did not live up to the hype.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Brockavich

[babydoc (DayZ) 96]

I understand what you are saying but did you forget that this is an alpha?

Bust damn alpha I ever played but still an alpha.

Edited December 23, 2012 by babydoc

[TheDesigner 1197]

We missed you, person who no one ever knew!

[kumando 199]

it was one of the most unpolished games I'd ever played

Let me break this to you, it is not a game its a mod of a game called Arma II hence so many bugs and glitches.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Kumando

[colekern 1364]

I know about the ingame map, but if you have to find it...? That's meh. In a game where you have to survive, and often work together that just seems silly. That's more of a pet peeve I guess.

In regards to the sprint: yeah I was able to run from a single zombie for 15 minutes straight. That seems quite odd to me. A jog, sure, but a full out sprint?

Yes, I'm no stranger to difficult learning curves, but even in the most rootimentary and hardest of games, there's at least SOME explanation, not necessarily a full fledged tutorial. I was talking about STALKER earlier, take that for example. That game is quite hard, out of the dozen friends I know who've played it, they'll all say so at one point. But even that game has a brief tooltip that just quickly goes over what your items/inventory are about, and a few ingame characters that explain the basics etc. I've played a lot of sim games in the mid-late 90s, and those were the kind of games with a 200 page manual to explain it all, but ingame there were a few brief explanations. I'm not talking about DIS IS WHERE YOU FIND LOOT, AND YOU KILL ZOMBIES BY HIT DEM IN HEAD DERP, but just a little info as to how bleeding, shock, your food/water works, and the rather messy inventory. But if the idea is that I'm supposed to be an ARMAII player, well that kind of nullifies it. It's like was stated, it was just one guy's idea, and didn't expect the mod to become retardedly popular.

I realize why the axe is what it is, the same friend who introduced it to me explained it to me. If it's true that it actually has decent hit detection now, that's great.

To the person stating I was too "lenient" with WarZ, I already stated that WarZ has it's own set of issues. However you apparently didn't read the part in caps where it said this is NOT a DayZ x WarZ rant thread. "While WarZ has its own share of entirely different issues, such as hackers, sketchy business/customer service,...". They're both in Alpha/beta and both unfinished, so there's almost no point in comparing them, as they're changing, rapidly. If I wanted to talk about this, the thread would be called WarZ x Dayz or something. Thanks.

To the person recommending DayZ commander: That wouldn't work either. I think we ended up googling and kinda sorta got it to work. I was able to join 20-30% of same version servers. Maybe it's just me.

~~~~~

So, it seems to me the standalone is the thing to wait for. Will it also be on the ARMAII engine? I read up a bit and it seems not, which is great. A lot of you either ignored it, or feel like repeating me but I'm quite aware most of the flaws are due to ARMAII's engine. I wasn't asking WHY, I was asking if they've improved. Apparently you didn't seem to grasp that.

But $30 isn't bad. Heck, if it fixes everything wrong with it atm, I'd pay $60 for it. I guess I'll keep my peepers peeled, and in the meantime, see if the mod works any better like you folks say.

For the record, a lot of you seemed under the impression that I hate this game. I don't, it's just when I tried it, it was one of the most unpolished games I'd ever played. Learning it was alpha/beta/still being worked on eliminated that gripe. The idea of the game is brilliant, and a can of air freshener in a gaming scene with Crap of Duty and mediocre, waypoint following, regenerating health rail shooters are the norm. It's just what I experienced did not live up to the hype.

Wait for the standalone. Basically, it will be running on a similar engine to Arma 2. The difference is that the way multiplayer works is being re-done, the inventory is being re-done, the zombies are being fixed, the controls are being completely re-done, the animations are being slightly modified, pretty much every building will be enterable, bla bla bla....

All of that will come in the initial alpha release for around $15. The planned features are:

*Better optimization

*Underground base building.

*terrain and building deformation

*More weapons

*Above ground base building

*More items and content

So yeah, there's a lot coming in standalone. Pretty much every issue you said was caused by Arma. The stuff in Arma was great for Arma, but not so great for a zombie game.

Oh yeah, your original question!!!

No, nothing's really been improved as of now.

Edited December 23, 2012 by colekern